Antenna Question

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
31 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Antenna Question

Vic Rosenthal
SOME 'junk' PL259s are fine. If there are problems with the threads you
will know right away. I have had some that are plated with something
that won't take solder, or which have plastic insulation that melts when
you solder the center pin. But again, you will know this right away.

SO239s and barrels may have contact tension problems that take awhile to
manifest themselves. And elbows and Ts can have internal issues (like
the famous elbows with little springs to join the two parts). For these,
only Amphenol or mil-spec will do.

Having said all this, just before I moved here, I ordered a bunch of
Amphenol connectors, including the PL259s.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 11 Oct 2016 11:38, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Mon,10/10/2016 4:49 PM, Josh Fiden wrote:
>> If you're concerned about the additional loss of a barrel connector at
>> 50MHz, you should be using feedline with lower loss than LMR400 up the
>> tower.
>
> The loss in GOOD quality UHF connectors and barrels at 50 MHz is
> negligible. There are urban legends (false, as usual) claiming that
> every connector loses a dB. The grain of truth is that JUNK connectors
> may introduce significant loss, but GOOD connectors and barrels do NOT.
> "Good" means Amphenol 83-1SP for the PL-259s, and Amphenol or surplus
> MIL-spec for the barrels.
>
> Several years ago, I made up more than a dozen 100 ft cables using a
> cable of somewhat better construction than LMR400 (Commscope 3227) for a
> DX trip. The connectors were Amphenol 83-1SP that I soldered myself. To
> test those cables, I spliced them together using Amphenol barrels and
> measured the loss of about 1300 ft of cable up to 500 MHz using HP
> generator and spectrum analyzer. The measured loss was LESS than the
> manufacturer's spec. There were 27 83-1SPs and 13 barrels in line.
>
> JUNK connectors are the shiny,unbranded stuff you see at ham flea
> markets, and sold online and in ham magazines.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Antenna Question

Charlie T, K3ICH
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
I'm curious as to exactly why a "junk" connector supposedly has so much more
loss than a "good" connector?

They're probably both (nickel, silver ???) plated brass with a dielectric
insulator usually Teflon,  phenolic or ??

Is it the plating, the insulator, the fit of the threads, the
solder-ability, or what, that makes the lossy?

I can understand it if the dimensions are way off or they don't thread on
properly, but that should be obvious in the installation process.

Not trying to start a fight or insult anyone.


73, Charlie k3ICH

 




______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Antenna Question

riese-k3djc
In reply to this post by Harlan Sherriff

a much better good connector that prople think

Bob K3DJC


On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 09:29:19 -0400 "Charlie T, K3ICH" <[hidden email]>
writes:
> I'm curious as to exactly why a "junk" connector supposedly has so
> much more
> loss than a "good" connector?
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Antenna Question

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH
On Tue,10/11/2016 6:29 AM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:
> I'm curious as to exactly why a "junk" connector supposedly has so much more loss than a "good" connector?

Junk connectors have several issues. One of the issues is control of
dimensions -- the diameter of the tip must be "right" to make a solid
and reliable connection to the mating connector. I've seen junk barrels,
tees, and elbows that had a tiny spring between the ends of the connector.

When I got back on the air in 2003, I stocked my "junk box" with a lot
of these cheap connector adapters at ham flea markets, and over the next
3-5 years, they caused outright failures and intermittent problems that
were difficult to track down. At one point, I had added elbow connectors
in my shack to make cable routing cleaner. An hour into a contest
running legal limit, I saw SWR going sky high on an antenna, found the
elbow very hot to the touch. Removing it solved the problem. The tiny
spring had overheated. I've had these junk connectors fall apart
mechanically. I've had the dielectric in junk PL-259s melt when I
soldered the center conductor. And so on.

W3LPL advises to use Amphenol connectors exclusively, and to use only
83-1SP for PL-259s. I strongly agree with him. I know nothing about
what's available in EU -- my comments apply to North America.


73, Jim K9YC


______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Antenna Question

Josh Fiden
In reply to this post by Nr4c
Cable mount female UHF is an oddball and expensive. To avoid barrels, I
use type N female cable mount which are common.

73,
Josh W6XU

On 10/11/2016 3:52 AM, Nr4c wrote:
> Why use barrels?  Doesn't Amphenol or Pastornack make a female UHF connector to put on cable end.  For this specific use, a custom  built cable seems appropriate.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Antenna Question

Mark Tosiello
In reply to this post by John Parker
Here's what I use for the run up the mast to my HexBeam. The center
conductor is stranded copper, and the jacket is thermoplastic elastomer.
MUCH more flexible than standard LMR-400...thus, the name LMR-400 UltraFlex:

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/tmv-lmr-400ultra

I have a run going up the mast support forming a loop at the HexBeam. About
25 feet of a run of 250 feet of standard LMR-400. Barrel connectors cause
negligible signal loss. Connection is protected by internal "Stuff"
application, and externally by Coax-Seal.

Mark KD8EDC

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:37 PM, John Parker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There is a stranded center conductor version of the LM400, do not remember
> what the designation is. I plan to use some for the same reason, going
> around a rotor to a HexBeam.
> 73, John WB4UHCK3 #2165
>
>     On Monday, October 10, 2016 6:16 PM, "[hidden email]" <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>  OK all. I'm installing a 6m rotating beam and feeding it with LMR400.
> Would you connect the LMR to the antenna and allow it to move with the
> rotation, or run a short length of something much more flexible between the
> antenna and LMR? I have my concerns that the solid heavy inner conductor of
> the LMR won't take much movement.
>
> Harlan
> K4HES
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Antenna Question

Dave G3WGN M6O
In reply to this post by Josh Fiden
Not oddball in EU, nor expensive.  Good quality ones are available from Kabel-Kusch in Germany and Barenco in UK: http://www.barenco.co.uk/uhf-line-socket-so239-jacks-rg213-clamp-top-hat-compression-body-solder-pin-165425.  China RF do some good ones via Fleabay too.
We use these extensively in our 6Gs DXpeditions, together with compression type PL259s.  A side benefit is that it's easy to terminate the coax feed from multiple station in female connectors (forming a 'patch panel' in effect) so there is zero risk of cross-coupling 2 stations.  
My own station has mostly been converted to compression types; but there are Amphenols in there too.  Motivation to change? Ease of waterproofing the compression types.
Just my 2 pence/2c,
73, David G3WGN M6O WJ6O


Josh Fiden wrote
Cable mount female UHF is an oddball and expensive. To avoid barrels, I
use type N female cable mount which are common.

73,
Josh W6XU

On 10/11/2016 3:52 AM, Nr4c wrote:
> Why use barrels?  Doesn't Amphenol or Pastornack make a female UHF connector to put on cable end.  For this specific use, a custom  built cable seems appropriate.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Antenna Question

David Cutter
I bought a batch of Barenco 259s amongst others and I am mightily impressed,
very chunky, very smooth and not expensive.

David, G3UNA

>
>     On 11 October 2016 at 22:50 Dave G3WGN M6O <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>     Not oddball in EU, nor expensive. Good quality ones are available from
>     Kabel-Kusch in Germany and Barenco in UK:
>
>    http://www.barenco.co.uk/uhf-line-socket-so239-jacks-rg213-clamp-top-hat-compression-body-solder-pin-165425.
>     China RF do some good ones via Fleabay too.
>     We use these extensively in our 6Gs DXpeditions, together with compression
>     type PL259s. A side benefit is that it's easy to terminate the coax feed
>     from multiple station in female connectors (forming a 'patch panel' in
>     effect) so there is zero risk of cross-coupling 2 stations.
>     My own station has mostly been converted to compression types; but there
> are
>     Amphenols in there too. Motivation to change? Ease of waterproofing the
>     compression types.
>     Just my 2 pence/2c,
>     73, David G3WGN M6O WJ6O
>
>
>
>     Josh Fiden wrote
>     > Cable mount female UHF is an oddball and expensive. To avoid barrels, I
>     > use type N female cable mount which are common.
>     >
>     > 73,
>     > Josh W6XU
>     >
>     > On 10/11/2016 3:52 AM, Nr4c wrote:
>     >> Why use barrels? Doesn't Amphenol or Pastornack make a female UHF
>     >> connector to put on cable end. For this specific use, a custom built
>     >> cable seems appropriate.
>     >
>     > ______________________________________________________________
>     > Elecraft mailing list
>     > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     > Post: mailto:
>
>     > Elecraft@.qth
>
>     >
>     > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>     > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>     > Message delivered to
>
>     > lists+1215531472858-365791@.nabble
>
>
>
>
>
>     --
>     View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Antenna-Question-tp7623210p7623260.html
>     Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>     ______________________________________________________________
>     Elecraft mailing list
>     Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>     This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>     Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>     Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Antenna Question

Richard Fjeld-2
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
(I am trying to get caught up on my email. Forgive me if this has been closed.)

This caught my eye, and I agree.  I have found when buying PL-259's that are made in a 'metric' country, there can be slight problems converting to the dimensions used in North America.

I have chased SWR troubles almost in circles only to find the tip of an imported PL-259 was making intermittent contact with the SO-239 socket.  A simple fix was to apply a bit of solder to the tip and then file it down until I could feel a gentle friction as I plugged it into the socket.

Another important item in a PL-259 is a good tinned surface for soldering.  I like the so called 'silver plated' plugs when I can find them.  I don't know if they are truly silver plated, but they do take solder beautifully.

Dick, n0ce


On 10/11/2016 11:36 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
On Tue,10/11/2016 6:29 AM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:
I'm curious as to exactly why a "junk" connector supposedly has so much more loss than a "good" connector?

Junk connectors have several issues. One of the issues is control of dimensions -- the diameter of the tip must be "right" to make a solid and reliable connection to the mating connector. I've seen junk barrels, tees, and elbows that had a tiny spring between the ends of the connector.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Antenna Question

G3XVR
In reply to this post by David Cutter
Hi David.

Thanks for the information. I ordered some compression PL259s and SO239s yesterday direct from Barenco, and they arrived this morning, at a fraction of the cost I last paid from a retail Ham supplier. They look quite chunky with protective caps on the end, which I would not expect from a cheap manufacturer.  I can at last get rid of the SO239 barrels that have given me intermittent problems on my long co-ax cables.

Regards,

Danny, G3XVR

From: CUTTER DAVID
Sent: 12 October 2016 09:17
To: Dave G3WGN M6O; elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Question

I bought a batch of Barenco 259s amongst others and I am mightily impressed,
very chunky, very smooth and not expensive.

David, G3UNA

>
>     On 11 October 2016 at 22:50 Dave G3WGN M6O <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>     Not oddball in EU, nor expensive. Good quality ones are available from
>     Kabel-Kusch in Germany and Barenco in UK:
>
>    http://www.barenco.co.uk/uhf-line-socket-so239-jacks-rg213-clamp-top-hat-compression-body-solder-pin-165425.
>     China RF do some good ones via Fleabay too.
>     We use these extensively in our 6Gs DXpeditions, together with compression
>     type PL259s. A side benefit is that it's easy to terminate the coax feed
>     from multiple station in female connectors (forming a 'patch panel' in
>     effect) so there is zero risk of cross-coupling 2 stations.
>     My own station has mostly been converted to compression types; but there
> are
>     Amphenols in there too. Motivation to change? Ease of waterproofing the
>     compression types.
>     Just my 2 pence/2c,
>     73, David G3WGN M6O WJ6O
>
>
>
>     Josh Fiden wrote
>     > Cable mount female UHF is an oddball and expensive. To avoid barrels, I
>     > use type N female cable mount which are common.
>     >
>     > 73,
>     > Josh W6XU
>     >
>     > On 10/11/2016 3:52 AM, Nr4c wrote:
>     >> Why use barrels? Doesn't Amphenol or Pastornack make a female UHF
>     >> connector to put on cable end. For this specific use, a custom built
>     >> cable seems appropriate.
>     >
>     > ______________________________________________________________
>     > Elecraft mailing list
>     > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     > Post: mailto:
>
>     > Elecraft@.qth
>
>     >
>     > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>     > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>     > Message delivered to
>
>     > lists+1215531472858-365791@.nabble
>
>
>
>
>
>     --
>     View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Antenna-Question-tp7623210p7623260.html
>     Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>     ______________________________________________________________
>     Elecraft mailing list
>     Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>     This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>     Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>     Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Antenna Question

Dave G3WGN M6O
Danny,
Glad you like them.
Maybe I need to start a ‘no barrel connectors’ group ;-)
73, David G3WGN  M6O

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 13 October 2016 09:52
To: CUTTER DAVID <[hidden email]>; David Aslin G3WGN <[hidden email]>; elecraft <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Antenna Question

Hi David.

Thanks for the information. I ordered some compression PL259s and SO239s yesterday direct from Barenco, and they arrived this morning, at a fraction of the cost I last paid from a retail Ham supplier. They look quite chunky with protective caps on the end, which I would not expect from a cheap manufacturer.  I can at last get rid of the SO239 barrels that have given me intermittent problems on my long co-ax cables.

Regards,

Danny, G3XVR

From: CUTTER DAVID<mailto:[hidden email]>
Sent: 12 October 2016 09:17
To: Dave G3WGN M6O<mailto:[hidden email]>; elecraft<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna Question

I bought a batch of Barenco 259s amongst others and I am mightily impressed,
very chunky, very smooth and not expensive.

David, G3UNA

>
>     On 11 October 2016 at 22:50 Dave G3WGN M6O <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>
>     Not oddball in EU, nor expensive. Good quality ones are available from
>     Kabel-Kusch in Germany and Barenco in UK:
>
>    http://www.barenco.co.uk/uhf-line-socket-so239-jacks-rg213-clamp-top-hat-compression-body-solder-pin-165425.
>     China RF do some good ones via Fleabay too.
>     We use these extensively in our 6Gs DXpeditions, together with compression
>     type PL259s. A side benefit is that it's easy to terminate the coax feed
>     from multiple station in female connectors (forming a 'patch panel' in
>     effect) so there is zero risk of cross-coupling 2 stations.
>     My own station has mostly been converted to compression types; but there
> are
>     Amphenols in there too. Motivation to change? Ease of waterproofing the
>     compression types.
>     Just my 2 pence/2c,
>     73, David G3WGN M6O WJ6O
>
>
>
>     Josh Fiden wrote
>     > Cable mount female UHF is an oddball and expensive. To avoid barrels, I
>     > use type N female cable mount which are common.
>     >
>     > 73,
>     > Josh W6XU
>     >
>     > On 10/11/2016 3:52 AM, Nr4c wrote:
>     >> Why use barrels? Doesn't Amphenol or Pastornack make a female UHF
>     >> connector to put on cable end. For this specific use, a custom built
>     >> cable seems appropriate.
>     >
>     > ______________________________________________________________
>     > Elecraft mailing list
>     > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     > Post: mailto:
>
>     > Elecraft@.qth<mailto:Elecraft@.qth>
>
>     >
>     > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>     > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>     > Message delivered to
>
>     > lists+1215531472858-365791@.nabble<mailto:lists+1215531472858-365791@.nabble>
>
>
>
>
>
>     --
>     View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Antenna-Question-tp7623210p7623260.html
>     Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>     ______________________________________________________________
>     Elecraft mailing list
>     Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>     This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>     Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>     Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
12