Any way to automatically bypass K3 ATU when using KPA500?

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Any way to automatically bypass K3 ATU when using KPA500?

Don Putnick-2
Just out of curiosity, any particular reason you want to bypass the K3 ATU?

Don NA6Z
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Re: Any way to automatically bypass K3 ATU when using KPA500?

Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Don Putnick <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, any particular reason you want to bypass the K3 ATU?

Presumably because any stored match settings would be impertinent when
feeding the amp, vs. feeding the antenna(e) directly.

The real question is; why would you ever want to operate without the
amp?? *grin*

    ~iain / N6ML
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Re: Any way to automatically bypass K3 ATU when using KPA500?

Keith Trinity WE6R
If you have the optional Aux cable, set the K3 power set to "Per Band",
then you can have different power levels depending on the OPerat or
Stndby mode of the KPA500. You will just have to go thru once and set
the levels to get 500 out (and whatever you want for Stndby).
The KAT3 is never really bypassed, it is just put into default settings
that are matched for a dummy load.
I would tune the ATU into the amp and leave it on.
Keith WE6R

On 6/14/2012 10:00 AM, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Don Putnick<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Just out of curiosity, any particular reason you want to bypass the K3 ATU?
> Presumably because any stored match settings would be impertinent when
> feeding the amp, vs. feeding the antenna(e) directly.
>
> The real question is; why would you ever want to operate without the
> amp?? *grin*
>
>      ~iain / N6ML
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Re: Any way to automatically bypass K3 ATU when using KPA500?

Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2
I think you're missing the point, Keith ... or maybe I am. If you tune
the KAT3 to match the amp, then it will not match the antenna when the
amp is out of line. Of course this somewhat begs the question; how is
the antenna being matched when the amp is active? Maybe it's close to
2:1, which is still acceptable, but the original poster wants to use
the KAT3 to get a better match when operating barefoot...

73,

    ~iain / N6ML



On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Keith <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If you have the optional Aux cable, set the K3 power set to "Per Band",
> then you can have different power levels depending on the OPerat or
> Stndby mode of the KPA500. You will just have to go thru once and set
> the levels to get 500 out (and whatever you want for Stndby).
> The KAT3 is never really bypassed, it is just put into default settings
> that are matched for a dummy load.
> I would tune the ATU into the amp and leave it on.
> Keith WE6R
>
> On 6/14/2012 10:00 AM, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Don Putnick<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> Just out of curiosity, any particular reason you want to bypass the K3 ATU?
>> Presumably because any stored match settings would be impertinent when
>> feeding the amp, vs. feeding the antenna(e) directly.
>>
>> The real question is; why would you ever want to operate without the
>> amp?? *grin*
>>
>>      ~iain / N6ML
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
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Re: Any way to automatically bypass K3 ATU when using KPA500?

Keith Trinity WE6R
Yes, I was wondering how he was tuning with the amp on too...
Of course we just need to sell him a KAT500!
Keith WE6R

On 6/14/2012 11:10 AM, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:

> I think you're missing the point, Keith ... or maybe I am. If you tune
> the KAT3 to match the amp, then it will not match the antenna when the
> amp is out of line. Of course this somewhat begs the question; how is
> the antenna being matched when the amp is active? Maybe it's close to
> 2:1, which is still acceptable, but the original poster wants to use
> the KAT3 to get a better match when operating barefoot...
>
> 73,
>
>      ~iain / N6ML
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Keith<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> If you have the optional Aux cable, set the K3 power set to "Per Band",
>> then you can have different power levels depending on the OPerat or
>> Stndby mode of the KPA500. You will just have to go thru once and set
>> the levels to get 500 out (and whatever you want for Stndby).
>> The KAT3 is never really bypassed, it is just put into default settings
>> that are matched for a dummy load.
>> I would tune the ATU into the amp and leave it on.
>> Keith WE6R
>>
>> On 6/14/2012 10:00 AM, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Don Putnick<[hidden email]>    wrote:
>>>> Just out of curiosity, any particular reason you want to bypass the K3 ATU?
>>> Presumably because any stored match settings would be impertinent when
>>> feeding the amp, vs. feeding the antenna(e) directly.
>>>
>>> The real question is; why would you ever want to operate without the
>>> amp?? *grin*
>>>
>>>       ~iain / N6ML
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>>
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Re: Any way to automatically bypass K3 ATU when using KPA500?

AC6JA
In reply to this post by Don Putnick-2
Of course the KAT500 is on order!  I placed my order over the phone  the
first day it became available, hihi!
I just think the internal K3 ATU should not be tuned into the theoretical  
50 ohm input of the KPA500.  Aren't there internal losses through the ATU  
components that don't need to happen if the tuner is bypassed?
I "assume" a firmware change could allow the ATU status to follow the OPER  
and STBY modes like the different power levels?
Just wonder how everyone else has their K3/KPA500 set up?
 
Mike  AC6JA
 
 
 
In a message dated 6/14/2012 2:02:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
[hidden email] writes:

Yes, I  was wondering how he was tuning with the amp on too...
Of course we just  need to sell him a KAT500!
Keith WE6R

On 6/14/2012 11:10 AM, iain  macdonnell - N6ML wrote:

> I think you're missing the point, Keith ...  or maybe I am. If you tune
> the KAT3 to match the amp, then it will not  match the antenna when the
> amp is out of line. Of course this somewhat  begs the question; how is
> the antenna being matched when the amp is  active? Maybe it's close to
> 2:1, which is still acceptable, but the  original poster wants to use
> the KAT3 to get a better match when  operating barefoot...
>
> 73,
>
>       ~iain / N6ML
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 10:42 AM,  Keith<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> If you have the  optional Aux cable, set the K3 power set to "Per Band",
>> then you  can have different power levels depending on the OPerat or
>> Stndby  mode of the KPA500. You will just have to go thru once and set
>> the  levels to get 500 out (and whatever you want for Stndby).
>> The KAT3  is never really bypassed, it is just put into default settings
>>  that are matched for a dummy load.
>> I would tune the ATU into the  amp and leave it on.
>> Keith WE6R
>>
>> On  6/14/2012 10:00 AM, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jun  14, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Don Putnick<[hidden email]>    
wrote:
>>>> Just out of curiosity, any particular reason you  want to bypass the
K3 ATU?

>>> Presumably because any stored match  settings would be impertinent when
>>> feeding the amp, vs.  feeding the antenna(e) directly.
>>>
>>> The real  question is; why would you ever want to operate without the
>>>  amp?? *grin*
>>>
>>>       ~iain /  N6ML
>>>  ______________________________________________________________
>>>  Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home:  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help:  http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post:  mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list  hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email  list:  http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>>
>>  ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Any way to automatically bypass K3 ATU when using KPA500?

Gary Gregory
*Easy...K3=500W transceiver.....it is online all the time...rarely use the
KAT3....:-)

With arrival of the KAT-500 eventually, I will not use the KAT3 very often
often barefoot either...YMMV

73

Gary
*
On 15 June 2012 10:49, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Of course the KAT500 is on order!  I placed my order over the phone  the
> first day it became available, hihi!
> I just think the internal K3 ATU should not be tuned into the theoretical
> 50 ohm input of the KPA500.  Aren't there internal losses through the ATU
> components that don't need to happen if the tuner is bypassed?
> I "assume" a firmware change could allow the ATU status to follow the OPER
> and STBY modes like the different power levels?
> Just wonder how everyone else has their K3/KPA500 set up?
>
> Mike  AC6JA
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/14/2012 2:02:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> [hidden email] writes:
>
> Yes, I  was wondering how he was tuning with the amp on too...
> Of course we just  need to sell him a KAT500!
> Keith WE6R
>
> On 6/14/2012 11:10 AM, iain  macdonnell - N6ML wrote:
> > I think you're missing the point, Keith ...  or maybe I am. If you tune
> > the KAT3 to match the amp, then it will not  match the antenna when the
> > amp is out of line. Of course this somewhat  begs the question; how is
> > the antenna being matched when the amp is  active? Maybe it's close to
> > 2:1, which is still acceptable, but the  original poster wants to use
> > the KAT3 to get a better match when  operating barefoot...
> >
> > 73,
> >
> >       ~iain / N6ML
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 10:42 AM,  Keith<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >> If you have the  optional Aux cable, set the K3 power set to "Per Band",
> >> then you  can have different power levels depending on the OPerat or
> >> Stndby  mode of the KPA500. You will just have to go thru once and set
> >> the  levels to get 500 out (and whatever you want for Stndby).
> >> The KAT3  is never really bypassed, it is just put into default settings
> >>  that are matched for a dummy load.
> >> I would tune the ATU into the  amp and leave it on.
> >> Keith WE6R
> >>
> >> On  6/14/2012 10:00 AM, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:
> >>> On Thu, Jun  14, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Don Putnick<[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>> Just out of curiosity, any particular reason you  want to bypass the
> K3 ATU?
> >>> Presumably because any stored match  settings would be impertinent when
> >>> feeding the amp, vs.  feeding the antenna(e) directly.
> >>>
> >>> The real  question is; why would you ever want to operate without the
> >>>  amp?? *grin*
> >>>
> >>>       ~iain /  N6ML
> >>>  ______________________________________________________________
> >>>  Elecraft mailing list
> >>> Home:  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>> Help:  http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post:  mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>
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> >>> Please help support this email  list:  http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>  ______________________________________________________________
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--
Gary
VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
Elecraft Equipment
K3 #679,P3 #1629, KPA-500 #018 KAT-500#??
Living the dream!!!
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Re: Any way to automatically bypass K3 ATU when using KPA500?

Guy, K2AV
In reply to this post by AC6JA
It's not bypassed.  The caps and inductors are "put in neutral",  but unit
still in line.   73, Guy.

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 8:49 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Aren't there internal losses through the ATU
> components that don't need to happen if the tuner is bypassed?
>
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Re: Any way to automatically bypass K3 ATU when using KPA500?

AC6JA
In reply to this post by Don Putnick-2
 
Of course the KAT500 is on order! I placed my order over the phone the  
first day it became available, hihi!
I just think the internal K3 ATU should not be tuned into the theoretical  
50 ohm input of the KPA500. Aren't there internal losses through the ATU  
components that don't need to happen if the tuner is bypassed?
I "assume" a firmware change could allow the ATU status to follow the OPER  
and STBY modes like the different power levels?
Just wonder how everyone else has their K3/KPA500 set up?

Mike AC6JA
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Re: Any way to automatically bypass K3 ATU when using KPA500?

Guy, K2AV
There are a lot of engineering issues in a choice to do it with a unit
switchout.  It's not clear that a 5 inch piece of coax has less loss than 5
inches of printed circuit board, so presuming extra loss with the tuner
going into "neutral" is not warranted.  Constant routing through the ATU
saves two relays, and whatever is necessary to drive them, thus saving
space, saving cost, and removing two possible failure points.  And one of
the antenna possibilities is that on a particular frequency, that the
antenna will present 50 ohms resistive, while other frequencies on the same
band and antenna require kicking in coils and/or caps.  So the 50 ohms
resistive setting, for all purposes a bypass, has to be in the ATU's
toolbox.  Bypass on the K3 just means set the ATU internal path and
connections at the 50 ohms resistive setting and leave it there.

Loss at this point is probably irrelevant any way.   Using the KPA500, you
would be setting the K3 power level to bring the KPA output to your chosen
level, and any loss or lack of it in the ATU path is simply accounted for
by where you set the power knob.

73, Guy.

On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 9:14 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Of course the KAT500 is on order! I placed my order over the phone the
> first day it became available, hihi!
> I just think the internal K3 ATU should not be tuned into the theoretical
> 50 ohm input of the KPA500. Aren't there internal losses through the ATU
> components that don't need to happen if the tuner is bypassed?
> I "assume" a firmware change could allow the ATU status to follow the OPER
> and STBY modes like the different power levels?
> Just wonder how everyone else has their K3/KPA500 set up?
>
> Mike AC6JA
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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