Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

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Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

nz8j
Maybe I'm missing the really obvious, but how do I insert a carriage return when creating or editing a text message for the SVGA option? I can't find  references to it anywhere.

Thanks
Tim
NZ8J


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Re: Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

N5GE
Hit the ENTER key.  I don't know why any one would refer to it as a
carriage return unless they were a computer programmer ;o)

73,
Tom
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
Licensed since 1976
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member

On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 13:48:47 -0400, Tim cook <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Maybe I'm missing the really obvious, but how do I insert a carriage return when creating or editing a text message for the SVGA option? I can't find  references to it anywhere.
>
>Thanks
>Tim
>NZ8J
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
73,
Tom
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
Licensed since 1976
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
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Re: Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

Richard Fjeld
Or a Teletype hobbyist.

Dick, n0ce

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Tom H Childers
  To: Tim cook
  Cc: 'Elecraft Mailing List'
  Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 1:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?


  Hit the ENTER key.  I don't know why any one would refer to it as a
  carriage return unless they were a computer programmer ;o)

  73,
  Tom
  Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
  Licensed since 1976
  ARRL Lifetime Member
  QCWA Lifetime Member

  On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 13:48:47 -0400, Tim cook <[hidden email]> wrote:

  >Maybe I'm missing the really obvious, but how do I insert a carriage return when creating or editing a text message for the SVGA option? I can't find  references to it anywhere.
  >
  >Thanks
  >Tim
  >NZ8J
  >
  >
  >______________________________________________________________
  >Elecraft mailing list
  >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
  >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
  >Post: mailto:[hidden email]
  >
  >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
  >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
  73,
  Tom
  Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
  Licensed since 1976
  ARRL Lifetime Member
  QCWA Lifetime Member

  ______________________________________________________________
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  Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Re: Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

Bob-2
In reply to this post by N5GE
Well my still operational Model 15 needs it as it does not have the Carriage
Return (CR) option installed. Just for fun and demonstrations I fire it up.  
Driven from a Timewave 59Y.   No way to get Baudot out from the K3 & P3.

Many do not send it any more and it the Model 15 just sits there piling up ink
at the end of a line.  And please do not forget to send the line feed (LF)
character too as it needs it or it will print over the last line.   TNX!

So the term is before computers and not from computer programmers, it is a
historical reference to the original TTY.

73,
Bob
K2TK  ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR



On 7/6/2013 2:01 PM, Tom H Childers wrote:

> Hit the ENTER key.  I don't know why any one would refer to it as a
> carriage return unless they were a computer programmer ;o)
>
> 73,
> Tom
> Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
> Licensed since 1976
> ARRL Lifetime Member
> QCWA Lifetime Member
>
> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 13:48:47 -0400, Tim cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Maybe I'm missing the really obvious, but how do I insert a carriage return when creating or editing a text message for the SVGA option? I can't find  references to it anywhere.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Tim
>> NZ8J
>>
>>

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Re: Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

nz8j
In reply to this post by N5GE
Actually I'm creating and editing RTTY memories and a carriage return (cr) or new line. (nl) was the first thing that came to mind at the time.  I want to TX my call and insert a CR/NL before the memory stops TX'ing. In any case hitting ENTER  completes the editing process entirely and doesn't allow further text entry.
Tim
NZ8J




On Jul 6, 2013, at 2:01 PM, Tom H Childers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hit the ENTER key.  I don't know why any one would refer to it as a
> carriage return unless they were a computer programmer ;o)
>
> 73,
> Tom
> Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
> Licensed since 1976
> ARRL Lifetime Member
> QCWA Lifetime Member
>
> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 13:48:47 -0400, Tim cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Maybe I'm missing the really obvious, but how do I insert a carriage return when creating or editing a text message for the SVGA option? I can't find  references to it anywhere.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Tim
>> NZ8J
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 73,
> Tom
> Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
> Licensed since 1976
> ARRL Lifetime Member
> QCWA Lifetime Member
>
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Re: Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

David Christ
In reply to this post by N5GE
Or people old enough to have been doing RTTY using mechanical teletype units.  Besides Carriage Return (CR) we had Line Feed (LF).  Of course on a typewriter carriage return gave you a line feed for free.

All these computer people seem to call it new line.

Some people miss AM.  I miss the pictures we used to do with CR and no LF to get overprints.

David K0LUM


On Jul 6, 2013, at 1:01 PM, Tom H Childers wrote:

> Hit the ENTER key.  I don't know why any one would refer to it as a
> carriage return unless they were a computer programmer ;o)
>
> 73,
> Tom
> Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
> Licensed since 1976
> ARRL Lifetime Member
> QCWA Lifetime Member
>
> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 13:48:47 -0400, Tim cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Maybe I'm missing the really obvious, but how do I insert a carriage return when creating or editing a text message for the SVGA option? I can't find  references to it anywhere.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Tim
>> NZ8J
>>
>>

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Re: Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

Mike Reublin
In reply to this post by nz8j
Tim,

I don't have an SVGA, so I don't know how it wants control characters. CR is ASCII  13, hex 0D. Maybe a \r.

73, Mike NF4L

On Jul 6, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Tim cook <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Actually I'm creating and editing RTTY memories and a carriage return (cr) or new line. (nl) was the first thing that came to mind at the time.  I want to TX my call and insert a CR/NL before the memory stops TX'ing. In any case hitting ENTER  completes the editing process entirely and doesn't allow further text entry.
> Tim
> NZ8J
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 6, 2013, at 2:01 PM, Tom H Childers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hit the ENTER key.  I don't know why any one would refer to it as a
>> carriage return unless they were a computer programmer ;o)
>>
>> 73,
>> Tom
>> Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
>> Licensed since 1976
>> ARRL Lifetime Member
>> QCWA Lifetime Member
>>
>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 13:48:47 -0400, Tim cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe I'm missing the really obvious, but how do I insert a carriage return when creating or editing a text message for the SVGA option? I can't find  references to it anywhere.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Tim
>>> NZ8J
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> 73,
>> Tom
>> Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
>> Licensed since 1976
>> ARRL Lifetime Member
>> QCWA Lifetime Member
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


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Re: Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

Richard Fjeld
In reply to this post by Bob-2
Bob,
Have you found a comma on the model 15 yet?

Dick, n0ce

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Bob
  To: [hidden email] ; Elecraft Reflector
  Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 1:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?


  Well my still operational Model 15 needs it as it does not have the Carriage
  Return (CR) option installed. Just for fun and demonstrations I fire it up.  
  Driven from a Timewave 59Y.   No way to get Baudot out from the K3 & P3.

  Many do not send it any more and it the Model 15 just sits there piling up ink
  at the end of a line.  And please do not forget to send the line feed (LF)
  character too as it needs it or it will print over the last line.   TNX!

  So the term is before computers and not from computer programmers, it is a
  historical reference to the original TTY.

  73,
  Bob
  K2TK  ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR



  On 7/6/2013 2:01 PM, Tom H Childers wrote:
  > Hit the ENTER key.  I don't know why any one would refer to it as a
  > carriage return unless they were a computer programmer ;o)
  >
  > 73,
  > Tom
  > Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
  > Licensed since 1976
  > ARRL Lifetime Member
  > QCWA Lifetime Member
  >
  > On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 13:48:47 -0400, Tim cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
  >
  >> Maybe I'm missing the really obvious, but how do I insert a carriage return when creating or editing a text message for the SVGA option? I can't find  references to it anywhere.
  >>
  >> Thanks
  >> Tim
  >> NZ8J
  >>
  >>

  ______________________________________________________________
  Elecraft mailing list
  Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
  Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
  Post: mailto:[hidden email]

  This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
  Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

KE6BB
In reply to this post by N5GE
...or an old guy.  The Model 19 TTY had a CR key, and a separate LF key, if my memory is correct.  That is what most of us used for RTTY before computers.  Smelly, noisy, but they worked.  

The key was a CR key well before it was an ENTER key.

Mark
KE6BB
(An old guy)

Sent from my iThingie.

On Jul 6, 2013, at 11:01 AM, Tom H Childers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hit the ENTER key.  I don't know why any one would refer to it as a
> carriage return unless they were a computer programmer ;o)
>
> 73,
> Tom
> Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
> Licensed since 1976
> ARRL Lifetime Member
> QCWA Lifetime Member
>
> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 13:48:47 -0400, Tim cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Maybe I'm missing the really obvious, but how do I insert a carriage return when creating or editing a text message for the SVGA option? I can't find  references to it anywhere.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Tim
>> NZ8J
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 73,
> Tom
> Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
> Licensed since 1976
> ARRL Lifetime Member
> QCWA Lifetime Member
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

David Christ
In reply to this post by Bob-2
I remember 30 years ago when word processing programs were becoming available with word wrap many experienced typists had trouble getting their minds around that you didn't have to hit Enter (the equivalent of running the carriage back) at the end of each line.  That formatting could be done later was tough to grasp.

David K0LUM


On Jul 6, 2013, at 1:22 PM, Bob wrote:

> Well my still operational Model 15 needs it as it does not have the Carriage Return (CR) option installed. Just for fun and demonstrations I fire it up.  Driven from a Timewave 59Y.   No way to get Baudot out from the K3 & P3.
>
> Many do not send it any more and it the Model 15 just sits there piling up ink at the end of a line.  And please do not forget to send the line feed (LF) character too as it needs it or it will print over the last line.   TNX!
>
> So the term is before computers and not from computer programmers, it is a historical reference to the original TTY.
>
> 73,
> Bob
> K2TK  ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR
>
>
>
> On 7/6/2013 2:01 PM, Tom H Childers wrote:
>> Hit the ENTER key.  I don't know why any one would refer to it as a
>> carriage return unless they were a computer programmer ;o)
>>
>> 73,
>> Tom
>> Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
>> Licensed since 1976
>> ARRL Lifetime Member
>> QCWA Lifetime Member
>>

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Re: Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

Richard Fjeld
Yes, the early programs were exciting.  I bought Lotus Suite and hated to see it go by the wayside.

BTW,
Has anyone on the list ever used a model 40 teletype with magnetic tape storage?

Dick, n0ce

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: David Christ
  To: Elecraft Reflector
  Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 1:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?


  I remember 30 years ago when word processing programs were becoming available with word wrap many experienced typists had trouble getting their minds around that you didn't have to hit Enter (the equivalent of running the carriage back) at the end of each line.  That formatting could be done later was tough to grasp.

  David K0LUM


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Re: Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

Bob-270
In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld
Hi Dick,

             Yes, that was a recent discovery.  It is hidden under the FIGS and
N keys.  But what really baffles me is that I  can not get it out of CAPS and
I've been accused or shouting and just being rude.

             I guess I don't have enough time on the GREEN KEYS to have learned
all the subtleties yet.

73,
Bob
K2TK


On 7/6/2013 2:36 PM, Richard Fjeld wrote:

> Bob,
> Have you found a comma on the model 15 yet?
>
> Dick, n0ce
>
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Bob
>    To: [hidden email] ; Elecraft Reflector
>    Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 1:22 PM
>    Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?
>
>
>    Well my still operational Model 15 needs it as it does not have the Carriage
>    Return (CR) option installed. Just for fun and demonstrations I fire it up.
>    Driven from a Timewave 59Y.   No way to get Baudot out from the K3 & P3.
>
>    Many do not send it any more and it the Model 15 just sits there piling up ink
>    at the end of a line.  And please do not forget to send the line feed (LF)
>    character too as it needs it or it will print over the last line.   TNX!
>
>    So the term is before computers and not from computer programmers, it is a
>    historical reference to the original TTY.
>
>    73,
>    Bob
>    K2TK  ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR
>
>
>
>    On 7/6/2013 2:01 PM, Tom H Childers wrote:
>    > Hit the ENTER key.  I don't know why any one would refer to it as a
>    > carriage return unless they were a computer programmer ;o)
>    >
>    > 73,
>    > Tom
>    > Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
>    > Licensed since 1976
>    > ARRL Lifetime Member
>    > QCWA Lifetime Member
>    >
>    > On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 13:48:47 -0400, Tim cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>    >
>    >> Maybe I'm missing the really obvious, but how do I insert a carriage return when creating or editing a text message for the SVGA option? I can't find  references to it anywhere.
>    >>
>    >> Thanks
>    >> Tim
>    >> NZ8J
>    >>
>  

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Re: Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

KE6BB
Re:  <But what really baffles me is that I  can not get it out of CAPS and I've been accused or shouting and just being rude.>

That shows you that the folks who complain the most usually know the least!


Long time ago...going from memory here:


No small letters were available.  Up through the Model 19, everything used Baudot code which only had caps.  RTTY was the same way in those days.


Figures key put the TX and RX TTY's into Figures mode (numbers, punctuation, etc.), LTR key put them into letters mode. Figures and letters key was always sent twice just in case the first one didn't decode properly...or at least the letters key was.  That way you didn't leave the other guy in the opposite mode.  Nothing worse than being in figures when the other guy was sending letters!  ASCII came later with Caps and small letters, and no FGS or LTR keys.  Model 23 sent ascii.  I don't think it was compatible with our earlier TTY's.  I never had a model 23.  Went straight to rudimentary computer code/decode instead.  Converted my homebrew terminal so it could talk to my computer (expanded Cosmac Elf with tiny display and keyboard...google it...wish I still had it).  Nothing like today, though.  I THINK that gave me the option to use ASCII, but can't remember for sure.


MARK<cr><lf>
KE<fgs><fgs>6<ltrs><ltrs>BB<cr><cr><lf><lf>




________________________________
 From: Bob <[hidden email]>
To: Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?
 

Hi Dick,

             Yes, that was a recent discovery.  It is hidden under the FIGS and
N keys.  But what really baffles me is that I  can not get it out of CAPS and
I've been accused or shouting and just being rude.

             I guess I don't have enough time on the GREEN KEYS to have learned
all the subtleties yet.

73,
Bob
K2TK


On 7/6/2013 2:36 PM, Richard Fjeld wrote:

> Bob,
> Have you found a comma on the model 15 yet?
>
> Dick, n0ce
>
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Bob
>    To: [hidden email] ; Elecraft Reflector
>    Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 1:22 PM
>    Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?
>
>
>    Well my still operational Model 15 needs it as it does not have the Carriage
>    Return (CR) option installed. Just for fun and demonstrations I fire it up.
>    Driven from a Timewave 59Y.   No way to get Baudot out from the K3 & P3.
>
>    Many do not send it any more and it the Model 15 just sits there piling up ink
>    at the end of a line.  And please do not forget to send the line feed (LF)
>    character too as it needs it or it will print over the last line.   TNX!
>
>    So the term is before computers and not from computer programmers, it is a
>    historical reference to the original TTY.
>
>    73,
>    Bob
>    K2TK  ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR
>
>
>
>    On 7/6/2013 2:01 PM, Tom H Childers wrote:
>    > Hit the ENTER key.  I don't know why any one would refer to it as a
>    > carriage return unless they were a computer programmer ;o)
>    >
>    > 73,
>    > Tom
>    > Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
>    > Licensed since 1976
>    > ARRL Lifetime Member
>    > QCWA Lifetime Member
>    >
>    > On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 13:48:47 -0400, Tim cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>    >
>    >> Maybe I'm missing the really obvious, but how do I insert a carriage return when creating or editing a text message for the SVGA option? I can't find  references to it anywhere.
>    >>
>    >> Thanks
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Re: Carriage Return in SVGA text messages?

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
Administrator
End of Thread.  Please resist the urge to post on OT areas when the thread gets this long.

Also, please -always- delete the majority of the copied thread text as I have done here, and all of the prior list footers to reduce unnecessary email volume for other readers.

73,

Eric
List moderator, for real.
elecraft.com
_..._



On Jul 7, 2013, at 4:44 AM, "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yep. AFAIK it was Telex (land-line based hard copy texting between terminals
> for businesses) that added lower case letters to the keyboard.
>
> 73 Ron AC7AC
>
>
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