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Re: Prospective K4

Scott Manthe-2
Elecraft's design philosophy is based on efficiency and portability. If
an 8 inch screen could be made to be efficient enough to use in the
filed, I see no reason why Elecraft couldn't incorporate it into a new
rig. However, I don't think you're going to see Elecraft doing what
every other company is doing. I for one don't want a transceiver
dependent on a computer, like the Flex, or a 55 pound behemoth like the
IC7600 or Kenwood TS990, etc. Lot's of people do, and those radios are
available to them. I don't think Elecraft is going to make one, though.

I'm guessing the K4, or whatever Elecraft decides to call the new rig,
will be fully "modern," but stick with Elecraft's design and performance
principles. I have no idea what that will entail, but I'd bet we'll see
lots of modularity and terrific performance.

73,
Scott N9AA


On 5/5/19 11:54 AM, Macy monkeys wrote:
> 8" display with 3D spectrum scope. I'm enjoying it on the FTDX101D while I wait for the K4...
>
> John K7FD
>

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Re: Prospective K4

John Oppenheimer
And easy on a battery for field operation, < 400mA Receive and optimal
PA biasing for efficient for 5W and 20W to 50W operation.

John KN5L
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Re: Prospective K4

Rose
In reply to this post by Scott Manthe-2
Well said, Scott ....

73

K0PP

On Sun, May 5, 2019, 12:29 Scott Manthe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Elecraft's design philosophy is based on efficiency and portability. If
> an 8 inch screen could be made to be efficient enough to use in the
> filed, I see no reason why Elecraft couldn't incorporate it into a new
> rig. However, I don't think you're going to see Elecraft doing what
> every other company is doing. I for one don't want a transceiver
> dependent on a computer, like the Flex, or a 55 pound behemoth like the
> IC7600 or Kenwood TS990, etc. Lot's of people do, and those radios are
> available to them. I don't think Elecraft is going to make one, though.
>
> I'm guessing the K4, or whatever Elecraft decides to call the new rig,
> will be fully "modern," but stick with Elecraft's design and performance
> principles. I have no idea what that will entail, but I'd bet we'll see
> lots of modularity and terrific performance.
>
> 73,
> Scott N9AA
>
>
> On 5/5/19 11:54 AM, Macy monkeys wrote:
> > 8" display with 3D spectrum scope. I'm enjoying it on the FTDX101D while
> I wait for the K4...
> >
> > John K7FD
> >
>
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Re: Prospective K4

ha4zd
In reply to this post by Rose
Many HAMs use transceiver with language barrier. That goes so far that
they use it with one setup, that might be the wrong one for a given
frequency or antenna or mode. With Windows they choose their own
language when they set up the PC to make the life easier. That may not
work every time, like my case I could not set up Fldigi on Hungarian
keyboard PC though W10 was English. So moved to a second PC. With SDR
trx that option will never happen so they insist on simple radios,
asking for manual translation.... For those a very simple menu system is
welcome. K3 is a good, keep that practice, no multilevel menus are
received well. Complicated SDR is not for them. Just thoughts.

73, István ha4zd


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Re: Prospective K4

turnbull
In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Wayne, Please keep it modular.  This helps with price; building what one desires and repairability.   The modular design of the K3/S allowed updates.   Elecraft  have master engineers.  100W is plenty for me.   I can always add an amp.   We are all different.   Please stay with external power supplies.The large screen external VDU is excellent for the P3.   I like the external P3.   A panadaptor is not needed in many operations but it is a truly useful feature.Please keep the pod.Maybe there can be further enhancement for digi modes.You already have a great and probably the best radio.   You are now climbing Everest good thing you like getting into the hills.GL 73 Doug EI2CNSent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> Date: 05/05/2019  13:11  (GMT-05:00) To: [hidden email] Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Prospective K4 > Drew AF2Z <[hidden email]> wrote:> > I've never doubted that Elecraft would produce a great CW rig, if not the best!> > The only thing I'd be concerned about is the operator interface. Not really looking forward to touchscreen controls here, though I suppose they are inevitable in modern rigs.Touch/mouse would provide a lot of flexibility. The trick would be to use "real" controls for things you do most often, and make sparing use of touch for basic operation. Of course touch has some cool aspects  like tap/drag, pinch/spread, etc., that can be applied to new features such as an advanced panadapter. > > I think modern rigs could benefit by having an optional keyboard interface-- no need of an intermediary computer, just a dedicated plug-in (or wireless) keyboard that could be used to access all the rig controls and menu items.Definitely.> I wonder if Elecraft will stick with the high portability/low power consumption design. Those things aren't really important to me. I wouldn't mind a larger rig.We're dedicated to providing gear that won't break your back, runs efficiently, and can be used for portable applications when needed (Field Day, DXpeditions, emcomm, RV, etc.). A new radio would have be somewhat bigger to accommodate a large display, but it would not have to be twice as large, weigh 2 to 3 times as much, or consume 3 to 4 times as much power as a K3S. All of the K3S's newer competitors have one or more of these non-portable characteristics, and some have all three.73,WayneN6KR______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: Prospective K4

Joe Subich, W4TV-4
In reply to this post by John Oppenheimer

 > for efficient for 5W and 20W to 50W operation.

This is not what is needed in a top of the line transceiver.

Give me a 48V final capable of 200 W CW/SSB/FSK and forget about low
power consumption portable operation.  The KX2/K3/K3/K3S already
serves the low power/portable niche.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2019-05-05 3:00 PM, John Oppenheimer wrote:
> And easy on a battery for field operation, < 400mA Receive and optimal
> PA biasing for efficient for 5W and 20W to 50W operation.
>
> John KN5L
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Re: Prospective K4

Doug Hensley
In reply to this post by WA2SI
Has anyone got a good handle on how much the value of a K3 dropped after the K3S had established itself ?

If so, what can we expect the average value of a K3S to drop once a K4 has spread its wings & shared its eggs ?   And how much further down in value is that going to push the venerable old K3?

To me the wishful thinking about a K4 is disconcerting.  That much of my investment is going to go "poof" when a new model suddenly hits the market gives me cause to wonder if I knew what I was doing in the first place.  YMMV but  clairvoyant predictions are welcome 🙂 ....

Doug W5JV






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Re: Prospective K4

Elecraft mailing list
In reply to this post by turnbull
I for one would not have a touch screen on a radio..Keep the radio as it is with add-ons..Come out with a touch screen like the P3 with added features. I like the fact you can add a keyboard now with the rig..Keep it modular where you can add it if want it..For god sake don't be like the others..THIS IS WHAT GOT YOU WHERE YOU ARE NOW!! Different and outstanding!

   73s Bob W5RG
 

    On Sunday, May 5, 2019, 3:31:01 PM EDT, turnbull <[hidden email]> wrote:  
 
 Wayne, Please keep it modular.  This helps with price; building what one desires and repairability.   The modular design of the K3/S allowed updates.   Elecraft  have master engineers.  100W is plenty for me.   I can always add an amp.   We are all different.   Please stay with external power supplies.The large screen external VDU is excellent for the P3.   I like the external P3.   A panadaptor is not needed in many operations but it is a truly useful feature.Please keep the pod.Maybe there can be further enhancement for digi modes.You already have a great and probably the best radio.   You are now climbing Everest good thing you like getting into the hills.GL 73 Doug EI2CNSent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> Date: 05/05/2019  13:11  (GMT-05:00) To: [hidden email] Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Prospective K4 > Drew AF2Z <[hidden email]> wrote:> > I've never doubted that Elecraft would produce a great CW rig, if not the best!> > The only thing I'd be concerned about is the operator interface. Not really looking forward to touchscreen controls here, though I suppose they are inevitable in modern rigs.Touch/mouse would provide a lot of flexibility. The trick would be to use "real" controls for things you do most often, and make sparing use of touch for basic operation. Of course touch has some cool aspects  like tap/drag, pinch/spread, etc., that can be applied to new features such as an advanced panadapter. > > I think modern rigs could benefit by having an optional keyboard interface-- no need of an intermediary computer, just a dedicated plug-in (or wireless) keyboard that could be used to access all the rig controls and menu items.Definitely.> I wonder if Elecraft will stick with the high portability/low power consumption design. Those things aren't really important to me. I wouldn't mind a larger rig.We're dedicated to providing gear that won't break your back, runs efficiently, and can be used for portable applications when needed (Field Day, DXpeditions, emcomm, RV, etc.). A new radio would have be somewhat bigger to accommodate a large display, but it would not have to be twice as large, weigh 2 to 3 times as much, or consume 3 to 4 times as much power as a K3S. All of the K3S's newer competitors have one or more of these non-portable characteristics, and some have all three.73,WayneN6KR______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: Prospective K4

Edward R Cole
In reply to this post by WA2SI
Here we go again with K4 Talk <smile>

The "jury" seems split on touch-screen or manual controls.  I suggest
this as a compromise:

Provide basic radio (say 50w with 13.8v output devices for portable
use).  I bought a K3/10 to start out.  Then a KXPA100.
Offer 200w 50v final as option.
Basic radio would have manual controls like the K3/K3s.
Offer a touch-screen option which would include P3 capability in a
separate cabinet with mouse/keyboard I/F.

Keep the firmware concept flexible with upgrades with an efficient cpu and OS.

Have IQ baseband output for running various digital modes on
customer's computers (maybe with wifi so one could use an ipad or
equivalent).  Or maybe bluetooth.  I'm sure wireless is a rapidly
changing field so will not speculate what would be best.  USB
computer I/F like the K3s

73, Ed - KL7UW
   http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
   [hidden email]

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Re: Prospective K4

David Gilbert
In reply to this post by Doug Hensley

If you based your buying decision on whether or not it would hold value
as an investment instead of whether or not it met your needs, then yes,
I think you may not have properly considered everything.

Dave   AB7E



On 5/5/2019 1:19 PM, Doug Hensley wrote:

> Has anyone got a good handle on how much the value of a K3 dropped after the K3S had established itself ?
>
> If so, what can we expect the average value of a K3S to drop once a K4 has spread its wings & shared its eggs ?   And how much further down in value is that going to push the venerable old K3?
>
> To me the wishful thinking about a K4 is disconcerting.  That much of my investment is going to go "poof" when a new model suddenly hits the market gives me cause to wonder if I knew what I was doing in the first place.  YMMV but  clairvoyant predictions are welcome 🙂 ....
>
> Doug W5JV
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Re: Prospective K4

EricJ
In reply to this post by Doug Hensley
K1's often go for more than they cost as a new kit.

K2's have held there value very well.

Wait til you find out your kids usually throw all your ham gear in a
dumpster when you go permanent QRT.

Eric KE6US

On 5/5/2019 1:19 PM, Doug Hensley wrote:

> Has anyone got a good handle on how much the value of a K3 dropped after the K3S had established itself ?
>
> If so, what can we expect the average value of a K3S to drop once a K4 has spread its wings & shared its eggs ?   And how much further down in value is that going to push the venerable old K3?
>
> To me the wishful thinking about a K4 is disconcerting.  That much of my investment is going to go "poof" when a new model suddenly hits the market gives me cause to wonder if I knew what I was doing in the first place.  YMMV but  clairvoyant predictions are welcome 🙂 ....
>
> Doug W5JV
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Re: Prospective K4

K7TV
In reply to this post by David Gilbert
Elecraft has been good about keeping earlier products available, at least until some part becomes impossible for them to source. I sincerely hope the K3s remains among the product offerings, as a new bigger radio will be less suitable for some portable uses even if it is designesd with portability in mind. This would also help the resale value of the K3(s). Generally, I see Elecraft radios holding their value much better than other brands in the face of new model releases.
73,
Erik K7TV


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Re: Prospective K4

Elecraft mailing list
In reply to this post by David Gilbert
And.... it's best to remember that Elecraft rigs are products...perhaps tools, but not investments.  Maybe 50 or 100 years from now, they will be "collectibles" and become an investment (of sorts) at that point.  
You might be spending your hard earned money on an Elecraft rig, but you are not investing.  Investments either appreciate in value, return dividends, or both.
73 de RayK2ULRKX3 #211



-----Original Message-----
From: David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
To: elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sun, May 5, 2019 5:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Prospective K4


If you based your buying decision on whether or not it would hold value
as an investment instead of whether or not it met your needs, then yes,
I think you may not have properly considered everything.

Dave   AB7E



On 5/5/2019 1:19 PM, Doug Hensley wrote:

> Has anyone got a good handle on how much the value of a K3 dropped after the K3S had established itself ?
>
> If so, what can we expect the average value of a K3S to drop once a K4 has spread its wings & shared its eggs ?  And how much further down in value is that going to push the venerable old K3?
>
> To me the wishful thinking about a K4 is disconcerting.  That much of my investment is going to go "poof" when a new model suddenly hits the market gives me cause to wonder if I knew what I was doing in the first place.  YMMV but  clairvoyant predictions are welcome 🙂 ....
>
> Doug W5JV
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Re: Prospective K4 (when you are SK)

David Christ
In reply to this post by EricJ
Authors often have literary executors to deal with their papers when they die.  I might suggest that all of us work out an arrangement where one or more hams are identified to help with gear dispersal after we are gone.  Make sure the spouse and heirs are informed of this.

David K0LUM

> On May 5, 2019, at 5:21 PM, EricJ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Wait til you find out your kids usually throw all your ham gear in a dumpster when you go permanent QRT.
>
> Eric KE6US

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Re: when you are SK (was: Prospective K4)

Steve Sergeant
OTOH, I know someone who bought a like-new KX3, fully equipped with all
options, at an estate auction for $215.00.

Some newbie ham got a "hand-up" getting started in HF with that deal.


On 5/5/19 15:36 PM, David Christ wrote:
> Authors often have literary executors to deal with their papers when they die.  I might suggest that all of us work out an arrangement where one or more hams are identified to help with gear dispersal after we are gone.  Make sure the spouse and heirs are informed of this.
>
> David K0LUM
>
>> On May 5, 2019, at 5:21 PM, EricJ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Wait til you find out your kids usually throw all your ham gear in a dumpster when you go permanent QRT.
>>
>> Eric KE6US
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Re: Prospective K4

Wes Stewart-2
In reply to this post by Doug Hensley
First, radios are like government spending, neither are investments; stocks and
bonds are investments.  Radios are toys, so we need to examine how much money we
can afford to squander on playthings.

Sorry, I can't predict the future but I can examine the past.   In 1998, I
bought a Kenwood TS-870SAT.  It set me back $2575.  Contrast that to my first K3
purchased ten years later for $2100!  I subsequently sold the Kenwood for a
thousand bucks, making my cost of ownership (in constant dollars) $1575. 
Amortized over 10 years that came out to 13 bucks a month.  Now if the Kenwood
had completely failed after 10 years (it didn't it was flawless, more than I can
say for my Elecrafts) my monthly cost would have skyrocketed to $21/month.
Hardly something to fret about.

Now I have the K3 sitting of the floor with a K3S on the desk.  I have no idea
what the K3 is worth, or how much the introduction of the K3S lowered its value
because it doesn't matter, I don't intend to sell it; I've learned to have a
backup. If a K4 comes out in my lifetime and lowers the value of the K3S, so be
it.  I'll play with it until then.

Wes  N7WS



On 5/5/2019 1:19 PM, Doug Hensley wrote:
> Has anyone got a good handle on how much the value of a K3 dropped after the K3S had established itself ?
>
> If so, what can we expect the average value of a K3S to drop once a K4 has spread its wings & shared its eggs ?   And how much further down in value is that going to push the venerable old K3?
>
> To me the wishful thinking about a K4 is disconcerting.  That much of my investment is going to go "poof" when a new model suddenly hits the market gives me cause to wonder if I knew what I was doing in the first place.  YMMV but  clairvoyant predictions are welcome 🙂 ....
>
> Doug W5JV
>

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Re: when you are SK (was: Prospective K4)

Edward R Cole
In reply to this post by Steve Sergeant
No problem:  my step-son is a ham - stuff will not be trashed though
he might sell it.

My 16-foot dish, on other hand, might see the recycler.

73, Ed - KL7UW
   http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
   [hidden email]

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Re: Prospective K4

Bob McGraw - K4TAX
In reply to this post by EricJ
That's the reason I purchased my K3S, P3, KPA500 and KAT500 all within
the past 2 years.  At 77 years young, I figure it will be my last ham
radio station until I'm QRT.     I used a P-Touch and put a nice label
with the model, s/n, and price paid and my call on each of the boxes.

I figure in the end some auctioneer will sell it for $0.01 on the dollar
if lucky.  "You know that McGraw fellow was one of them CB operators and
had some weird looking equipment".   And furthermore, for the same
reason, I liquidated my shop test equipment.  I wanted to enjoy the
benefits of the money while still on the green side of the grass, as
opposed to looking up at the roots from inside of a satin lined
coffin.   "Beam me up Scottie, there's no intelligent life here".  
Chuck me in the oven and toss my ashes to the wind.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 5/5/2019 5:21 PM, EricJ wrote:
> K1's often go for more than they cost as a new kit.
>
> K2's have held there value very well.
>
> Wait til you find out your kids usually throw all your ham gear in a
> dumpster when you go permanent QRT.
>
> Eric KE6US
>

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Re: Prospective K4

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Doug Hensley
On 5/5/2019 1:19 PM, Doug Hensley wrote:
> That much of my investment is going to go "poof" when a new model suddenly hits the market

One of the things my mother taught me (she was an accountant) is that
houses are not an investment, they are a HOME to be enjoyed. The same is
true of things like radios -- that is, to be used and enjoyed. Either
becomes a bad investment if we no longer enjoy them.

I bought two K3s in 2008, and ten years later, I'm still quite happy
with them, both because of their original quality and design, and
because I've upgraded them with modules designed for the K3S. I've got
"nearly K3S" radios for the added cost of less than $600 per radio (two
RXs).

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: Prospective K4

iw2noy
In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

One of the nicest and funny message i ever read from an OM. ;-)

Thanks Bob.

Graziano IW2NOY

Il 06/05/2019 03:37 Bob McGraw K4TAX ha scritto:

> That's the reason I purchased my K3S, P3, KPA500 and KAT500 all within
> the past 2 years.  At 77 years young, I figure it will be my last ham
> radio station until I'm QRT.     I used a P-Touch and put a nice label
> with the model, s/n, and price paid and my call on each of the boxes.
>
> I figure in the end some auctioneer will sell it for $0.01 on the
> dollar if lucky.  "You know that McGraw fellow was one of them CB
> operators and had some weird looking equipment".   And furthermore,
> for the same reason, I liquidated my shop test equipment.  I wanted to
> enjoy the benefits of the money while still on the green side of the
> grass, as opposed to looking up at the roots from inside of a satin
> lined coffin.   "Beam me up Scottie, there's no intelligent life
> here".   Chuck me in the oven and toss my ashes to the wind.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 5/5/2019 5:21 PM, EricJ wrote:
>> K1's often go for more than they cost as a new kit.
>>
>> K2's have held there value very well.
>>
>> Wait til you find out your kids usually throw all your ham gear in a
>> dumpster when you go permanent QRT.
>>
>> Eric KE6US
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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