Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position recommendation needed

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Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position recommendation needed

Peter D. Vouvounas
I presume some of you have been through a selection process to find a usable
dimmable LED desk lamp with articulating arm that does not create RFI back
into your Flex on HF.

My current desk lamp (Halogen with mini bulb dimmable) makes a great deal of
noise in the 80 meter band and I'd like to replace it.  Hard to operate
without a lamp.  My wife calls my home office / shack the cave. Often I need
a dimmed light in the cave hihi.

Thank for any help.  PeterV WB3FSR on the Jersey Shore

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Re: Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position recommendation needed

Elecraft mailing list
\

> On Jan 6, 2017, at 2:00 AM, Peter D. Vouvounas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I presume some of you have been through a selection process to find a usable
> dimmable LED desk lamp with articulating arm that does not create RFI back
> into your Flex on HF.
>
>

I mounted (dual side adhesive tape) an LED strip to the underside of an equipment shelf.  The strip came with a 12v switcher that I ignored.  I use my 12 volt supply.  The strip was, I think, 24 inches long and has a dimmer that can be inserted in the power lead.  No RFI.  Plenty bright.  Mine came from Amazon but there are many to choose from these days; you can even select color temperature when you order.
--
Marc W8SDG
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Re: Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position recommendation needed

Barry
In reply to this post by Peter D. Vouvounas
I've used this one for over a year, and pleased with it.  My wire antennas are only about 25 ft away and no noise issues:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KSQ8ZNA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Barry W2UP
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Re: Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position recommendation needed

Craig Smith
In reply to this post by Peter D. Vouvounas
Greetings Peter …

Have a look at this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Dimmable-Stoog-Brightness-Rechargeable-Adjustable/dp/B01CSHZ99Y/ref=sr_1_10?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1483715928&sr=1-10&keywords=usb+led+desk+lamp

I’m not claiming this is the highest quality lamp ever made.   I also do not currently have a way of assessing the EMI situation with your setup.   However, it is an amazingly versatile lamp and well worth the $13 price!   Even if you select something else, you may want to have one of these around for other purposes.

Some of the things I like about it:

Very small and light and easily moved around for the task at hand.  

Convient recharge from any USB port.

3 selectable light intensities.

Very long time between recharges.   I use mine fairly intermittently, but get 2 or 3 months usage on a charge.

For $13, it can be considered a throw-away item if you don’t end up liking it.

 73       Craig    AC0DS


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Re: Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position recommendation needed

Jim Brown-10
On Fri,1/6/2017 7:24 AM, Craig Smith wrote:
> Have a look at this one:

I'm using LED strip lights from Wired Communications. Discovered them
several years ago -- they sell at hamfests on the west coast. Do NOT use
their power supplies. But their strips work great on a wide range of DC
voltages. I run them from the 12V system in my shack. Four of their
strips light my shack for normal operation, current draw is about 1.2 A.

In general, it's dimmers and power supplies that are noisy, not LEDs. Of
course there are exceptions.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position recommendation needed

Bill Frantz
In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list
To avoid color shifts with dimming, most LED dimmers use Pulse
Width Modulation (PWM). PWM has the potential to generate RFI,
so be careful. The LEDs themselves should be very quiet. Using
LEDs with resistors to limit the current should also be quiet. A
system that switches LEDs for brightness control would be a safe
solution, but I don't know of any commercial systems which do this.

On the other hand, I have not noticed a problem with the LED
dimmers in my house, so perhaps most of the problem is in the
wall-wart power supply.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/6/17 at 3:50 AM, [hidden email] (Marc Veeneman
via Elecraft) wrote:

>I mounted (dual side adhesive tape) an LED strip to the
>underside of an equipment shelf.  The strip came with a 12v
>switcher that I ignored.  I use my 12 volt supply.  The strip
>was, I think, 24 inches long and has a dimmer that can be
>inserted in the power lead.  No RFI.  Plenty bright.  Mine came
>from Amazon but there are many to choose from these days; you
>can even select color temperature when you order.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz        | Truth and love must prevail  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506      | over lies and hate.          | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |               - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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Re: Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position recommendation needed

Dave AD6A
An LED is basically a fancy diode, so a linear voltage regulator to control
its brightness will not work well.

Starting from around 2V output (say) the LED/s will be OFF. As you increase
the regulator's output voltage, somewhere around 2.5V (depends on the exact
type of LED you're using), the LED will begin to conduct forward current and
start to emit light. At this point, increasing the regulator's output
voltage just a tiny bit will increase the brightness of the LED a lot (it's
basically an exponential curve). So at just a couple hundred mV above the
voltage where the LED began to emit light, you will reach full brightness.
Any further increase in the drive voltage will merely result in the series
current-limiting resistor dissipating more heat.

What is really needed here is a linearly-variable constant-current generator
circuit. This is a fairly simple circuit to design, usually consisting of a
voltage reference, a comparator, and a drive transistor, with some feedback
from a current sensing resistor. It will need to be designed so that it can
generate enough voltage to overcome the LED's forward voltage (Vf), and with
an output current that's variable from 0mA to around 20mA (or whatever the
LED's maximum forward current (If max) is specified at).

Hope this helps.

Cheers es 73,
Dave
AD6A

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron
D'Eau Claire
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 8:17 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position
recommendation needed

A linear voltage regulator is very quiet. That's just a bipolar transistor
passing the current with adjustable base voltage. I use them on my HB power
supplies for the same reason. No square switching, no RFI.

73, Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill
Frantz
Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 6:07 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position
recommendation needed

To avoid color shifts with dimming, most LED dimmers use Pulse Width
Modulation (PWM). PWM has the potential to generate RFI, so be careful. The
LEDs themselves should be very quiet. Using LEDs with resistors to limit the
current should also be quiet. A system that switches LEDs for brightness
control would be a safe solution, but I don't know of any commercial systems
which do this.

On the other hand, I have not noticed a problem with the LED dimmers in my
house, so perhaps most of the problem is in the wall-wart power supply.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/6/17 at 3:50 AM, [hidden email] (Marc Veeneman via Elecraft)
wrote:

>I mounted (dual side adhesive tape) an LED strip to the underside of an
>equipment shelf.  The strip came with a 12v switcher that I ignored.  I
>use my 12 volt supply.  The strip was, I think, 24 inches long and has
>a dimmer that can be inserted in the power lead.  No RFI.  Plenty
>bright.  Mine came from Amazon but there are many to choose from these
>days; you can even select color temperature when you order.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz        | Truth and love must prevail  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506      | over lies and hate.          | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |               - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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Re: Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position recommendation needed

David Woolley (E.L)
In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list
There will be a switching converter on any quality make of LED lighting.
  The only way you avoid it is if they use a simple series dropper
resistor, which is not energy efficient.

LEDs are constant current devices, so there is no such thing as a 12V
LED (an LED with a 12V forward voltage drop would be well into the far
ultraviolet, and would still need current regulation).

Professional installations would use a switching constant current supply
(typically called a driver).  Those for amateurs and the average
building contractor would mimic tungsten bulbs by having a constant
current switching regulator in each bulb.

Some cheap mains operated lamps use capacitive droppers followed by
rectifier and resistive current limiter.  They are the type likely to be
sold in one dollar stores, or on Ebay.
#
On 06/01/17 11:50, Marc Veeneman wrote:

> \
>
>> On Jan 6, 2017, at 2:00 AM, Peter D. Vouvounas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I presume some of you have been through a selection process to find a usable
>> dimmable LED desk lamp with articulating arm that does not create RFI back
>> into your Flex on HF.
>>
>>
>
> I mounted (dual side adhesive tape) an LED strip to the underside of an equipment shelf.  The strip came with a 12v switcher that I ignored.  I use my 12 volt supply.  The strip was, I think, 24 inches long and has a dimmer that can be inserted in the power lead.  No RFI.  Plenty bright.  Mine came from Amazon but there are many to choose from these days; you can even select color temperature when you order.
>

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Re: Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position recommendation needed

John Pitz
In reply to this post by Dave AD6A
Actually there is a much simpler way to do this using linear 3 pin
regulators.  Take a fictional regulator that has a fixed output voltage
of 1V.  Assuming you want 15mA through your LEDs, make sure the output
current of the voltage regulator is 15mA by placing a 67 Ohm resistor
from the output pin to ground.  The current out the VOUT of a 3 pin
regulator will be equal to the current at the VIN of the regulator.
Then put your string of LEDs from the "unregulated" voltage in and the
Vin pin of your regulator.  You will have to add up the expected voltage
drops of the LEDs. and subtract that value from the unregulated Voltage
supply.  then subtract the voltage regulators output voltage, in this
case 1V from whats left.  Now, make sure that the remaining voltage is
at least a little bit higher than the dropout voltage of the regulator.
I have done this countless times.  It should be pretty simple to use a
POT and a resistor to dim the LEDs within a preset range, or if your
regulator has a shutdown pin you could PWM it from your favorite
microcontroller.

You should avoid putting LEDs in series when using a simple dropping
resistor.  That scheme will seem to work well for a little while then
you may find your LEDs failing.  In my experience this doesn't work long
term and in this scheme the LEDs fail one by one shorted.  I don't think
the voltage drop on each LED is all that constant over time and
temperature.

73
KD8CIV

On Sat, 2017-01-07 at 02:14 -0800, Dave Fifield wrote:

> An LED is basically a fancy diode, so a linear voltage regulator to control
> its brightness will not work well.
>
> Starting from around 2V output (say) the LED/s will be OFF. As you increase
> the regulator's output voltage, somewhere around 2.5V (depends on the exact
> type of LED you're using), the LED will begin to conduct forward current and
> start to emit light. At this point, increasing the regulator's output
> voltage just a tiny bit will increase the brightness of the LED a lot (it's
> basically an exponential curve). So at just a couple hundred mV above the
> voltage where the LED began to emit light, you will reach full brightness.
> Any further increase in the drive voltage will merely result in the series
> current-limiting resistor dissipating more heat.
>
> What is really needed here is a linearly-variable constant-current generator
> circuit. This is a fairly simple circuit to design, usually consisting of a
> voltage reference, a comparator, and a drive transistor, with some feedback
> from a current sensing resistor. It will need to be designed so that it can
> generate enough voltage to overcome the LED's forward voltage (Vf), and with
> an output current that's variable from 0mA to around 20mA (or whatever the
> LED's maximum forward current (If max) is specified at).
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Cheers es 73,
> Dave
> AD6A
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron
> D'Eau Claire
> Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 8:17 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position
> recommendation needed
>
> A linear voltage regulator is very quiet. That's just a bipolar transistor
> passing the current with adjustable base voltage. I use them on my HB power
> supplies for the same reason. No square switching, no RFI.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill
> Frantz
> Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 6:07 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position
> recommendation needed
>
> To avoid color shifts with dimming, most LED dimmers use Pulse Width
> Modulation (PWM). PWM has the potential to generate RFI, so be careful. The
> LEDs themselves should be very quiet. Using LEDs with resistors to limit the
> current should also be quiet. A system that switches LEDs for brightness
> control would be a safe solution, but I don't know of any commercial systems
> which do this.
>
> On the other hand, I have not noticed a problem with the LED dimmers in my
> house, so perhaps most of the problem is in the wall-wart power supply.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 1/6/17 at 3:50 AM, [hidden email] (Marc Veeneman via Elecraft)
> wrote:
>
> >I mounted (dual side adhesive tape) an LED strip to the underside of an
> >equipment shelf.  The strip came with a 12v switcher that I ignored.  I
> >use my 12 volt supply.  The strip was, I think, 24 inches long and has
> >a dimmer that can be inserted in the power lead.  No RFI.  Plenty
> >bright.  Mine came from Amazon but there are many to choose from these
> >days; you can even select color temperature when you order.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz        | Truth and love must prevail  | Periwinkle
> (408)356-8506      | over lies and hate.          | 16345
> Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com |               - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos,
> CA 95032
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> ---
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> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position recommendation needed

ae5ka
What John says is true. Over time the forward voltage drop of an LED will
decrease somewhat as it ages. It isn't great, and it isn't fast, though it
happens more quickly initially.

The forward voltage drop decreases more dramatically in the short term with
temperature - the higher the die temperature, the lower the forward voltage
drop. This can result in thermal runaway and destruction of the LED when
using a constant voltage supply and not a constant current supply. This can
be mitigated with a current limiting resistor in series, but it does
decrease overall efficiency of the system.

Chip
AE5KA

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 8:45 AM, John Pitz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Actually there is a much simpler way to do this using linear 3 pin
> regulators.  Take a fictional regulator that has a fixed output voltage
> of 1V.  Assuming you want 15mA through your LEDs, make sure the output
> current of the voltage regulator is 15mA by placing a 67 Ohm resistor
> from the output pin to ground.  The current out the VOUT of a 3 pin
> regulator will be equal to the current at the VIN of the regulator.
> Then put your string of LEDs from the "unregulated" voltage in and the
> Vin pin of your regulator.  You will have to add up the expected voltage
> drops of the LEDs. and subtract that value from the unregulated Voltage
> supply.  then subtract the voltage regulators output voltage, in this
> case 1V from whats left.  Now, make sure that the remaining voltage is
> at least a little bit higher than the dropout voltage of the regulator.
> I have done this countless times.  It should be pretty simple to use a
> POT and a resistor to dim the LEDs within a preset range, or if your
> regulator has a shutdown pin you could PWM it from your favorite
> microcontroller.
>
> You should avoid putting LEDs in series when using a simple dropping
> resistor.  That scheme will seem to work well for a little while then
> you may find your LEDs failing.  In my experience this doesn't work long
> term and in this scheme the LEDs fail one by one shorted.  I don't think
> the voltage drop on each LED is all that constant over time and
> temperature.
>
> 73
> KD8CIV
>
> On Sat, 2017-01-07 at 02:14 -0800, Dave Fifield wrote:
>
> > An LED is basically a fancy diode, so a linear voltage regulator to
> control
> > its brightness will not work well.
> >
> > Starting from around 2V output (say) the LED/s will be OFF. As you
> increase
> > the regulator's output voltage, somewhere around 2.5V (depends on the
> exact
> > type of LED you're using), the LED will begin to conduct forward current
> and
> > start to emit light. At this point, increasing the regulator's output
> > voltage just a tiny bit will increase the brightness of the LED a lot
> (it's
> > basically an exponential curve). So at just a couple hundred mV above the
> > voltage where the LED began to emit light, you will reach full
> brightness.
> > Any further increase in the drive voltage will merely result in the
> series
> > current-limiting resistor dissipating more heat.
> >
> > What is really needed here is a linearly-variable constant-current
> generator
> > circuit. This is a fairly simple circuit to design, usually consisting
> of a
> > voltage reference, a comparator, and a drive transistor, with some
> feedback
> > from a current sensing resistor. It will need to be designed so that it
> can
> > generate enough voltage to overcome the LED's forward voltage (Vf), and
> with
> > an output current that's variable from 0mA to around 20mA (or whatever
> the
> > LED's maximum forward current (If max) is specified at).
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Cheers es 73,
> > Dave
> > AD6A
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Ron
> > D'Eau Claire
> > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 8:17 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position
> > recommendation needed
> >
> > A linear voltage regulator is very quiet. That's just a bipolar
> transistor
> > passing the current with adjustable base voltage. I use them on my HB
> power
> > supplies for the same reason. No square switching, no RFI.
> >
> > 73, Ron AC7AC
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Bill
> > Frantz
> > Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 6:07 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Dimmable LED desk lamp for operating position
> > recommendation needed
> >
> > To avoid color shifts with dimming, most LED dimmers use Pulse Width
> > Modulation (PWM). PWM has the potential to generate RFI, so be careful.
> The
> > LEDs themselves should be very quiet. Using LEDs with resistors to limit
> the
> > current should also be quiet. A system that switches LEDs for brightness
> > control would be a safe solution, but I don't know of any commercial
> systems
> > which do this.
> >
> > On the other hand, I have not noticed a problem with the LED dimmers in
> my
> > house, so perhaps most of the problem is in the wall-wart power supply.
> >
> > 73 Bill AE6JV
> >
> > On 1/6/17 at 3:50 AM, [hidden email] (Marc Veeneman via
> Elecraft)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I mounted (dual side adhesive tape) an LED strip to the underside of an
> > >equipment shelf.  The strip came with a 12v switcher that I ignored.  I
> > >use my 12 volt supply.  The strip was, I think, 24 inches long and has
> > >a dimmer that can be inserted in the power lead.  No RFI.  Plenty
> > >bright.  Mine came from Amazon but there are many to choose from these
> > >days; you can even select color temperature when you order.
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Bill Frantz        | Truth and love must prevail  | Periwinkle
> > (408)356-8506      | over lies and hate.          | 16345
> > Englewood Ave
> > www.pwpconsult.com |               - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos,
> > CA 95032
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message
> > delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message
> > delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> >
> > ---
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