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Elecraft Amps

rfenabled
Hmmm, why is it necessary to run 1500 watts?

Seems like a huge investment in amplifiers, antennas, accessories and cables along with the associated maintenance.

We here you guys but you often don't her us. Perhaps power does not replace an efficient antenna system?

Although we are restricted to 400w in VK, most operators seem to do well running around that power anyway.

Is the US different in as much as you have high QRM/QRN ? And 1500 watts is what you need to be heard by other stations?

Just curious, no criticism meant....(:-))

I would still like to see a KPA-500 released regardless of the older pair once mooted.

73's
Gary
Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra
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Re: Elecraft Amps

Bill K9YEQ
High power is helpful to hold onto a frequency.  When another high power amp
comes on and your power is lower, the amp helps, big time.

I was a die hard QRP'er, but on lower bands when the conditions are not
great, the amp makes a huge difference.  I run a THP HL-2.5Kfx whenever
needed and no second thoughts.  When the bands get better, my electric bill
will much lower.  I agree about the comments of Elecraft designing a do it
all amp including the remote tuning option.  The day that happens, The THP
might, not likely, but might hit the used market.  Hard to part with a
perfect output design like this particular THP.  I have tried the rest.
Perhaps the Elecraft amps will use similar design, then who could resist a
build it yourself amp, I couldn't.  Do it now while I have a couple $'s
left.


73,

Bill
K9YEQ
K2 & KX1 (Field tester); K3; W2; mini mods
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:23 PM
To: Elecraft
Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft Amps

Hmmm, why is it necessary to run 1500 watts?

Seems like a huge investment in amplifiers, antennas, accessories and cables
along with the associated maintenance.

We here you guys but you often don't her us. Perhaps power does not replace
an efficient antenna system?

Although we are restricted to 400w in VK, most operators seem to do well
running around that power anyway.

Is the US different in as much as you have high QRM/QRN ? And 1500 watts is
what you need to be heard by other stations?

Just curious, no criticism meant....(:-))

I would still like to see a KPA-500 released regardless of the older pair
once mooted.

73's
Gary
Sent via BlackBerryR from Telstra
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Re: Elecraft Amps

Andreas Junge
In reply to this post by rfenabled
Let me add another data point why a KPA800 makes sense:

I only have 120V in the shack, so I would like to see a solid state amp that can do 800W with a built in power supply. That's probably  the max you can get out of that circuit 15A * 80% *120V = 1440W  max continuos. At 50% efficiency you can do about 800W with that. Adding 220V (208V) is not an option for me and maybe a lot of others.

I already have a TT Hercules II 500W solid state amp, but it runs of 12V with 90A off a battery that is trickle charged.

Andreas, N6NU


On Feb 11, 2010, at 5:22 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hmmm, why is it necessary to run 1500 watts?
>
> Seems like a huge investment in amplifiers, antennas, accessories and cables along with the associated maintenance.
>
> We here you guys but you often don't her us. Perhaps power does not replace an efficient antenna system?
>
> Although we are restricted to 400w in VK, most operators seem to do well running around that power anyway.
>
> Is the US different in as much as you have high QRM/QRN ? And 1500 watts is what you need to be heard by other stations?
>
> Just curious, no criticism meant....(:-))
>
> I would still like to see a KPA-500 released regardless of the older pair once mooted.
>
> 73's
> Gary
> Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Re: Elecraft Amps

Allan Taylor
Gang:

Let's keep this conversation away from being a QRP vs. QRO, VK vs.
W/K, etc. and admit up front that all power levels have their place. It
would seem out of place to run U.S. legal limit on 40 cw ragchewing up
and down the coast, etc. But then a small amp at 300-500W can be useful
to keep the idiots from encroaching on your frequency.

I have had a Tentec Hercules II amp for about 10 years now. In that time I
ended up ignoring the Titan completely. (It finally was sold to N7TR
as a fixer!) The Herc II is remote bandswitched with the OmniVI series
and could easily be done so from a K3 with the Elecraft KRC2, etc.
Having said that (one would think I am pushing for the 500W Elecraft
amp...), I found the Herc II just a little underpowered in contest
situations. So, from my view, a KPA800 or KPA1000 would be perfect. I
have other amps and other transceivers but tend to pair amps/xcvrs by
manufacturer (FT1000MP with Quadra, OmniVI with Herc II, etc.). My K3
would love to have an 800 to 1000W afterburner in Elecraft colors!

Let's keep the autotuners out of the amp. I suspect the technology isn't
stable yet.

Allan K7GT

southern Oregon
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Re: Elecraft Amps

Lu Romero - W4LT
In reply to this post by rfenabled
If you want this, its already out there.  :)

I purchased a 600w solid state "kit" amp, actually, it was a "kit" amp by
happenstance. A brand new Ameritron ALS-600 that I had to do final QC on and
replaced the original Slow-as-Moses TR relay with the AD5X full QSK micro
switch board.

It's a wonderful little amplifier (now), in all honesty, but I would have
happily paid the same amount of money (circa $1,300) for something I could
have built from a box of parts and directly interfaced with the K3.

Building stuff. That is a lot of the fun in Ham Radio for me, because I
don't have the time or tools to design and build from scratch.  

When I started in Ham Radio, I was a Heathkit junkie.  I had a basement full
of two tone green back in the late '70's, and the K3 has reawakened that
addiction, now that the kids are grown and I have time again.

-lu-


Message: 7
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:15:50 -0600
From: WW2PT <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Amps
To: lawrence libsch <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed;
delsp=yes

I'll weigh in, just in case the Aptos crew is taking notes and  
counting votes. ;-)

An off-the-shelf, high-end appliance to compete with THP or SPE would  
be a high-cost, low-volume, low-profit venture, something I would not  
want to undertake in the current economic conditions if I were CEO of  
a small company like Elecraft.

Personally, I'd love a small (500w or 600w) solid-state amplifier kit  
that I can build myself (a *real* kit, with soldering iron and  
everything!). Some of us don't have the time, tools, and/or smarts to  
homebrew such a creature on our own and would jump all over a kit like  
this. It doesn't have to be anything revolutionary, just a simple amp  
built around MRF150's or whatever. Base model would work with any rig  
to make it appeal to the mass market, with options to expand  
functionality (built-in ATU, K2/K3 interface, etc.), kind of like the  
way the K2 is marketed -- buy what you need. If it could be sold for  
less than a comparable Ameritron, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

73,
Paul WW2PT

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Re: Elecraft Amps

DAVID M. Elliott
In reply to this post by Andreas Junge
Check out the Italian Expert 1K FA solid state amp.  

Here is a video:

http://www.radio-ham.eu/video.htm

SteppIR represents them in the USA.

73de W6BK


On Feb 11, 2010, at 5:52 PM, Andreas Junge wrote:

> Let me add another data point why a KPA800 makes sense:
>
> I only have 120V in the shack, so I would like to see a solid state amp that can do 800W with a built in power supply. That's probably  the max you can get out of that circuit 15A * 80% *120V = 1440W  max continuos. At 50% efficiency you can do about 800W with that. Adding 220V (208V) is not an option for me and maybe a lot of others.
>
> I already have a TT Hercules II 500W solid state amp, but it runs of 12V with 90A off a battery that is trickle charged.
>
> Andreas, N6NU
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2010, at 5:22 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> Hmmm, why is it necessary to run 1500 watts?
>>
>> Seems like a huge investment in amplifiers, antennas, accessories and cables along with the associated maintenance.
>>
>> We here you guys but you often don't her us. Perhaps power does not replace an efficient antenna system?
>>
>> Although we are restricted to 400w in VK, most operators seem to do well running around that power anyway.
>>
>> Is the US different in as much as you have high QRM/QRN ? And 1500 watts is what you need to be heard by other stations?
>>
>> Just curious, no criticism meant....(:-))
>>
>> I would still like to see a KPA-500 released regardless of the older pair once mooted.
>>
>> 73's
>> Gary
>> Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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Re: Elecraft Amps

Paul - WW2PT
In reply to this post by Allan Taylor
Yet??? My old JRL-2000F kilowatt had an autotuner in 1995. It worked  
flawlessly.

de WW2PT

On Feb 11, 2010, at 8:59 PM, Allan Taylor wrote:

> Let's keep the autotuners out of the amp. I suspect the technology  
> isn't
> stable yet.

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Re: Elecraft Amps

sm7vzx
In reply to this post by rfenabled
I think that is market for VHF amplifiers too...Look at this site,
http://www.i0jxx.com/index.php?cPath=18_34, it's some kind of modular
approach but without good manuals...

Samir, 7S7V
 

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Re: Elecraft Amps

Larry K1UO
In reply to this post by rfenabled
Whats really needed in a "new" amplifier would be a nice 6 Meter Solid State amp from Elecraft to match up with the K3.  Maybe something in the 500-800 watt range.  
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Re: Elecraft Amps

S Sacco
I hear M2 has one.



On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 7:29 AM, Larry K1UO <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Whats really needed in a "new" amplifier would be a nice 6 Meter Solid
> State
> amp from Elecraft to match up with the K3.  Maybe something in the 500-800
> watt range.
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/Elecraft-Amps-tp4558598p4560802.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Elecraft Amps

Bob Naumann W5OV
Tokyo Hy-Power already makes a solid state amp that works perfectly with the
K3 that covers 160 through 6m and puts out 900w to 1000w on 160 through 10m
and about 650w on 6m and does QSK. This is the HL-1.5KFX. If you've worked
me in a contest recently, the K3 / 1.5KFX combination is what I was using.

As an alternative, the Acom 1000 using a tube final (for those who prefer
valves in their final) is similar in price/output, but it is manually tuned
and runs about 1k out on all bands 160 through 6m.

Rumor has it from Tokyo that a new 160 through 6m, 600w to 700w amp will be
announced/available around Dayton this year. This will be manually
band-switched but no tune-up and will do full QSK.

73,

Bob W5OV
Array Solutions
(THP & Acom)

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of S Sacco
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:08 AM
To: Larry K1UO
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Amps

I hear M2 has one.



On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 7:29 AM, Larry K1UO <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Whats really needed in a "new" amplifier would be a nice 6 Meter Solid
> State
> amp from Elecraft to match up with the K3.  Maybe something in the 500-800
> watt range.
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/Elecraft-Amps-tp4558598p4560802.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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Re: Elecraft Amps

Larry K1UO
In reply to this post by Larry K1UO
Larry K1UO wrote
Whats really needed in a "new" amplifier would be a nice 6 Meter Solid State amp from Elecraft to match up with the K3.  Maybe something in the 500-800 watt range.  
Let me clarify...A 6M amp only... not as p/o the existing 160-6 amp selections currently available.   Seems like its a niche that needs to be filled ..what with all the ease of getting on 6M nowdays.      Also .... M2 does not have a 6M production amp at this time.
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Re: Elecraft Amps -- semi OT

K6LMP
In reply to this post by Larry K1UO
This discussion has featured a wide range of viewpoints, but I think there are several common threads in almost all the postings:

1. Elecraft has done a great job in the past of identifying and filling "niche" markets with quality products at great prices.
2. There are lots of products on the market that generally fill the need for mid-range and high power HF amps that are easy to integrate with the K3 and other rigs.
3. There are  couple of niches in the amplifier arena that aren't currently filled or not filled with a quality product. The "niche" that most posting seem to focus upon is a mid-power (e.g. 500 watts or maybe 800) compact SS amp, ideally with "add on" capability for expanding power output incrementally, auto tuner capability, auto bandswitching, portable, and either full kit or semi-kit. I concur that this represents a potential target of opportunity, if it can be made and sold profitably.

I think there are other potential "new product" areas where Elecraft could distinguish itself with a unique product that doesn't have a lot of competition in the market today. These include:

1. A switchable VHF/UHF amplifier, 300 watts output or more, all modes, that would seamlessly integrate with a K3 being used with the full array of Elecraft transverters -- 2 meters, 1.25 meters and 70 cm in one amp, all controllable through the rig itself.  (and, of course, flexible enough that non-K3 users could integrate it into their station easily.) I don't know enough about amplifier design to know if ta single amplifier that functions from 50 through 440 mhz is feasible, but I'm not aware of anything like it on the market.

2. a compact VHF-UHF transceiver that would provide the same functionality as the K3, but starting at 50 mHz and going "up the bands" all the way to visible light. (OK, all the way to 1296 mhz). Yaesu offered such a product some years ago, the FT-736.  Even though that rig is ancient by today's design standards, a fully tricked-out FT-736 with 50, 144, 222, and 432 mhz modules installed sells easily for $2,000.  A 1296 mHz module recently sold on ebay for $750. 222 mhz modules, when occasionally available from SK auctions, have sold for $1K. You want to talk about a niche that offers high margins?  This is one, for sure.  And it's a natural for the "modularized" design philosophy that makes the K3 so attractive. (Note, of course, that the amplifier described above would be a marriage made in heaven with a "FT736 on steroids."  I would sell my car and take public transit to work, if necessary, to obtain such a rig.

3. a kit-form antenna analyzer.  High quality at an MFJ price, or less. There are a few "club sponsored" kits floating around, but i haven't seen anything that inspires me to  click the "add to shopping cart" button.

4. Computer-based o-scope. Standard o-scope probes on one end, a little black box in the middle, and a USB cable on the other end. Of course, you'd need to provide software as well. I'd STRONGLY urge that it be written in a programming language that can easily be compiled for Mac OS X and Linux as well as Windows.


Lew K6LMP


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Re: Elecraft Amps

Brendan Minish
In reply to this post by Bob Naumann W5OV
On Fri, 2010-02-12 at 08:33 -0600, Bob Naumann wrote:

> As an alternative, the Acom 1000 using a tube final (for those who prefer
> valves in their final) is similar in price/output, but it is manually tuned
> and runs about 1k out on all bands 160 through 6m.

I have (heavily) used my Acom1000 for nearly 9 years now. It works great
with my K3 on all bands. It is a full QSK amp.
I have also used it for 6m EME  
I have had a few small issues with the Acom over the years, in each case
Acom's support was both speedy and superb

--
73
Brendan EI6IZ

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Re: Elecraft Amps

David Cutter
There must be a really good reason why amplifiers don't use on-board
switching supplies to get the weight and size down even further.  An awful
lot of folks are using rigs powered by switchers which are obviously quiet
enough.  Ameritron is an exception, but it's still outboard.

Perhaps an Elecraft amplifier would be good for dxpeditioners just as is the
K3, ie concentration on light weight and performance.

David
G3UNA



> On Fri, 2010-02-12 at 08:33 -0600, Bob Naumann wrote:
>
>> As an alternative, the Acom 1000 using a tube final (for those who prefer
>> valves in their final) is similar in price/output, but it is manually
>> tuned
>> and runs about 1k out on all bands 160 through 6m.
>
> I have (heavily) used my Acom1000 for nearly 9 years now. It works great
> with my K3 on all bands. It is a full QSK amp.
> I have also used it for 6m EME
> I have had a few small issues with the Acom over the years, in each case
> Acom's support was both speedy and superb
>
> --
> 73
> Brendan EI6IZ
>
>
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Re: Elecraft Amps

Matt Palmer-4
David, there is no reason they couldn't package it with the PA other
than input source differences. If its a single platform, or use PA, we
will include power conditioning with it. The cases where we dont the
PA is used on multiple platforms and has to run from 1275, 704, 400
cycle, 3 phase etc. And it makes sense for the power conditioner to be
a platform independent kit. If you look at most radios as well, they
require the power supply external.... so you have the choice depending
on where you are plugging it in or if you are running of batteries.


Matt
W8ESE



On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 1:51 PM, David Cutter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There must be a really good reason why amplifiers don't use on-board
> switching supplies to get the weight and size down even further.  An awful
> lot of folks are using rigs powered by switchers which are obviously quiet
> enough.  Ameritron is an exception, but it's still outboard.
>
> Perhaps an Elecraft amplifier would be good for dxpeditioners just as is the
> K3, ie concentration on light weight and performance.
>
> David
> G3UNA
>
>
>
>> On Fri, 2010-02-12 at 08:33 -0600, Bob Naumann wrote:
>>
>>> As an alternative, the Acom 1000 using a tube final (for those who prefer
>>> valves in their final) is similar in price/output, but it is manually
>>> tuned
>>> and runs about 1k out on all bands 160 through 6m.
>>
>> I have (heavily) used my Acom1000 for nearly 9 years now. It works great
>> with my K3 on all bands. It is a full QSK amp.
>> I have also used it for 6m EME
>> I have had a few small issues with the Acom over the years, in each case
>> Acom's support was both speedy and superb
>>
>> --
>> 73
>> Brendan EI6IZ
>>
>>
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Re: Elecraft Amps -- semi OT

Bill K9YEQ
In reply to this post by K6LMP
Lew,

Could we car pool?


73,

Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----


2. .....

Lew K6LMP


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Re: Elecraft Amps

Phil & Debbie Salas
In reply to this post by David Cutter
"There must be a really good reason why amplifiers don't use on-board
switching supplies ..."

The THP HL-1.1 has a built-in switcher.

Phil - AD5X
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Re: Elecraft Amps

David Cutter
Is that the exception that proves the rule?

David
G3UNA




> "There must be a really good reason why amplifiers don't use on-board
> switching supplies ..."
>
> The THP HL-1.1 has a built-in switcher.
>
> Phil - AD5X
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Re: Elecraft Amps

Phil & Debbie Salas
Just pointing it out.  However, my preference is to keep the power supply
separate.  That way you have two fairly simple units, rather than one more
complex unit.  Easier to maintain in my opinion.

Phil - AD5X

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Cutter" <[hidden email]>
To: "Phil & Debbie Salas" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Amps


> Is that the exception that proves the rule?
>
> David
> G3UNA
>
>
>
>
>> "There must be a really good reason why amplifiers don't use on-board
>> switching supplies ..."
>>
>> The THP HL-1.1 has a built-in switcher.
>>
>> Phil - AD5X
>

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