Fixed audio output missing on the KX3?

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Fixed audio output missing on the KX3?

Martin Storli - LA8OKA
I was going thrugh the manual today, and it seems that a fixed audio output is missing entirely from the KX3, why?
Fixed audio output is important for us who routinely run digimodes.
There is also a lack of a separate audio input, which is just as important when running digimodes.
 
So to run digimodes, it seems to me that I will have to disconnect the microphone and connect a suitable audio interface to the mic connector, and also to the speaker/headphone output, then I need to adjust the mic gain and the speaker volume on the KX3, and then do similar adjustments on the interface/PC. Quite cumbersome, when it all should have been included in an ACC connector on the KX3.
Both the FT-817 and the IC-703 have miniDIN connectors on the back with audio in, audio out and PTT, something similar would have been a big advantage on the KX3 when running digimodes.
 
When microphone and headphone jacks are used for digimodes, it will mute the speaker, and it will make it take unnecessary long time to change from digimodes to SSB/CW and vice versa.
 
Yes, I know that the KX-3 utility program supports CW, RTTY and PSK-31 through the digital interface, but that program is kind of limited in functionality and modes. On the FT-817 and IC-703 and others as well, it's just a matter of changing the frequency and the mode (if the Data modes are employed).
 
I think this is a real shortcomming on the KX3!
 
Will it be possible for a future upgrade to the KX3 to install a miniDIN (or a separate jack) to accommodate a fixed level audio output, audio input and PTT input? (Yes, I understand that drilling or case replacement will be involved is such an upgrade.)
 
The best upgrade will of course be a built-in USB Interface with and integrated USB sound card, like the IC-7600, TS-590 etc...
  
Martin Storli
LA8OKA
Oslo, Norway
 
ARCTICPEAK's Radio pages!
http://www.arcticpeak.com/radio.htm
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Re: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3?

wayne burdick
Administrator
Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:

> It seems that a fixed audio output is missing entirely from the KX3,  
> why?....

Hi Martin,

Our goal was to make the KX3 the smallest, lightest, most portable all-
band/all-mode radio ever. We had to draw the line somewhere on  
features, battery size, number of controls, I/O connectors, etc.  
Included are features that felt would be used most often in portable  
settings.

Audio-based data modes are a good example: we fully support these  
modes, but as you pointed out there's the small inconvenience of  
sharing audio I/O with headphones and speaker.

On the other hand, PSK31 and RTTY can also be supported by the KX3  
with nothing but the serial port (using ASCII send/receive commands).  
So we're providing a very usable alternative for the two most popular  
digital modes. You can use the Terminal function in KX3 Utility,  
running on PC/Mac/Linux, to do full data communications in CW, RTTY,  
and PSK31 modes.

I don't think we can support digital audio data over our serial port,  
but if figure out how to do it, I'll let you know.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Re: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3? -> and in the K3

Peter-64
Wayne

With all the digital modes popping up and audio recording it will be
nice if the K3 will have fixed level line output
In 2010 there was short email converstation about this subject, but
Lyle, KK7P, was then (still) in the consider mode

Will you look at this long time wanted feature?

Peter
PC2A

Wayne Burdick schreef:

> Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:
>
>  
>> It seems that a fixed audio output is missing entirely from the KX3,  
>> why?....
>>    
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> Our goal was to make the KX3 the smallest, lightest, most portable all-
> band/all-mode radio ever. We had to draw the line somewhere on  
> features, battery size, number of controls, I/O connectors, etc.  
> Included are features that felt would be used most often in portable  
> settings.
>
> Audio-based data modes are a good example: we fully support these  
> modes, but as you pointed out there's the small inconvenience of  
> sharing audio I/O with headphones and speaker.
>
> On the other hand, PSK31 and RTTY can also be supported by the KX3  
> with nothing but the serial port (using ASCII send/receive commands).  
> So we're providing a very usable alternative for the two most popular  
> digital modes. You can use the Terminal function in KX3 Utility,  
> running on PC/Mac/Linux, to do full data communications in CW, RTTY,  
> and PSK31 modes.
>
> I don't think we can support digital audio data over our serial port,  
> but if figure out how to do it, I'll let you know.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>  

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Re: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3? -> and in the K3

Stephen G4SJP
This may be a really silly impractical idea, but could not the I/Q output
socket be selected in setup to be either line audio out or I/Q?

73 Stephen G4SJP

On 1 May 2012 10:17, Peter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Wayne
>
> With all the digital modes popping up and audio recording it will be
> nice if the K3 will have fixed level line output
> In 2010 there was short email converstation about this subject, but
> Lyle, KK7P, was then (still) in the consider mode
>
> Will you look at this long time wanted feature?
>
> Peter
> PC2A
>
> Wayne Burdick schreef:
> > Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:
> >
> >
> >> It seems that a fixed audio output is missing entirely from the KX3,
> >> why?....
> >>
> >
> > Hi Martin,
> >
> > Our goal was to make the KX3 the smallest, lightest, most portable all-
> > band/all-mode radio ever. We had to draw the line somewhere on
> > features, battery size, number of controls, I/O connectors, etc.
> > Included are features that felt would be used most often in portable
> > settings.
> >
> > Audio-based data modes are a good example: we fully support these
> > modes, but as you pointed out there's the small inconvenience of
> > sharing audio I/O with headphones and speaker.
> >
> > On the other hand, PSK31 and RTTY can also be supported by the KX3
> > with nothing but the serial port (using ASCII send/receive commands).
> > So we're providing a very usable alternative for the two most popular
> > digital modes. You can use the Terminal function in KX3 Utility,
> > running on PC/Mac/Linux, to do full data communications in CW, RTTY,
> > and PSK31 modes.
> >
> > I don't think we can support digital audio data over our serial port,
> > but if figure out how to do it, I'll let you know.
> >
> > 73,
> > Wayne
> > N6KR
> >
> >
>
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Re: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3? -> and in the K3

wayne burdick
Administrator
No; these circuits are on different PCBs, and there's no space for  
cables or switching components.

Wayne
N6KR

On May 1, 2012, at 2:36 AM, Stephen Prior wrote:

> This may be a really silly impractical idea, but could not the I/Q  
> output
> socket be selected in setup to be either line audio out or I/Q?
>
> 73 Stephen G4SJP
>
> On 1 May 2012 10:17, Peter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Wayne
>>
>> With all the digital modes popping up and audio recording it will be
>> nice if the K3 will have fixed level line output
>> In 2010 there was short email converstation about this subject, but
>> Lyle, KK7P, was then (still) in the consider mode
>>
>> Will you look at this long time wanted feature?
>>
>> Peter
>> PC2A
>>
>> Wayne Burdick schreef:
>>> Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> It seems that a fixed audio output is missing entirely from the  
>>>> KX3,
>>>> why?....
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Martin,
>>>
>>> Our goal was to make the KX3 the smallest, lightest, most portable  
>>> all-
>>> band/all-mode radio ever. We had to draw the line somewhere on
>>> features, battery size, number of controls, I/O connectors, etc.
>>> Included are features that felt would be used most often in portable
>>> settings.
>>>
>>> Audio-based data modes are a good example: we fully support these
>>> modes, but as you pointed out there's the small inconvenience of
>>> sharing audio I/O with headphones and speaker.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, PSK31 and RTTY can also be supported by the KX3
>>> with nothing but the serial port (using ASCII send/receive  
>>> commands).
>>> So we're providing a very usable alternative for the two most  
>>> popular
>>> digital modes. You can use the Terminal function in KX3 Utility,
>>> running on PC/Mac/Linux, to do full data communications in CW, RTTY,
>>> and PSK31 modes.
>>>
>>> I don't think we can support digital audio data over our serial  
>>> port,
>>> but if figure out how to do it, I'll let you know.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
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Re: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3?

Edward R Cole
In reply to this post by Martin Storli - LA8OKA
Just wondering "out loud" on this.  Could firmware be added for the
KX3 under the data modes to set the audio gain to a fixed
value?  This would provide the desired levelized audio output with no
hardware upgrades or addition.

Connecting to the baseband audio has already been addressed in the
current design.

This does not address transmit audio issues but there seems a couple
alternatives for that (mic input or GPIO and only requires an
external pot for setting level).  I have already offered to come up
with an I/F "critter" for those that want to use computer-based
soundcard sw (but told to hold off I bit until more have the radio).


73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
"Kits made by KL7UW" http://www.kl7uw.com/kits.htm
======================================
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Re: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3? -> and in the K3

Peter-64
In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Ok,

Its no possible in the KX3. But it IS possible in the K3!
Will you please add this feature?

Peter

Wayne Burdick schreef:

> No; these circuits are on different PCBs, and there's no space for  
> cables or switching components.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> On May 1, 2012, at 2:36 AM, Stephen Prior wrote:
>
>  
>> This may be a really silly impractical idea, but could not the I/Q  
>> output
>> socket be selected in setup to be either line audio out or I/Q?
>>
>> 73 Stephen G4SJP
>>
>> On 1 May 2012 10:17, Peter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>    
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>> With all the digital modes popping up and audio recording it will be
>>> nice if the K3 will have fixed level line output
>>> In 2010 there was short email converstation about this subject, but
>>> Lyle, KK7P, was then (still) in the consider mode
>>>
>>> Will you look at this long time wanted feature?
>>>
>>> Peter
>>> PC2A
>>>
>>>      

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Re: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3? -> and in the K3

W7GJ, Lance
On 5/1/2012 6:13 PM, Peter wrote:
> Ok,
>
> Its no possible in the KX3. But it IS possible in the K3!
> Will you please add this feature?
>
> Peter
>
>
It IS ALREADY in the K3!  The audio output from the LINE OUT is a constant output,
set by the menu!  GL and VY 73, Lance

--
Lance Collister, W7GJ
(ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT   59834-0073
USA
TEL: (406) 626-5728
QTH: DN27ub
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Skype: lanceW7GJ
2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815

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Re: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3? -> and in the K3

wayne burdick
Administrator
We may add LINE IN/OUT levels to the KX3 so that when you select DATA  
A or AFSK A data sub-modes, these levels will be used automatically.  
As with the K3, MIC GAIN would become LINE IN level, and AF GAIN would  
become LINE OUT level.

Wayne


On May 1, 2012, at 11:38 AM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:

> On 5/1/2012 6:13 PM, Peter wrote:
>> Ok,
>>
>> Its no possible in the KX3. But it IS possible in the K3!
>> Will you please add this feature?
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
> It IS ALREADY in the K3!  The audio output from the LINE OUT is a  
> constant output,
> set by the menu!  GL and VY 73, Lance
>
> --
> Lance Collister, W7GJ
> (ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ)
> P.O. Box 73
> Frenchtown, MT   59834-0073
> USA
> TEL: (406) 626-5728
> QTH: DN27ub
> URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
> Windows Messenger: [hidden email]
> Skype: lanceW7GJ
> 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815
>
> Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME
> email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web
> page (above)!
>
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Re: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3? -> and in the K3

Tom Azlin N4ZPT-2
That would work nicely. Please do add this.  Perhaps also in the Data A
or AFSK A modes compression is also turned off?  Can always split some
of the audio off for background awareness. 73, tom n4zpt



On 5/1/2012 3:00 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> We may add LINE IN/OUT levels to the KX3 so that when you select DATA
> A or AFSK A data sub-modes, these levels will be used automatically.
> As with the K3, MIC GAIN would become LINE IN level, and AF GAIN would
> become LINE OUT level.
>
> Wayne
>
>
> On May 1, 2012, at 11:38 AM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:
>
>> On 5/1/2012 6:13 PM, Peter wrote:
>>> Ok,
>>>
>>> Its no possible in the KX3. But it IS possible in the K3!
>>> Will you please add this feature?
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>> It IS ALREADY in the K3!  The audio output from the LINE OUT is a
>> constant output,
>> set by the menu!  GL and VY 73, Lance
>>
>> --
>> Lance Collister, W7GJ
>> (ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ)
>> P.O. Box 73
>> Frenchtown, MT   59834-0073
>> USA
>> TEL: (406) 626-5728
>> QTH: DN27ub
>> URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
>> Windows Messenger: [hidden email]
>> Skype: lanceW7GJ
>> 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815
>>
>> Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME
>> email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web
>> page (above)!
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
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Re: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3? -> and in the K3

wayne burdick
Administrator

On May 1, 2012, at 2:01 PM, Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote:

> That would work nicely. Please do add this.  Perhaps also in the  
> Data A
> or AFSK A modes compression is also turned off?

Yes.

Wayne


> Can always split some
> of the audio off for background awareness. 73, tom n4zpt
>
>
>
> On 5/1/2012 3:00 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> We may add LINE IN/OUT levels to the KX3 so that when you select DATA
>> A or AFSK A data sub-modes, these levels will be used automatically.
>> As with the K3, MIC GAIN would become LINE IN level, and AF GAIN  
>> would
>> become LINE OUT level.
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>> On May 1, 2012, at 11:38 AM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/1/2012 6:13 PM, Peter wrote:
>>>> Ok,
>>>>
>>>> Its no possible in the KX3. But it IS possible in the K3!
>>>> Will you please add this feature?
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It IS ALREADY in the K3!  The audio output from the LINE OUT is a
>>> constant output,
>>> set by the menu!  GL and VY 73, Lance
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lance Collister, W7GJ
>>> (ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ)
>>> P.O. Box 73
>>> Frenchtown, MT   59834-0073
>>> USA
>>> TEL: (406) 626-5728
>>> QTH: DN27ub
>>> URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
>>> Windows Messenger: [hidden email]
>>> Skype: lanceW7GJ
>>> 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815
>>>
>>> Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band  
>>> EME
>>> email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web
>>> page (above)!
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
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Vedr: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3?

Martin Storli - LA8OKA
In reply to this post by wayne burdick
I'm well aware of the fact that the KX3 is a transceiver aimed at the portable market, and that's the reason I have ordered one.
But portable, does not only means trail friendly, it also means that the transceiver is suitable to bring with me on air travel, and for me, I will probably use the KX3 more during business trips, than on the trail.
When I ordered the KX3, they following items where of high importance: * - Size. (The KX3 have a smaller volume (at least in the spec sheet) than the FT-817) This is very important when traveling. Since I travel a lot in my work, I'm very restricted on space because I usually have a lot of tools, instruments and spare parts with me, not to forget the usual stuff, clothes, toothbrush etc.
        * - Performance. (The KX3 is supposed to be a high performance transceiver, much better than my current traveling work horses, the FT-817 and the IC-703.)
        * Wide range antenna tuner. (Very important when I have to use less than ideal antennas in the field and from hotels etc...)
        * Flexibility. (The KX3 is not as flexible as the FT-817 and IC-703 when it comes to digimodes, but have the potential. The possibility to use a terminal connection for CW, PSK31 and RTTY is a big plus, but is limited to only viewing one signal at the time due to the nature of terminal viewing and limitation of the humans. (I don't think any humans would be able to read multiple signals in a text only terminal window.) The reason that the FT-817 and IC-703 is more flexible when it comes to digimodes is simply that to change from digimode to voice and back, there isn't any need to change any connectors and cables, both the digimode interface and the mic can be attached at the same time, a big advantage when going back and fourth between digimodes and voice. On other items regarding the flexibility, the KX3 shores high, the dual watch isn't possible on any competing portable rigs. The same goes for bandwith selection.)
        * Current consumption. (When space is limited, power is also limited. The KX3 is promised to have a low receive current, about 1/3 of the FT-817 and IC-703.)
 
A miniDIN connector will not take up much space, actually less space than a mini jack because it's more shallow, so I think it should be space for the connector on the side of the KX3.
 
Regarding the internal data decoder/encoder, I hope you also can be able to include PSK-63 and PSK-125 as these modes are gaining popularity, especial for DX-stations in pile-ups due to the speed.
 

Martin Storli
LA8OKA
Oslo, Norway
 
ARCTICPEAK's Radio pages!
http://www.arcticpeak.com/radio.htm

Fra: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
Til: Martin Storli - LA8OKA <[hidden email]>
Kopi: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sendt: Tirsdag, 1. mai 2012 3.27
Emne: Re: [Elecraft] Fixed audio output missing on the KX3?

Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:

> It seems that a fixed audio output is missing entirely from the KX3, why?....

Hi Martin,

Our goal was to make the KX3 the smallest, lightest, most portable all-band/all-mode radio ever. We had to draw the line somewhere on features, battery size, number of controls, I/O connectors, etc. Included are features that felt would be used most often in portable settings.

Audio-based data modes are a good example: we fully support these modes, but as you pointed out there's the small inconvenience of sharing audio I/O with headphones and speaker.

On the other hand, PSK31 and RTTY can also be supported by the KX3 with nothing but the serial port (using ASCII send/receive commands). So we're providing a very usable alternative for the two most popular digital modes. You can use the Terminal function in KX3 Utility, running on PC/Mac/Linux, to do full data communications in CW, RTTY, and PSK31 modes.

I don't think we can support digital audio data over our serial port, but if figure out how to do it, I'll let you know.

73,
Wayne
N6KR
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Re: Vedr: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3?

wayne burdick
Administrator
Martin,

> A miniDIN connector will not take up much space, actually less space  
> than a mini jack because it's more shallow, so I think it should be  
> space for the connector on the side of the KX3.

There is no space inside the KX3 for new connectors. Any additional  
support for audio-based data modes must be obtained using the existing  
connectors, along with MCU and DSP firmware changes.


> Regarding the internal data decoder/encoder, I hope you also can be  
> able to include PSK-63 and PSK-125 as these modes are gaining  
> popularity, especial for DX-stations in pile-ups due to the speed.

Both of these should be possible.

73,
Wayne
N6KR




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Re: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3? -> and in the K3

WB0OEW
In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Any movement on this idea for linein-out during data modes on kx3?



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Re: Fixed audio output missing on the KX3? -> and in the K3

Nr4c
I doubt it at time.  

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Oct 22, 2017, at 10:22 PM, WB0OEW <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Any movement on this idea for linein-out during data modes on kx3?
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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