Full Break-In (QSK)

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Full Break-In (QSK)

K9MA
One of the things I miss is being able to hear between the dits, not
just the letters. I know part of that is due to the inherent latency of
DSP filters. In any case, I finally got around to actually measuring it.
I just used a keyer with 50 percent weighting, and N1MM to set the
speed. I found that the K3 could just barely hear something between the
dits at 22 wpm, while my old FT-1000D could at 34 wpm. Both at 500 Hz
bandwidth, fast AGC. The K3 has the new synthesizers. I did the test by
listening to an S-7 carrier and sweeping the RIT back and forth while
transmitting dits. Below the above speeds, I could just detect the
change in pitch.

Increasing the bandwidth and turning off the AGC didn't make much
difference.

I didn't try the QRQ mode on the K3.

It will be interesting to see how the K4 compares.

73,

Scott K9MA

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Re: Full Break-In (QSK)

E.H. Russell
As I recall the FT-1000D accomplished that by shortening the dits and
producing an astonishing clatter.


THANKS,
73 ED W2RF



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of K9MA
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 12:26 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Full Break-In (QSK)

One of the things I miss is being able to hear between the dits, not just
the letters. I know part of that is due to the inherent latency of DSP
filters. In any case, I finally got around to actually measuring it.
I just used a keyer with 50 percent weighting, and N1MM to set the speed. I
found that the K3 could just barely hear something between the dits at 22
wpm, while my old FT-1000D could at 34 wpm. Both at 500 Hz bandwidth, fast
AGC. The K3 has the new synthesizers. I did the test by listening to an S-7
carrier and sweeping the RIT back and forth while transmitting dits. Below
the above speeds, I could just detect the change in pitch.

Increasing the bandwidth and turning off the AGC didn't make much
difference.

I didn't try the QRQ mode on the K3.

It will be interesting to see how the K4 compares.

73,

Scott K9MA

--
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Full Break-In (QSK)

ANDY DURBIN
In reply to this post by K9MA
A few years ago I ran a series of CW keying tests on my Kenwood TS-590S.  I found that, when configured for full break-in, the RX did not have time to "wake up" at speeds faster than about 26 wpm even though T/R switching completed much faster than that.  Based on that test data I abandoned full QSK and now only listen between characters.  That's no handicap at all with my CW skill level and it significantly reduces the number of T/R relay cycles.

I'm surprised hear that the K3 has a similar limitation.   Does it really?

Andy, k3wyc
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Re: Full Break-In (QSK)

K9MA
In reply to this post by E.H. Russell
The dits are a bit short on the FT-1000 in QSK mode, but I don't know
how much difference that makes. The FT-1000, in any case, is much slower
that some of the receivers I used long ago. Alas, I have none of them to
test.

The FT-1000 is notorious for its key clicks, the reason I don't use it
any more. I don't think that is related to QSK, as it's just as bad in
PTT mode.

73,
Scott K9MA



On 1/17/2020 05:17, E.H. Russell wrote:

> As I recall the FT-1000D accomplished that by shortening the dits and
> producing an astonishing clatter.
>
>
> THANKS,
> 73 ED W2RF
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
> Behalf Of K9MA
> Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 12:26 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Full Break-In (QSK)
>
> One of the things I miss is being able to hear between the dits, not just
> the letters. I know part of that is due to the inherent latency of DSP
> filters. In any case, I finally got around to actually measuring it.
> I just used a keyer with 50 percent weighting, and N1MM to set the speed. I
> found that the K3 could just barely hear something between the dits at 22
> wpm, while my old FT-1000D could at 34 wpm. Both at 500 Hz bandwidth, fast
> AGC. The K3 has the new synthesizers. I did the test by listening to an S-7
> carrier and sweeping the RIT back and forth while transmitting dits. Below
> the above speeds, I could just detect the change in pitch.
>
> Increasing the bandwidth and turning off the AGC didn't make much
> difference.
>
> I didn't try the QRQ mode on the K3.
>
> It will be interesting to see how the K4 compares.
>
> 73,
>
> Scott K9MA
>
> --
> Scott  K9MA
>
> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Re: Full Break-In (QSK)

Jim Brown-10
On 1/17/2020 11:56 AM, K9MA wrote:
> The FT-1000 is notorious for its key clicks

There were hardware mods to significantly reduce the clicks, but even
then the FT1000-series is a pretty broad rig by modern standards, as are
current production Yaesu rigs.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Full Break-In (QSK)

Ignacy
In reply to this post by K9MA
With TX/RX switching and DSP, K3 can do only so much.

For K3 with 2nd RX, perhaps a new firmware can add a trick from Flex 6600.
While basic QSK in Flex is slow due to DSP delays, it is very good if 2nd rx
is used for receiving in duplex mode. All what is needed is to mute 2nd rx
during transmitting and switch ANT to 2nd rx after that.

It may be too much programming for Elecraft, though.

Ignacy, NO9E




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Re: Full Break-In (QSK)

K9MA
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Yes, I did those mods to my FT-1000D long ago. It helped, but it's still
pretty bad. I can detect the FT1000's a (couple thousand) mile(s) away
on the P3.

73,
Scott K9MA


On 1/17/2020 14:14, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 1/17/2020 11:56 AM, K9MA wrote:
>> The FT-1000 is notorious for its key clicks
>
> There were hardware mods to significantly reduce the clicks, but even
> then the FT1000-series is a pretty broad rig by modern standards, as
> are current production Yaesu rigs.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]


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Re: Full Break-In (QSK)

Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS
...and back to original K3 QSK question please.
Anybody tested it?




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