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Is the K3 have low sensitivity on 10 M and 6 M

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Is the K3 have low sensitivity on 10 M and 6 M

KC6CNN
I am curious why a fellow ham and I who both live within two blocks of each other and have the same wire antenna, Except mine is a little higher. I have the K3 and he has a Kenwood and Yaesu and he is working people on 10 meters while I can only hear static. The same goes for 6 meters. I think I have worked maybe two stations on 10 meters. Those were the ones I heard. It the stock K3 sensitivity that far behind the others on 10 meters?

Thanks in advance
Gerald - KC6CNN

KC6CNN - Gerald
K1 # 0014
K3 # 6294
KX3 # 757
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Re: Is the K3 have low sensitivity on 10 M and 6 M

wayne burdick
Gerald,

The K3's original preamp provides an MDS of about -135 to -136 dBm on 10 and 6 meters. This should suffice unless you have an extremely low noise floor. If you do, then you can install the KXV3B option, which has a second preamp that has a much better MDS -- around -144 to -145 dBm.

The K3S comes with the KXV3B option.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Oct 12, 2016, at 5:46 PM, KC6CNN <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am curious why a fellow ham and I who both live within two blocks of each
> other and have the same wire antenna, Except mine is a little higher. I have
> the K3 and he has a Kenwood and Yaesu and he is working people on 10 meters
> while I can only hear static. The same goes for 6 meters. I think I have
> worked maybe two stations on 10 meters. Those were the ones I heard. It the
> stock K3 sensitivity that far behind the others on 10 meters?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Gerald - KC6CNN
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> KC6CNN - Gerald
> K1 # 0014
> K3 # 6294
> KX3 # 757
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Is-the-K3-have-low-sensitivity-on-10-M-and-6-M-tp7623290.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Is the K3 have low sensitivity on 10 M and 6 M

Bill Frantz
In reply to this post by KC6CNN
If you are hearing static, then you have enough sensitivity. It
sounds like the problem may be a very local source of noise
which is drowning out the signals at your QTH, while your friend
is far enough away from that source to not be bothered by it.
Try using a portable radio to search for the static source.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 10/12/16 at 5:46 PM, [hidden email] (KC6CNN) wrote:

>I am curious why a fellow ham and I who both live within two blocks of each
>other and have the same wire antenna, Except mine is a little higher. I have
>the K3 and he has a Kenwood and Yaesu and he is working people on 10 meters
>while I can only hear static. The same goes for 6 meters. I think I have
>worked maybe two stations on 10 meters. Those were the ones I heard. It the
>stock K3 sensitivity that far behind the others on 10 meters?
>
>Thanks in advance
>Gerald - KC6CNN
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Is the K3 have low sensitivity on 10 M and 6 M

Jim Brown-10
I think Bill's right, but if your QTH is reasonably quiet, you DO need a
preamp on 12, 10, and 6M for the original K3. The outboard preamp for
the K3 solved that problem, but the new preamp that's part of the KXV3B
module does it even better. I've upgraded my K3s to the new KXV3B, and
am very happy.

My QTH is pretty quiet except when I point the Yagi in the direction of
my neighbor's solar system. In those quiet directions, the preamp adds
several dB of weak signals that I wouldn't hear without it. Before that,
I had a ARR GasFET preamp in front of the radio I used on 6M that also
worked on 10M, and it was at least as good as the new preamp.

So the executive summary is, "yes, the K3 doesn't hear very well on 10
and 6 without a preamp."

73, Jim K9YC

On Wed,10/12/2016 9:49 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:

> If you are hearing static, then you have enough sensitivity. It sounds
> like the problem may be a very local source of noise which is drowning
> out the signals at your QTH, while your friend is far enough away from
> that source to not be bothered by it. Try using a portable radio to
> search for the static source.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 10/12/16 at 5:46 PM, [hidden email] (KC6CNN) wrote:
>
>> I am curious why a fellow ham and I who both live within two blocks
>> of each
>> other and have the same wire antenna, Except mine is a little higher.
>> I have
>> the K3 and he has a Kenwood and Yaesu and he is working people on 10
>> meters
>> while I can only hear static. The same goes for 6 meters. I think I have
>> worked maybe two stations on 10 meters. Those were the ones I heard.
>> It the
>> stock K3 sensitivity that far behind the others on 10 meters?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>> Gerald - KC6CNN
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz        | I don't have high-speed      | Periwinkle
> (408)356-8506      | internet. I have DSL.        | 16345 Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com |                              | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Re: Is the K3 have low sensitivity on 10 M and 6 M

Edward R Cole
In reply to this post by KC6CNN
How old is the K3?  I bought the PR6-10 from a ham who was upgrading
to the KXV3B.  It made my K3 (SN 4340) circa 2010 much better on 10m
and 6m.  I even copied some 6m-eme* signals with the PR6-10 using my
6-element yagi in August of 2015.

I now have a 6m GasFet preamp at tower top and it is a little bit
better but only noticeably on 6m-eme.  It has a little more gain so
my s-meter runs higher with noise, but on terrestrial contacts can't
say its any better than the PR6-10 (which also helps 10m).  Before
getting either preamp 10m was pretty quiet of signals (with Hygain TH3mk4).

What is interesting is my KX3 does as well or maybe slightly more
sensitive on 6m (of course with internal preamp on).

*Note: now QRV on 6m-eme with 900w.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
     "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
     [hidden email]

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Re: Is the K3 have low sensitivity on 10 M and 6 M

Bill W4ZV
In reply to this post by KC6CNN
1.  Is your PREamp turned on for 10m?  Hopefully you don't accidentally have RX ANT activated.  
2.  Please describe your antenna in more detail, including orientation.
3.  I've never needed a preamp on 10m in the 8 years I've had a K3, but my antenna system has a lot of gain.

73,  Bill  W4ZV
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Re: Is the K3 have low sensitivity on 10 M and 6 M

k6dgw
Re #3: I never have either.  While a thorough analysis of "To Preamp or
Not to Preamp" is complex and very situational, the antenna check is
really a very good indicator:

Remove the antenna and note the noise produced by the K3.  Connect the
antenna.  If the noise rises, adding a preamp at the radio isn't likely
to do much for you.  At the antenna, it can compensate for loss in the
transmission line, but that's not likely very high on 10m or even 6m
unless your coax is very long or full of water.

My experience is:  When the noise rises by connecting the antenna and I
still can't hear the signals, I need a better antenna. [:-)

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Sparks NV DM09dn

- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 7-8 Oct 2017
- www.cqp.org

On 10/13/2016 5:46 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:
> 1.  Is your PREamp turned on for 10m?  Hopefully you don't accidentally have
> RX ANT activated.
> 2.  Please describe your antenna in more detail, including orientation.
> 3.  I've never needed a preamp on 10m in the 8 years I've had a K3, but my
> antenna system has a lot of gain.
>
> 73,  Bill  W4ZV

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Re: Is the K3 have low sensitivity on 10 M and 6 M

briancom
This test may be a bit out of date.

With digital modes decoding signals ~10 db below the noise these days,
one may need at least two S-units of noise.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 10/14/2016 0:04 AM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> Re #3: I never have either.  While a thorough analysis of "To Preamp or
> Not to Preamp" is complex and very situational, the antenna check is
> really a very good indicator:
>
> Remove the antenna and note the noise produced by the K3.  Connect the
> antenna.  If the noise rises, adding a preamp at the radio isn't likely
> to do much for you.  At the antenna, it can compensate for loss in the
> transmission line, but that's not likely very high on 10m or even 6m
> unless your coax is very long or full of water.
>
> My experience is:  When the noise rises by connecting the antenna and I
> still can't hear the signals, I need a better antenna. [:-)
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Sparks NV DM09dn
>
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the Cal QSO Party 7-8 Oct 2017
> - www.cqp.org
>
> On 10/13/2016 5:46 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:
>> 1.  Is your PREamp turned on for 10m?  Hopefully you don't
>> accidentally have
>> RX ANT activated.
>> 2.  Please describe your antenna in more detail, including orientation.
>> 3.  I've never needed a preamp on 10m in the 8 years I've had a K3,
>> but my
>> antenna system has a lot of gain.
>>
>> 73,  Bill  W4ZV
>
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Re: Is the K3 have low sensitivity on 10 M and 6 M

k6dgw
Interesting point ... Right after getting the new synth for my K3, I was
copying a number of WSPR stations on 630 meters.  I even got up in the
middle of the night to see if I could hear them [I couldn't] as the
computer copied them at - 10 to -15 dB SNR.  At first consideration, I
don't see what effect a preamp would have had, SNR is still the same.

Related subject:  An old CW RO's trick when copying a weak signal in
noise and QRM is to lay the headphones on the desk face up.  I learned
this years ago on the Holy Frequency.  I have no idea why it works, but
it often does.  Maybe one of the acoustic experts here will explain it.

73,

Fred K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 10/14/2016 6:53 AM, brian wrote:
> This test may be a bit out of date.
>
> With digital modes decoding signals ~10 db below the noise these days,
> one may need at least two S-units of noise.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO

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Re: Is the K3 have low sensitivity on 10 M and 6 M

n9tf
I have always done the same thing with signals at the noise floor, or below. The biggest change I've noticed by doing this is the band noise is much more attenuated through the headphones lying on the table and the signal one is trying to copy jumps out in the clear since band noise is attenuated.
 
73 Gene N9TF

----- Original Message -----

  "Fred Jensen" [hidden email]
 
 
Related subject:  An old CW RO's trick when copying a weak signal in
noise and QRM is to lay the headphones on the desk face up.  I learned
this years ago on the Holy Frequency.  I have no idea why it works, but
it often does.  Maybe one of the acoustic experts here will explain it.

73,

Fred K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 10/14/2016 6:53 AM, brian wrote:
> This test may be a bit out of date.
>
> With digital modes decoding signals ~10 db below the noise these days,
> one may need at least two S-units of noise.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO

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