K1-4 4 band version gone?

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K1-4 4 band version gone?

Bruce Beford-4
All this talk about the K1 backlight led me to look back at the K1 order
page. There is no option for a 4-band version, nor for the KFL1-4 4-band
filter module itself. Is this an oversight, or has the 4-band board been
discontinued? If so, when and why? Also if so, then the K1 description page
should be edited to remove reference to the "new" 4 band board... or at
least explain that it is no longer available.

Bruce
N1RX


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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Phil Wheeler-2
Yes, Bruce, it looks like this:


      /T//he K1...A compact, high-performance CW
      rig that _you_ can build./

//

/HF operation is more fun than ever these
days--five watts is all you need to work worldwide
DX. That's why we've packed up to four bands into
our affordable, easy-to-build K1-4 transceiver.
You can order the K1 as either a four-band radio
*(K1-4)* or a two-band radio *(K1-2)*.  The new
four-band K1-4 covers 40, 30, 20, and either 17 or
15 meters. (All band parts are supplied with the
kit and 17 or 15M are chosen as the last band at
build time.) You can also upgrade the K1-2 to a
K1-4 by purchasing the four-band KFL1-4  module
and replacing the KFL1-2 in your original K1-2.
The KFL1-2 two band module covers your choice of
two bands (80, 40, 30 20, 17 and 15 meters
available). Combining a K1-4 with an extra KFL1-2
band module on 80 + (15 or 17M) gives you all six
bands on your K1! Both module types simply plug in
to the K1's main board, internally, and you can
swap either type in at any time./


needs an edit -- unless lack of a 4-band module is
a temporary situation. Perhaps Elecraft will
clarify when their day begins soon.

Phil W7OX

On 7/17/14, 4:13 AM, Bruce Beford wrote:
> All this talk about the K1 backlight led me to look back at the K1 order
> page. There is no option for a 4-band version, nor for the KFL1-4 4-band
> filter module itself. Is this an oversight, or has the 4-band board been
> discontinued? If so, when and why? Also if so, then the K1 description page
> should be edited to remove reference to the "new" 4 band board... or at
> least explain that it is no longer available.
>
> Bruce
> N1RX

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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Gil G.
I emailed Elecraft about it and they said the 4-band module is unlikely to come back.

http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,824.0.html

Gil.
--
PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc

On Jul 17, 2014, at 11:47 AM, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> needs an edit -- unless lack of a 4-band module is a temporary situation. Perhaps Elecraft will clarify when their day begins soon.

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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Bruce Beford-4
In reply to this post by Bruce Beford-4
This is sad news indeed. I have built a few K1s, and repaired a few for
others. The 4 band board made for a very capable rig, without the swapping
that the 2 band version requires. A redesign/reintroduction would be nice,
but I imagine it's primarily a business decision, rather than strictly an
engineering one.
-Bruce/ N1RX

> I emailed Elecraft about it and they said the 4-band module is unlikely to
> come back.
> http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,824.0.html
>Gil.



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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Phil Wheeler-2
In reply to this post by Gil G.
Bummer -- and Lisa's exact words from that link
were more definite and final:

/The 4-band board was discontinued due to a part
availability issue that was crucial to the
functionality of the KF1-4. So no, it will not be
coming back sorry to say./

The 4-band K1 is a really nice, small QRP radio --
with 5 Watts. Definitely a better CW receiver than
the KX1 (4-pole filter, plenty of audio, etc.) and
a more capable transmitter. Of course, not the
freq coverage of the KX1 and not as tiny or trail
friendly, but a very nice rig.

If I had to sell my KX1 or my K1 it would be the
KX1. My K1 would make a capable 40-30-20-15 qrp CW
based station, particularly after adding one of my
audio filters.  KX3 is, of course, a far better
option and I have one; but it is larger and much
more expensive -- plus it's not a melt solder and
wind toroid kit.

73, Phil

On 7/17/14, 8:55 AM, Gil G. wrote:
> I emailed Elecraft about it and they said the 4-band module is unlikely to come back.
>
> http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,824.0.html
>
> Gil.

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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Phil Hystad-3
And, here I was planning to get a 4-band K1 this fall.  Yes, real Bummer.

So, I figure that I could do one of the following:

     (1)    Buy THREE 2-band K1 radios (saves on interchanging other bands).

     (2)    Buy the Two band option board and get along with 4 bands.

     (3)    Stick with just a 2-band K1.

I am going with the obvious, option (1).  OK, just kidding.  Option (2)  But at first I am starting just with Option (1).  I wonder if there is a science behind the logic in which two bands to choose to go together.

73, phil, K7PEH


On Jul 17, 2014, at 10:46 AM, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Bummer -- and Lisa's exact words from that link were more definite and final:
>
> /The 4-band board was discontinued due to a part availability issue that was crucial to the functionality of the KF1-4. So no, it will not be coming back sorry to say./
>
> The 4-band K1 is a really nice, small QRP radio -- with 5 Watts. Definitely a better CW receiver than the KX1 (4-pole filter, plenty of audio, etc.) and a more capable transmitter. Of course, not the freq coverage of the KX1 and not as tiny or trail friendly, but a very nice rig.
>
> If I had to sell my KX1 or my K1 it would be the KX1. My K1 would make a capable 40-30-20-15 qrp CW based station, particularly after adding one of my audio filters.  KX3 is, of course, a far better option and I have one; but it is larger and much more expensive -- plus it's not a melt solder and wind toroid kit.
>
> 73, Phil
>
> On 7/17/14, 8:55 AM, Gil G. wrote:
>> I emailed Elecraft about it and they said the 4-band module is unlikely to come back.
>>
>> http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,824.0.html
>>
>> Gil.
>
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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

EricJ-2
In reply to this post by Gil G.
Bad news...for those who don't have one.

The K1-4 was my introduction to both Elecraft and purpose-built QRP
rigs. It's easily in the top 3 favorite radios I have owned in half a
century. I think Gil called it a cute mini K2 in the link below, and
that's a pretty good description. It's big enough to operate like a
"real" radio in the shack. It's small enough to take anywhere. It tunes
smoothly and sounds exceptionally good. It has everything you need for
CW and nothing you don't.

The KX1 isn't a good substitute for the K1, in my opinion. It's a very
specialized rig with lots of compromises for those who need minimum size
and weight. After the initial fun of a new rig, my KX1 has been sitting
on a shelf with very little use. Whenever I grab it to go camping, I
pack the K1 as well "just in case". Then I end up using the K1 the
entire trip. If I was a backpacker, the roles would probably be
reversed, though.

Anyway, re: K1-4. I got mine, and I'm KEEPING it. (hi)

Eric
KE6US







On 7/17/2014 8:55 AM, Gil G. wrote:

> I emailed Elecraft about it and they said the 4-band module is unlikely to come back.
>
> http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,824.0.html
>
> Gil.
> --
> PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc
>
> On Jul 17, 2014, at 11:47 AM, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> needs an edit -- unless lack of a 4-band module is a temporary situation. Perhaps Elecraft will clarify when their day begins soon.
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Don Wilhelm-4
In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2
The part that has become unavailable is the blue trimmer capacitors that
are used for tuning the bandpass filters.  That does *not* spell demise
of the K1, but only the 4 band board.

Yes, sorry that it is gone, but the K1 with a 2 band board and an extra
2 band board will give you 4 band capability - and you can mix and match
the 4 bands in any combination of 2 bands that you want. In other words,
the choices are more flexible than with the 4 band board.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/17/2014 1:46 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote:
> Bummer -- and Lisa's exact words from that link were more definite and
> final:
>
> /The 4-band board was discontinued due to a part availability issue
> that was crucial to the functionality of the KF1-4. So no, it will not
> be coming back sorry to say./
>

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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

wayne burdick
Administrator
In reply to this post by Bruce Beford-4
Hi Bruce,

The 4-band module requires extremely low-temperature-coefficient trimmer capacitors because of its narrow-band pre-mix and RF band-pass filters. The last source for these exotic trimmers dried up recently. A redesign using higher-TC trimmers might be possible, but the filters would end up being triple-tuned, which would force the use of SMD components throughout, and tuning the filters would then be very difficult without a spectrum analyzer.

Sales volume for the K1 has decreased in recent years due to the KX1 (which is smaller and has a DDS VFO), and the KX3 (which covers all bands, all modes, with up to 12 W output and has a much more capable auto tuner, nicer user interface, etc.). So the cost of a redesign wouldn't be recovered.

That said, for the time being we're continuing to offer the two-band version and the other options (KAT1 ATU, KBT1 battery pack, etc.). The K1 is one of our "full" kits, and has a bit of a fan club of its own.

We'll update the website to reflect the change in option availability.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Jul 17, 2014, at 4:13 AM, "Bruce Beford" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> All this talk about the K1 backlight led me to look back at the K1 order
> page. There is no option for a 4-band version, nor for the KFL1-4 4-band
> filter module itself. Is this an oversight, or has the 4-band board been
> discontinued? If so, when and why? Also if so, then the K1 description page
> should be edited to remove reference to the "new" 4 band board... or at
> least explain that it is no longer available.
>
> Bruce
> N1RX



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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

John Cooper
In reply to this post by Bruce Beford-4
What is the crucial part that caused this? Inquiring minds wanna know.

WT5Y


Sent from my Cricket smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: EricJ <[hidden email]>
Date: 07/17/2014  13:32  (GMT-06:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?
 
Bad news...for those who don't have one.

The K1-4 was my introduction to both Elecraft and purpose-built QRP
rigs. It's easily in the top 3 favorite radios I have owned in half a
century. I think Gil called it a cute mini K2 in the link below, and
that's a pretty good description. It's big enough to operate like a
"real" radio in the shack. It's small enough to take anywhere. It tunes
smoothly and sounds exceptionally good. It has everything you need for
CW and nothing you don't.

The KX1 isn't a good substitute for the K1, in my opinion. It's a very
specialized rig with lots of compromises for those who need minimum size
and weight. After the initial fun of a new rig, my KX1 has been sitting
on a shelf with very little use. Whenever I grab it to go camping, I
pack the K1 as well "just in case". Then I end up using the K1 the
entire trip. If I was a backpacker, the roles would probably be
reversed, though.

Anyway, re: K1-4. I got mine, and I'm KEEPING it. (hi)

Eric
KE6US







On 7/17/2014 8:55 AM, Gil G. wrote:

> I emailed Elecraft about it and they said the 4-band module is unlikely to come back.
>
> http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,824.0.html
>
> Gil.
> --
> PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc
>
> On Jul 17, 2014, at 11:47 AM, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> needs an edit -- unless lack of a 4-band module is a temporary situation. Perhaps Elecraft will clarify when their day begins soon.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Don Wilhelm-4
In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3
The K1 can remember the frequency offset settings for 6 bands, so having
3 2-band boards is quite practical.  You get to choose which 2 bands go
together on one board for most of your operating pleasure.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/17/2014 2:14 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

> And, here I was planning to get a 4-band K1 this fall.  Yes, real Bummer.
>
> So, I figure that I could do one of the following:
>
>       (1)    Buy THREE 2-band K1 radios (saves on interchanging other bands).
>
>       (2)    Buy the Two band option board and get along with 4 bands.
>
>       (3)    Stick with just a 2-band K1.
>
> I am going with the obvious, option (1).  OK, just kidding.  Option (2)  But at first I am starting just with Option (1).  I wonder if there is a science behind the logic in which two bands to choose to go together.
>
>

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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Bruce Beford-4
In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Thanks for taking the time to reply with the details, Wayne. It's a shame. I
(and many others) feel the K1 has some advantages over the KX1, such as the
analog VFO, higher output power, and 4-pole filtering. It's internal antenna
matching unit also offers more tuning range than the KX1. I have also built
a 160m/80m 2 band board for mine.

I have built and own all the Elecraft rigs, and each has provided great
enjoyment, each has it's strong points.

Time marches own, it would be wonderful if a 4-band redesign solution could
be found, using modern components. Perhaps a pre-built, pre-tuned SMD based
board. But, I imagine the potential sales volume would not justify the
costs. Too bad.

Bruce/N1RX

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Burdick [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:43 PM
To: Bruce Beford
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Hi Bruce,

The 4-band module requires extremely low-temperature-coefficient trimmer
capacitors because of its narrow-band pre-mix and RF band-pass filters. The
last source for these exotic trimmers dried up recently. A redesign using
higher-TC trimmers might be possible, but the filters would end up being
triple-tuned, which would force the use of SMD components throughout, and
tuning the filters would then be very difficult without a spectrum analyzer.


Sales volume for the K1 has decreased in recent years due to the KX1 (which
is smaller and has a DDS VFO), and the KX3 (which covers all bands, all
modes, with up to 12 W output and has a much more capable auto tuner, nicer
user interface, etc.). So the cost of a redesign wouldn't be recovered.

That said, for the time being we're continuing to offer the two-band version
and the other options (KAT1 ATU, KBT1 battery pack, etc.). The K1 is one of
our "full" kits, and has a bit of a fan club of its own.

We'll update the website to reflect the change in option availability.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Jul 17, 2014, at 4:13 AM, "Bruce Beford" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> All this talk about the K1 backlight led me to look back at the K1 order
> page. There is no option for a 4-band version, nor for the KFL1-4 4-band
> filter module itself. Is this an oversight, or has the 4-band board been
> discontinued? If so, when and why? Also if so, then the K1 description
page
> should be edited to remove reference to the "new" 4 band board... or at
> least explain that it is no longer available.
>
> Bruce
> N1RX






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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Mike Morrow-3
In reply to this post by Bruce Beford-4
Wayne wrote:

> The 4-band module requires extremely low-temperature-coefficient
> trimmer capacitors because of its narrow-band pre-mix and RF band-pass
> filters. The last source for these exotic trimmers dried up recently.

If all the other parts of the KFL1-4 were still stocked, perhaps those
original white ceramic trimmer capacitors could be used again.  I used
my KFL1-4 for two years with those because I did not want to pull and
rebuild the KFL1-4 I built in 2001 after the blue trimmers were made
available.  Yes, I did need to re-align my KFL1-4 about every six months
when the original white capacitors were still in place.

This would be an unfortunate compromise, but I'd rather have even the
original KFL1-4 with those problematic trimmers than use two KFL1-2
filters to get four bands.  I used two KFL1-2 boards (40/20m and 30/15m)
prior to the availability of the KFL1-4.

> Sales volume for the K1 has decreased in recent years due to the KX1
> (which is smaller and has a DDS VFO)...

I greatly prefer the performance and physical form of the K1 over that
of the KX1.  I never bought the BS that some KX1 owners slung around
after KX1 introduction that the KX1 "replaced" the K1.  Did it??  Try
using that KX1 on 15 or 17 meters.  Even for backpacking, the K1 is a
far better radio to cart along if ham CW band RF performance is valued.
The K1 is also less quirky to build than a 80/40/30/20m full-house KX1.

> ...and the KX3...

I believe that there are a number of advantages of the K1 over the KX3
when the extreme sophistication of the KX3 is not required.  The K1 is
much lighter, less bulky, much lower power consumption, and is incredibly
easier to fully master than the KX3 is at even the neophyte level.

I purchased the K1 after seeing its introduction at Dayton 2000, and then
waited the six months for delivery of #175 in November 2000.  After almost
14 years it remains my favorite and most utilized HF ham rig owned in 46
years as a ham.  It is a very very good radio, and I greatly admire Wayne's
design for this classic QRP rig.  Thanks, Wayne.

> So the cost of a redesign wouldn't be recovered.

I've always thought that the K1-line would be the first to be discontinued.
I am pleasantly surprised that the *start* of that is happening *only* now.
It was a very good run for a great QRP radio...those 14 years!  If you don't
have one, get one with a KFL1-2 is still available.

73,
Mike / KK5F
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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Jessie Oberreuter-2
In reply to this post by wayne burdick

      Here's another thought that perhaps one of us could put together:
give up the internal battery space for a considerably larger filter board
that could be used to allow room for additional "2 band" style filters
that don't share components (and, thus, don't need high-tolerance parts).
No new parts would be needed; the existing 2-band parts kits, and the
controller from the 4-band board would serve.
      This would also open the door for selecting a completely arbitrary
set of four bands (eg 15/20/40/80) as the filters would, again, be
completely independent of each other.
      I'll have to give mine a close look for mechanical feasibility when I
get home.  -kb7psg



On Thu, 17 Jul 2014, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> The 4-band module requires extremely low-temperature-coefficient trimmer
> capacitors because of its narrow-band pre-mix and RF band-pass filters.
> The last source for these exotic trimmers dried up recently. A redesign
> using higher-TC trimmers might be possible, but the filters would end up
> being triple-tuned, which would force the use of SMD components
> throughout, and tuning the filters would then be very difficult without
> a spectrum analyzer.
>
> Sales volume for the K1 has decreased in recent years due to the KX1
> (which is smaller and has a DDS VFO), and the KX3 (which covers all
> bands, all modes, with up to 12 W output and has a much more capable
> auto tuner, nicer user interface, etc.). So the cost of a redesign
> wouldn't be recovered.
>
> That said, for the time being we're continuing to offer the two-band
> version and the other options (KAT1 ATU, KBT1 battery pack, etc.). The
> K1 is one of our "full" kits, and has a bit of a fan club of its own.
>
> We'll update the website to reflect the change in option availability.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Mike Morrow-3
In reply to this post by Bruce Beford-4
Don wrote:

>The K1 can remember the frequency offset settings for 6 bands...

The K1 remembers the frequency display calibration settings (OFS)
for all *nine* HF bands between 160m and 10m (60m is excluded),
and automatically uses the one previously stored for a particular
band when that band gets assigned to a filter board's b1 or b2.  

> ...so having 3 2-band boards is quite practical.  You get to
> choose which 2 bands go together on one board for most of your
> operating pleasure.

It is worth noting that a small problem will arise if multiple
KFL1-2 boards are built that duplicate one of the bands...such
as a board for 40/20 and a board for 40/15, both for the same K1.
The K1 MCU can remember only *one* frequency display calibration
setting per band.  In the example I use above, one of those two
boards will have some calibration error on 40m unless the 40m
heterodyne crystal frequencies of both filter boards are very
nearly the same frequency.  They'll likely be close enough.

Mike / KK5F
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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Mike Morrow-3
In reply to this post by Bruce Beford-4
Jessie wrote:

> I'll have to give mine a close look for mechanical feasibility when I
> get home.

It is not feasible.

Mike / KK5F
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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

wayne burdick
Administrator
In reply to this post by Mike Morrow-3
Hi Mike,

I appreciate your thoughts on the K1. You're right -- it has a much simpler user interface than the KX3, and lower receive-mode current drain.

But, regarding size and weight:  The KX3 weighs only slightly more than the K1 (1.5 vs. 1.4 lbs), and the KX3 is roughly 30% smaller than the K1 (1.7 x 3.4 x 7.4" vs. 2.2 x 5.2 x 5.6"). New technology and all that....

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Jul 17, 2014, at 12:54 PM, Mike Morrow <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ...The K1 is much lighter, less bulky, much lower power consumption, and is incredibly
> easier to fully master than the KX3 is at even the neophyte level.




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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Gil G.
In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3
On Thu, 2014-07-17 at 11:14 -0700, Phil Hystad wrote:
> And, here I was planning to get a 4-band K1 this fall.  Yes, real Bummer.

I was about to buy one, sold my first, what a mistake!
I vote for a redesign as well!

Gil.

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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Michael Byrd
In reply to this post by Bruce Beford-4
I am sad about the recent turn of events but not surprised. I bought the K1-2 band right after it was available with an extra 2 band board. When the 4 band board was introduced, I jumped on that purchase. I will probably buy a few of the 2 band boards before they are gone. I don't want any portable style radio as that's not the way I operate.

I have used the K1-4 for several years and really love everything about it. I have earned DXCC on 40 meters with this radio so it does work well. I use an outboard SCAP filter that really makes a huge difference on receive.

I recently retired and did some updating/repair on my K1. I plan to operate this radio a lot more in the future.

Mike, AC4UR
http://sunbyrdpress.blogspot.com/p/amateur-radio.html

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Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

David Gilbert
In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

The only science I can think of has to do with propagation.  It seems to
me that 20m/40m would give the best overall opportunity for use hour by
hour over the course of a full sunspot cycle. Everything else pretty
much just boils down to personal preference or available space for antennas.

73,
Dave   AB7E




On 7/17/2014 11:14 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:
> I wonder if there is a science behind the logic in which two bands to choose to go together.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
>

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