K3 Audio: from OK to superior

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K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Ignacy
I use Yamaha CM500 with K3. It is wearing out so I started looking at alternatives. Yesterday I connected Bose OE ($100).  The sound quality changed from OK or a bit harsh to very smooth, like from Chevy to Cadillac.   A pleasure to listen to.

I thought that headphones are headphones and their main differences are frequencies characteristics, sensitivity + fit. However, with OE the sound quality is greatly improved. Any idea why?

Seems choosing $40 headsets with $3k radio is not be the best idea.

If only they had a headset....

Ignacy, NO9E
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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Phil Wheeler-2
Re "If only they had a headset": Doesn't Elecraft
still sell a Heil headset mic?

Phil W7OX

On 7/17/14, 8:19 AM, Ignacy wrote:

> I use Yamaha CM500 with K3. It is wearing out so I started looking at
> alternatives. Yesterday I connected Bose OE ($100).  The sound quality
> changed from OK or a bit harsh to very smooth, like from Chevy to Cadillac.
> A pleasure to listen to.
>
> I thought that headphones are headphones and their main differences are
> frequencies characteristics, sensitivity + fit. However, with OE the sound
> quality is greatly improved. Any idea why?
>
> Seems choosing $40 headsets with $3k radio is not be the best idea.
>
> If only they had a headset....
>
> Ignacy, NO9E

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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Bill-3
In reply to this post by Ignacy
Where for $80?

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Eric Ross
In reply to this post by Ignacy
If you are going to spend that much, you might as well get the Proset
K2.  Great listening, comfortable, and constantly great audio reports
from others.

http://www.elecraft.com/MD2/proset.htm

Eric
wb7sde

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014, at 09:09 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> If you are OK with open back headphones, the Grado SR-60 ($80) has been
> the best deal in audio for a long time.  You can turn headphones into a
> headset with the ModMic add-on boom mic ($50).
>
> http://www.modmic.com/
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/
>
> On Jul 17, 2014, at 8:19 AM, Ignacy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I use Yamaha CM500 with K3. It is wearing out so I started looking at
> > alternatives. Yesterday I connected Bose OE ($100).  The sound quality
> > changed from OK or a bit harsh to very smooth, like from Chevy to Cadillac.  
> > A pleasure to listen to.
> >
> > I thought that headphones are headphones and their main differences are
> > frequencies characteristics, sensitivity + fit. However, with OE the sound
> > quality is greatly improved. Any idea why?
> >
> > Seems choosing $40 headsets with $3k radio is not be the best idea.
> >
> > If only they had a headset....
> >
> > Ignacy, NO9E
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Audio-from-OK-to-superior-tp7591291.html
> > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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--
  Eric Ross
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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Ignacy
On 7/17/2014 8:19 AM, Ignacy wrote:
> I thought that headphones are headphones and their main differences are
> frequencies characteristics, sensitivity + fit. However, with OE the sound
> quality is greatly improved. Any idea why?

Several possibilities.

How old are you? How much hearing sensitivity have you lost due to
exposure to loud radios, loud music, noise at work, use of firearms? The
audio output stages in Elecraft radios are not designed to produce the
very high levels needed to overcome a lot of hearing loss, and may run
into distortion when asked to do so. Wayne designs them this way to
minimize current drain -- all of his radios are designed to be good
back-packing radios too.

I worked in pro audio for a lot of years, so I have hearing loss both
from that and from my years in ham radio. The output stages in my
Elecraft radios are good enough for my hearing loss, and my expectations
of what a ham rig should do, but they may not be good enough for everyone.

All headphones are not created equal, even good ones. Their load
impedance and voltage sensitivity can vary over a wide range. The Bose
headphones may have greater voltage sensitivity, so the Elecraft output
stage doesn't have to work as hard.

One thing that all of us can easily do is use RXEQ to get rid of low end
noise that is of no use for communications, but burns some audio
headroom. I have RXEQ in my KX3 set to max cut on the three lowest
bands. Cutting the two or three lowest bands on a K3 would probably help
headroom by about 2 dB.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Ignacy
Hearing loss is an issue but as you write, RX EQ in K3 comes in handy. Many times especially that many signals are very bassy.

The Heil EO advantage seemed smoothness, not higher treble. It was like sitting in a room full of signals, not wearing headphones. A pleasure as opposed to OK.

Is Heil Proset an advantage over CM500 and close to Bose? In old times, a microphone made a big difference. With TX EQ, less so.

Ignacy, NO9E  

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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

David Bunte
Ignacy -

I know some folks who really LOVE their Heil ProSet... but I sold mine
after a few months and got the CM500.  For me the Heil was not
comfortable.  It sounded fine, but I think the CM500 sounds just as good,
and is FAR more comfortable on my big ears.

Dave - K9FN


On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Ignacy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hearing loss is an issue but as you write, RX EQ in K3 comes in handy. Many
> times especially that many signals are very bassy.
>
> The Heil EO advantage seemed smoothness, not higher treble. It was like
> sitting in a room full of signals, not wearing headphones. A pleasure as
> opposed to OK.
>
> Is Heil Proset an advantage over CM500 and close to Bose? In old times, a
> microphone made a big difference. With TX EQ, less so.
>
> Ignacy, NO9E
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Audio-from-OK-to-superior-tp7591291p7591343.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
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K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Johnny Siu
Both K3 and KX3 come with the TX and RX EQ, I find these radios are very accommodating for many low cost headsets.  I experimented a number of computer boom headsets and currently am using a Panasonic light weight boom headset costing me only US$20.  In fact, by all means, when you come across some low cost computer headsets, give them a try and you will be amazed to find they are really not bad at all.

I gave up Heil for long time because they are too pricy for me.  I used CM500 which was good but too heavy to be worn for long time.  Therefore, I now settle on some low cost computer headsets.

Do experiment with the settings in TX and RX EQ and you can find a sweet spot.  I can still hear above 12KHz.  My good hearing sometimes does trouble me because I am very sensitive to the artifacts from the DSP audio.

73

Johnny VR2XMC
 

________________________________
 寄件人︰ David Bunte <[hidden email]>
收件人︰ Ignacy <[hidden email]>
副本(CC)︰ [hidden email]
傳送日期︰ 2014年07月18日 (週五) 9:56 PM
主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio: from OK to superior
 

Ignacy -

I know some folks who really LOVE their Heil ProSet... but I sold mine
after a few months and got the CM500.  For me the Heil was not
comfortable.  It sounded fine, but I think the CM500 sounds just as good,
and is FAR more comfortable on my big ears.

Dave - K9FN


On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Ignacy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hearing loss is an issue but as you write, RX EQ in K3 comes in handy. Many
> times especially that many signals are very bassy.
>
> The Heil EO advantage seemed smoothness, not higher treble. It was like
> sitting in a room full of signals, not wearing headphones. A pleasure as
> opposed to OK.
>
> Is Heil Proset an advantage over CM500 and close to Bose? In old times, a
> microphone made a big difference. With TX EQ, less so.
>
> Ignacy, NO9E
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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Joe Subich, W4TV-4
In reply to this post by David Bunte

 > It sounded fine, but I think the CM500 sounds just as good,
 > and is FAR more comfortable on my big ears.

Agreed ... After Bob Heil refused to provide repair parts (mic shell
and element) or repair my original Proset for less than the cost of
a *NEW* replacement from one of the on-line retailers, I replaced it
with *two* CM-500s for less than the cost of a replacement Proset (one
CM-500 is still on the shelf as a spare).

The CM-500 is far more comfortable, its receive audio quality is as
good or better than the Proset, and provides transmit audio every bit
as good as the Proset HC5 or HC6.

I use receive EQ *in addition to* careful, mode appropriate RX DSP
filtering, to roll off both low frequency rumble and high frequency
hiss but I also did that the Proset.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2014-07-18 9:56 AM, David Bunte wrote:

> Ignacy -
>
> I know some folks who really LOVE their Heil ProSet... but I sold mine
> after a few months and got the CM500.  For me the Heil was not
> comfortable.  It sounded fine, but I think the CM500 sounds just as good,
> and is FAR more comfortable on my big ears.
>
> Dave - K9FN
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Ignacy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hearing loss is an issue but as you write, RX EQ in K3 comes in handy. Many
>> times especially that many signals are very bassy.
>>
>> The Heil EO advantage seemed smoothness, not higher treble. It was like
>> sitting in a room full of signals, not wearing headphones. A pleasure as
>> opposed to OK.
>>
>> Is Heil Proset an advantage over CM500 and close to Bose? In old times, a
>> microphone made a big difference. With TX EQ, less so.
>>
>> Ignacy, NO9E
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Audio-from-OK-to-superior-tp7591291p7591343.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

hf4me
In reply to this post by David Bunte
I normally keep quiet but I have to say my CM500 must be different than
others because if feels cheap, flops, doesn't fit, and it is only a backup
to my original Heil headset with the "4" element.  My Heil feels good, fits,
is comfortable, sounds great, and is what I use all the time on my K3 and
receive many unsolicited "great audio, what are you using" reports.  I was
going to use the CM500 on the back mic connector so I could monitor and
assist new hams get going on the air when visiting my station.  

I do not like the CM500 but it does serve as an alternate when I have to use
it.

73, Jim KG0KP


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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Tony Estep
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> ...I do not like the CM500....

=========
me neither.

Tony KT0NY
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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Chester Alderman
I, for one, disagree with this! My CM500 replaced all of my Heil, Sony, and
RadioSport headsets. They are light and comfortable and sound excellent for
CW use. I can wear them for many hours without the 'burned ears' syndrome
that I always get from Heil's. They are inexpensive, but if something breaks
or goes wrong, buying another set is not bank breaking like having to deal
with the other vendors, especially Heil. I'll just keep mine, thank you!

73,
Tom - W4BQF


-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tony
Estep
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 3:02 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio: from OK to superior

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> ...I do not like the CM500....

=========
me neither.

Tony KT0NY
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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Clive Lorton
In reply to this post by Ignacy
n 18/07/2014 20:21, Chester Alderman wrote:
> I, for one, disagree with this! My CM500 replaced all of my Heil,
> Sony, and
> RadioSport headsets.
The problem is its a personal choice. So I find this thread non productive.
Hi-Fi, Pro Audio (my home) & Ham radio. Everyone has their own view...
Its a bit like food.  How do you like your steak?  If its right for you,
then great.
Yes I have one of the headsets mentioned and I like them.  The XYL
doesn't. But there again she thinks ham radio is boring.......

Can we give up on Heil versus Panasonic versus Yamaha please.

Clive G8POC
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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Pete Smith N4ZR
In reply to this post by Chester Alderman
I'm with Tom.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 7/18/2014 3:21 PM, Chester Alderman wrote:

> I, for one, disagree with this! My CM500 replaced all of my Heil, Sony, and
> RadioSport headsets. They are light and comfortable and sound excellent for
> CW use. I can wear them for many hours without the 'burned ears' syndrome
> that I always get from Heil's. They are inexpensive, but if something breaks
> or goes wrong, buying another set is not bank breaking like having to deal
> with the other vendors, especially Heil. I'll just keep mine, thank you!
>
> 73,
> Tom - W4BQF
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tony
> Estep
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 3:02 PM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio: from OK to superior
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Jim Miller <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> ...I do not like the CM500....
> =========
> me neither.
>
> Tony KT0NY
> ______________________________________________________________
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> delivered to [hidden email]
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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Wes (N7WS)
In reply to this post by Chester Alderman
When I got my K3 in Oct 2008, my station headset was configured for my TS-870,
so falling for the hype, I traipsed down to the local ham emporium (since
closed) and picked up a Heil.

After trying it ever so briefly I couldn't return it fast enough. I discovered
the CM500 and found it to be outstanding.  As far as I know, I was the first to
bring the CM500 to the attention of the Elecraft reflector.  Mine has been used
so much that the cushions are starting to shed a little, so I was thinking of
buy another one.  Unfortunately, the price in "print 'em by the trillions" O
dollars has almost doubled since 2008, so I might hold off for a couple of years.

Wes  N7WS

  On 7/18/2014 12:21 PM, Chester Alderman wrote:

> I, for one, disagree with this! My CM500 replaced all of my Heil, Sony, and
> RadioSport headsets. They are light and comfortable and sound excellent for
> CW use. I can wear them for many hours without the 'burned ears' syndrome
> that I always get from Heil's. They are inexpensive, but if something breaks
> or goes wrong, buying another set is not bank breaking like having to deal
> with the other vendors, especially Heil. I'll just keep mine, thank you!
>
> 73,
> Tom - W4BQF
>
>

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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Ignacy
This story is about Bose OE, not Heil Proset. Does Heil uses Bose?
Ignacy, NO9E


On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Wes (N7WS) [via Elecraft] <[hidden email]> wrote:
When I got my K3 in Oct 2008, my station headset was configured for my TS-870,
so falling for the hype, I traipsed down to the local ham emporium (since
closed) and picked up a Heil.

After trying it ever so briefly I couldn't return it fast enough. I discovered
the CM500 and found it to be outstanding.  As far as I know, I was the first to
bring the CM500 to the attention of the Elecraft reflector.  Mine has been used
so much that the cushions are starting to shed a little, so I was thinking of
buy another one.  Unfortunately, the price in "print 'em by the trillions" O
dollars has almost doubled since 2008, so I might hold off for a couple of years.

Wes  N7WS

  On 7/18/2014 12:21 PM, Chester Alderman wrote:

> I, for one, disagree with this! My CM500 replaced all of my Heil, Sony, and
> RadioSport headsets. They are light and comfortable and sound excellent for
> CW use. I can wear them for many hours without the 'burned ears' syndrome
> that I always get from Heil's. They are inexpensive, but if something breaks
> or goes wrong, buying another set is not bank breaking like having to deal
> with the other vendors, especially Heil. I'll just keep mine, thank you!
>
> 73,
> Tom - W4BQF
>
>
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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Wes (N7WS)
Clearly, you've missed the "topic drift."  I don't see "Bose" mentioned at all
in the post I replied to.

On 7/18/2014 3:34 PM, Ignacy wrote:

> This story is about Bose OE, not Heil Proset. Does Heil uses Bose?
> Ignacy, NO9E
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Wes (N7WS) [via Elecraft] <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> When I got my K3 in Oct 2008, my station headset was configured for my
>> TS-870,
>> so falling for the hype, I traipsed down to the local ham emporium (since
>> closed) and picked up a Heil.
>>
>> After trying it ever so briefly I couldn't return it fast enough. I
>> discovered
>> the CM500 and found it to be outstanding.  As far as I know, I was the
>> first to
>> bring the CM500 to the attention of the Elecraft reflector.  Mine has been
>> used
>> so much that the cushions are starting to shed a little, so I was thinking
>> of
>> buy another one.  Unfortunately, the price in "print 'em by the trillions"
>> O
>> dollars has almost doubled since 2008, so I might hold off for a couple of
>> years.
>>
>> Wes  N7WS
>>
>>    On 7/18/2014 12:21 PM, Chester Alderman wrote:
>>
>>> I, for one, disagree with this! My CM500 replaced all of my Heil, Sony,
>> and
>>> RadioSport headsets. They are light and comfortable and sound excellent
>> for
>>> CW use. I can wear them for many hours without the 'burned ears'
>> syndrome
>>> that I always get from Heil's. They are inexpensive, but if something
>> breaks
>>> or goes wrong, buying another set is not bank breaking like having to
>> deal
>>> with the other vendors, especially Heil. I'll just keep mine, thank you!
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Tom - W4BQF
>>>
>>>

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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Joe Subich, W4TV-4
In reply to this post by Ignacy

Any on ear headphone including the Bose OE is not suitable for long
term wear - particularly when wearing eyeglasses as the pressure on
the ears becomes doubly uncomfortable.

The Bose OE is another "twice the price of the CM-500" and without
a boom mic.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2014-07-18 6:34 PM, Ignacy wrote:

> This story is about Bose OE, not Heil Proset. Does Heil uses Bose?
> Ignacy, NO9E
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Wes (N7WS) [via Elecraft] <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> When I got my K3 in Oct 2008, my station headset was configured for my
>> TS-870,
>> so falling for the hype, I traipsed down to the local ham emporium (since
>> closed) and picked up a Heil.
>>
>> After trying it ever so briefly I couldn't return it fast enough. I
>> discovered
>> the CM500 and found it to be outstanding.  As far as I know, I was the
>> first to
>> bring the CM500 to the attention of the Elecraft reflector.  Mine has been
>> used
>> so much that the cushions are starting to shed a little, so I was thinking
>> of
>> buy another one.  Unfortunately, the price in "print 'em by the trillions"
>> O
>> dollars has almost doubled since 2008, so I might hold off for a couple of
>> years.
>>
>> Wes  N7WS
>>
>>    On 7/18/2014 12:21 PM, Chester Alderman wrote:
>>
>>> I, for one, disagree with this! My CM500 replaced all of my Heil, Sony,
>> and
>>> RadioSport headsets. They are light and comfortable and sound excellent
>> for
>>> CW use. I can wear them for many hours without the 'burned ears'
>> syndrome
>>> that I always get from Heil's. They are inexpensive, but if something
>> breaks
>>> or goes wrong, buying another set is not bank breaking like having to
>> deal
>>> with the other vendors, especially Heil. I'll just keep mine, thank you!
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Tom - W4BQF
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

Bill-3
In reply to this post by Wes (N7WS)
I very rarely use a headset - no reason for it. I have a set of
powered/amplified Behringer station speakers that are far more
comfortable to use than headsets. Perhaps some ops have very noisy
locations for their shacks - dogs, kids, mother-in-law??? RX conditions
have to be really bad before I will resort to a headset. In my
experience, if I cannot hear it with the speakers, I am unlikely to
improve the situation with the headset. Before you drill me into the
ground for the way I do things, remember - it is the way I do things. I
am not saying anyone else should follow suit.

Bill W2BLC

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Re: K3 Audio: from OK to superior

JR-2
Even if you do not like headphones... you MIGHT like a head-worn
microphone which keeps the mic element in exactly the same position,
regardless of whether you sit back in your chair, look sideways, stand
up, or move about your desk area in the shack.  A lot of what is thought
selective or atmospheric fading is, in reality, unfortunate microphone
technique, where operators look away from, or sit back from, the
microphone while speaking.  A head worn mic does not have to have
speakers attached to be very useful in managing consistent microphone
input.

Just a suggestion.
----------------------------K8JHR ---------------

On 7/18/2014 7:54 PM, Bill W2BLC wrote:
> I very rarely use a headset - no reason for it.
>
> _____________________________________________
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