K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

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K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Phil Hystad-3
What is the cheapest easiest although effective RX antenna for listening to whatever below 500 KHz with a K3 and the new K3SYNA board?

Thanks,

73, phil, K7PEH

P.S.  This might have been discussed here before but I must have missed it if it was.
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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Don Wilhelm-4
Phil,

Cheapest and easiest and effective do not always go together - pick one
or two of those properties.  Easiest would be a good active antenna,
like the one available from Clifton Labs.
Cheapest would be a multi-turn loop on a frame - search the web for
homebrew designs. - it needs to be rotated, so that may make it a bit
more complex, but it can have a narrow field of view which is good for
eliminating noise.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/18/2015 2:52 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
> What is the cheapest easiest although effective RX antenna for listening to whatever below 500 KHz with a K3 and the new K3SYNA board?
>
>

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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Joe Subich, W4TV-4


Actually, if you want cheap and effective look at the PA0RDT mini-whip
active antenna:
    http://dl1dbc.net/SAQ/Mwhip/Article_pa0rdt-Mini-Whip_English.pdf

The active antenna is relatively small and easy to build with no
particularly expensive or difficult to find parts.  Some builders
have even used MPF-102 and 2N3866 or 2N3904 transistors instead of
the U310 and 2N5109.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2015-07-18 3:08 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Phil,
>
> Cheapest and easiest and effective do not always go together - pick one
> or two of those properties.  Easiest would be a good active antenna,
> like the one available from Clifton Labs.
> Cheapest would be a multi-turn loop on a frame - search the web for
> homebrew designs. - it needs to be rotated, so that may make it a bit
> more complex, but it can have a narrow field of view which is good for
> eliminating noise.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/18/2015 2:52 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> What is the cheapest easiest although effective RX antenna for
>> listening to whatever below 500 KHz with a K3 and the new K3SYNA board?
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

pa0pje
In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3
Hi Phil,

Ever heard of the "pa0rdt mini-whip"?
Want to know how it performs?

Listen to the WEB-sdr at the Twente University made by PA3FWM.
It uses such a mini-whip created by PA0RDT.

I have one in my backyard, just two metres above the earth on an
aluminium pole in a plastic box that formerly contained a HP printer
power-supply.

I regularly listen to the transmissions of the old Alexanderson
alternator in Grimeton Sweden (callsign SAQ) that transmits on 17.2 kHz
from time to time but also on all amateur bands up to 28 MHz although
the upper limit is stated as 20 MHz.
Incredible to be able to receive the alternator on a piece of PCB-copper
clad of just a few square centimetres... Ok, SAQ's output is in the
order of 200 kW.
http://alexander.n.se/

The WEB-sdr can be found here:
http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/

Mind you it can be very busy !
On Android you should use Mozilla Firefox to listen to it.

Info about the pa0rdt-Mini-Whip can be found here:

http://pi4utr.nl/wp-content/uploads/download/pa0rdt_whip.pdf
The document starts in English but continues in Dutch and Italian.

73,
Peter - P0PJE

Op 2015-07-18 20:52 schreef Phil Hystad:

> What is the cheapest easiest although effective RX antenna for listening to whatever below 500 KHz with a K3 and the new K3SYNA board?
>
> Thanks,
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
> P.S.  This might have been discussed here before but I must have missed it if it was.
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Elecraft mailing list
In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
Joe / Don, my ignorance will jump to the forefront here.How would a Beverage perform in this situation?
((((73)))) Milverton / W9MMS.


      From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 3:11 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna
   


Actually, if you want cheap and effective look at the PA0RDT mini-whip
active antenna:
    http://dl1dbc.net/SAQ/Mwhip/Article_pa0rdt-Mini-Whip_English.pdf

The active antenna is relatively small and easy to build with no
particularly expensive or difficult to find parts.  Some builders
have even used MPF-102 and 2N3866 or 2N3904 transistors instead of
the U310 and 2N5109.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2015-07-18 3:08 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Phil,
>
> Cheapest and easiest and effective do not always go together - pick one
> or two of those properties.  Easiest would be a good active antenna,
> like the one available from Clifton Labs.
> Cheapest would be a multi-turn loop on a frame - search the web for
> homebrew designs. - it needs to be rotated, so that may make it a bit
> more complex, but it can have a narrow field of view which is good for
> eliminating noise.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/18/2015 2:52 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> What is the cheapest easiest although effective RX antenna for
>> listening to whatever below 500 KHz with a K3 and the new K3SYNA board?
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]


>
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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Phil Hystad-3
Thanks for all the replies guys…

I think I will give the mini-whip mentioned in the message below a try.  Something
to do when the temps are too high for this Seattle area rain lover.

I am printing out the paper linked by the URL at this moment.

73, phil, K7PEH



> On Jul 18, 2015, at 1:32 PM, Milverton M. Swire via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Joe / Don, my ignorance will jump to the forefront here.How would a Beverage perform in this situation?
> ((((73)))) Milverton / W9MMS.
>
>
>      From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 3:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna
>
>
>
> Actually, if you want cheap and effective look at the PA0RDT mini-whip
> active antenna:
>     http://dl1dbc.net/SAQ/Mwhip/Article_pa0rdt-Mini-Whip_English.pdf
>
> The active antenna is relatively small and easy to build with no
> particularly expensive or difficult to find parts.  Some builders
> have even used MPF-102 and 2N3866 or 2N3904 transistors instead of
> the U310 and 2N5109.
>
> 73,
>
>     ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2015-07-18 3:08 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Phil,
>>
>> Cheapest and easiest and effective do not always go together - pick one
>> or two of those properties.  Easiest would be a good active antenna,
>> like the one available from Clifton Labs.
>> Cheapest would be a multi-turn loop on a frame - search the web for
>> homebrew designs. - it needs to be rotated, so that may make it a bit
>> more complex, but it can have a narrow field of view which is good for
>> eliminating noise.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 7/18/2015 2:52 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>> What is the cheapest easiest although effective RX antenna for
>>> listening to whatever below 500 KHz with a K3 and the new K3SYNA board?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
Thanks for this link, Joe.  The text contains some EXCELLENT analysis of
how electrically short antennas work, AND how noise propagates. This is
MUST READING!

73, Jim K9YC

On Sat,7/18/2015 1:11 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
>
> Actually, if you want cheap and effective look at the PA0RDT mini-whip
> active antenna:
> http://dl1dbc.net/SAQ/Mwhip/Article_pa0rdt-Mini-Whip_English.pdf
>
> The active antenna is relatively small and easy to build with no
> particularly expensive or difficult to find parts.  Some builders
> have even used MPF-102 and 2N3866 or 2N3904 transistors instead of
> the U310 and 2N5109.
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2015-07-18 3:08 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Phil,
>>
>> Cheapest and easiest and effective do not always go together - pick one
>> or two of those properties.  Easiest would be a good active antenna,
>> like the one available from Clifton Labs.
>> Cheapest would be a multi-turn loop on a frame - search the web for
>> homebrew designs. - it needs to be rotated, so that may make it a bit
>> more complex, but it can have a narrow field of view which is good for
>> eliminating noise.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 7/18/2015 2:52 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>> What is the cheapest easiest although effective RX antenna for
>>> listening to whatever below 500 KHz with a K3 and the new K3SYNA board?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Don Wilhelm-4
Not only did I find it excellent and informative, it is written like any
good technical paper should be - real measurements with both interim
results and final conclusions.  Unlike many other antenna related
articles which simply conclude with "look at how many stations I copied"
without regard for additional analysis.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/18/2015 5:07 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> Thanks for this link, Joe.  The text contains some EXCELLENT analysis
> of how electrically short antennas work, AND how noise propagates.
> This is MUST READING!
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On Sat,7/18/2015 1:11 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>
>>
>> Actually, if you want cheap and effective look at the PA0RDT mini-whip
>> active antenna:
>> http://dl1dbc.net/SAQ/Mwhip/Article_pa0rdt-Mini-Whip_English.pdf
>>

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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

pa0pje
Don,
Then maybe this article by Pieter-Tjerk de Boer, PA3FWM on this subject
might interest you.
73,
Peter

http://wwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/ham/tn/tn07.html

Who he is can be read here:
http://wwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/

Op 2015-07-18 23:24 schreef Don Wilhelm:
> Not only did I find it excellent and informative, it is written like any
> good technical paper should be - real measurements with both interim
> results and final conclusions.  Unlike many other antenna related
> articles which simply conclude with "look at how many stations I copied"
> without regard for additional analysis.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Don Wilhelm-4
In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list
Milverton,

Not practical for LF reception.

While the beverage is an excellent and directional receive antenna, it
must be at least 1 wavelength long to be effective, longer is better.
One needs at least 2 oriented at right angles to cover all directions.
At 160 meters, 1 wavelength is about 530 feet - practical on some lots.  
To have a beverage on 100kHz would require a length of 9540 feet -
almost 2 miles.  Some ranchers in the US Southwest may have that kind of
space available, but not on even a large lot owned by a typical ham.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/18/2015 4:32 PM, Milverton M. Swire via Elecraft wrote:
> Joe / Don, my ignorance will jump to the forefront here.How would a Beverage perform in this situation?
> ((((73)))) Milverton / W9MMS.
>
>

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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Jim Brown-10
I don't completely agree with that. I have a pair of 2-wire Beverages
that are approximately one wavelength on 160M. I use them on the AM
broadcast band and find them quite effective as RX antennas. They are
not as directional on the low end of the band, but they still have SOME
directivity, and with the DX Eng preamp, they are quite sensitive.

After installing my new synth boards in the radio with the KBPF and
doing the mods, I tried listening down to 100 kHz. Around mid-day, I had
good copy of a CW beacon about 125 miles away. These antennas are too
short to be called Beverages at those low frequencies, but they do work
well as RX antennas.

73, Jim K9YC

On Sat,7/18/2015 2:55 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Not practical for LF reception.
>
> While the beverage is an excellent and directional receive antenna, it
> must be at least 1 wavelength long to be effective, longer is better.


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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Jim Brown-10
On Sat,7/18/2015 5:20 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> After installing my new synth boards in the radio with the KBPF and
> doing the mods, I tried listening down to 100 kHz. Around mid-day, I
> had good copy of a CW beacon about 125 miles away.

I forgot to note the frequency -- it was around 315 kHz.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Elecraft mailing list
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Jim / Don, thanks you both for your input. Albeit brief, I now have food for thought and some bedtime reading to do on Beverage antennas .
((((73)))) Milverton / W9MMS.

      From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 7:20 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna
   
I don't completely agree with that. I have a pair of 2-wire Beverages
that are approximately one wavelength on 160M. I use them on the AM
broadcast band and find them quite effective as RX antennas. They are
not as directional on the low end of the band, but they still have SOME
directivity, and with the DX Eng preamp, they are quite sensitive.

After installing my new synth boards in the radio with the KBPF and
doing the mods, I tried listening down to 100 kHz. Around mid-day, I had
good copy of a CW beacon about 125 miles away. These antennas are too
short to be called Beverages at those low frequencies, but they do work
well as RX antennas.

73, Jim K9YC



On Sat,7/18/2015 2:55 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Not practical for LF reception.
>
> While the beverage is an excellent and directional receive antenna, it
> must be at least 1 wavelength long to be effective, longer is better.


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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Jim AB3CV
If you just want to hear something without regard to directionality then a
longish wire on the ground even if the far end is unterminated will work to
receive signals. You may need a preamp or just turn on the preamp in the
K3. Use the RX antenna input. Simple is good, sometimes good enough.

jim ab3cv

On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Milverton M. Swire via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jim / Don, thanks you both for your input. Albeit brief, I now have food
> for thought and some bedtime reading to do on Beverage antennas .
> ((((73)))) Milverton / W9MMS.
>
>       From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
>  To: [hidden email]
>  Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 7:20 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna
>
> I don't completely agree with that. I have a pair of 2-wire Beverages
> that are approximately one wavelength on 160M. I use them on the AM
> broadcast band and find them quite effective as RX antennas. They are
> not as directional on the low end of the band, but they still have SOME
> directivity, and with the DX Eng preamp, they are quite sensitive.
>
> After installing my new synth boards in the radio with the KBPF and
> doing the mods, I tried listening down to 100 kHz. Around mid-day, I had
> good copy of a CW beacon about 125 miles away. These antennas are too
> short to be called Beverages at those low frequencies, but they do work
> well as RX antennas.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
>
> On Sat,7/18/2015 2:55 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> > Not practical for LF reception.
> >
> > While the beverage is an excellent and directional receive antenna, it
> > must be at least 1 wavelength long to be effective, longer is better.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

k6dgw
In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3
"Good," "Fast," "Cheap," pick two.  At least that's what I told the
General officer who wanted everything.  We didn't get the job, thank God.

An active E-field probe is probably the optimum, unless you have a lot
of room and time.  Small mag loops will work too, but often require a preamp

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 7/18/2015 11:52 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:
> What is the cheapest easiest although effective RX antenna for
> listening to whatever below 500 KHz with a K3 and the new K3SYNA
> board?
>
> Thanks,
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Merv Schweigert
Dont overlook perhaps an antenna you already have up,  I use an 80 meter
dipole thats
fed with open line,  I short the open line at the shack and feed that
into the receiver,
I have copied the east coast many times from Hawaii,  and of course all
the other guys
between,   up to Alaska,  thats on 475KHZ.  Both CW and WSPR.  No preamp
used.

So if your wanting to just listen and get an idea of whats there, maybe
check your present
set up,   coax fed dipole would work the same if you short the coax at
the shack end.

73 Merv K9FD/KH6

> "Good," "Fast," "Cheap," pick two.  At least that's what I told the
> General officer who wanted everything.  We didn't get the job, thank God.
>
> An active E-field probe is probably the optimum, unless you have a lot
> of room and time.  Small mag loops will work too, but often require a
> preamp
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
> - www.cqp.org
>
> On 7/18/2015 11:52 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> What is the cheapest easiest although effective RX antenna for
>> listening to whatever below 500 KHz with a K3 and the new K3SYNA
>> board?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Jim Brown-10
On Sun,7/19/2015 10:20 AM, Merv Schweigert wrote:
> Dont overlook perhaps an antenna you already have up,

Great advice.

> I use an 80 meter dipole thats
> fed with open line,  I short the open line at the shack and feed that
> into the receiver,
> I have copied the east coast many times from Hawaii,  and of course
> all the other guys
> between,   up to Alaska,  thats on 475KHZ.  Both CW and WSPR.  No
> preamp used.

Something like this was my 160M antenna in Chicago.

>
> So if your wanting to just listen and get an idea of whats there,
> maybe check your present
> set up,   coax fed dipole would work the same if you short the coax at
> the shack end.

Yes, except that if there's a choke at the feedpoint, you'll be using
only the feedline as the antenna.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by pa0pje
Peter,

check my MW stick short tests here:

http://160mband.blogspot.com/2013/11/mw-stick-vs-half-sloper-antenna.html

I am using it for several years as "no one have enough RX antennas on LB" option and it is an interresting option. (do not compare it with Bevs or Hi-Z...)

If You are interresting in the documentation, manuals etc. about it then drop me an email off-list.
Also I can help you with the PCB...

73 - Petr, OK1RP
73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
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Re: K3 Below 500 KHz RX Antenna

Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS
In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3
Phil,

as Merv, KH6/K9FD already said do not worry about the special antennas for range below 500kHz if you want to start with just reception.

Simply use your current lowbands antenna 160/80m with good preselector (BPF+preamp) and you are "on board".

I am using this setup for 137kHz and it works well for RX.

I can help You with preselector if you want...then let me know off-list.

best regards,

73 - Petr, OK1RP
73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt