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K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

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K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

Iain G4SGX
Hello,
Well after 18 months the buzzing of the K3 internal speaker has  
reached annoying proportions.
For a while it faded after switching on for 10 mins but now its a  
constant resonance at 580 Hz. Great for CW! (not)
Because of the above I am sure its because the coil has shifted in the  
speaker slightly rather than any sympathetic resonances from the case.

I'm not complaining, I understand if I contacted Elecraft I am likely  
to get a replacement speaker sent out, (Its a well documented 'extra  
feature') but really haven't got round to it, nor am i likely too,  
well down the list of priorities!
Will probably order it along with a set of CW filters when I need them.

I'm REALLY after recommendations for an external shack speaker, or is  
any good HiFi speaker good enough? I would assume some RF shielding  
and good high end sensitivity was more of an issue.

Yours.
Iain G4SGX.
Happy K3 Owner :)
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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

Mike Harris
Hi,

Well I've always found that the K3 internal speaker is pretty lousy on
CW, OK with SSB.  Not a big problem 'cos I always use phones for CW.  I
remember reading a few years ago about some experiments with enclosing
the rear of the speaker to improve the sound.  I've done all the factory
RX audio mods on #345.

Something else I've noticed is the huge variability of the tonal quality
of CW on the bands.  It's certainly not a receiver fault 'cos checking
the same signal with the K2 it sounds the same.  Two totally different
receive processing architectures.

Finally, word in the bazaars is that LoTW has blown up with loss of data
and corrupted backups.  I hope not!

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

On 06/11/2012 17:18, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hello,
> Well after 18 months the buzzing of the K3 internal speaker has
> reached annoying proportions.
> For a while it faded after switching on for 10 mins but now its a
> constant resonance at 580 Hz. Great for CW! (not)
> Because of the above I am sure its because the coil has shifted in the
> speaker slightly rather than any sympathetic resonances from the case.
>
> I'm not complaining, I understand if I contacted Elecraft I am likely
> to get a replacement speaker sent out, (Its a well documented 'extra
> feature') but really haven't got round to it, nor am i likely too,
> well down the list of priorities!
> Will probably order it along with a set of CW filters when I need them.
>
> I'm REALLY after recommendations for an external shack speaker, or is
> any good HiFi speaker good enough? I would assume some RF shielding
> and good high end sensitivity was more of an issue.
>
> Yours.
> Iain G4SGX.
> Happy K3 Owner :)
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

Don Wilhelm-4
In reply to this post by Iain G4SGX
Iain,

May I suggest that you find a pair of efficient speakers rather than
just one.  Even if you do not have the subRX, you can enjoy the
enhancement offered by the AFX effects.
I am not going to mention any specifics because I just don't know. If
you want shortwave listening in addition to ham bands, you will want
high fidelity speakers - I would look for a pair of "bookshelf"
speakers.  The ones I was fortunate enough to find in a 2nd hand store
are old Radio Shack Optimus speakers which are cubes with the height
about the same as the K3.

Computer speakers will work fine, but most are amplified and can respond
with nasty noises in the presence of RF.  If you can find a pair of
shielded speakers, that effect may not be a problem.

So shop the 2nd hand stores in your area, and maybe you can find
something suitable at a very low price.

BTW, the Elecraft speaker now has a 7 inch wire and connector attached,
so replacement is simply a matter of loosening the hardware and
attaching the new speaker - no soldering.  I have to remove that wire
when building a K2, but for the K3, it is a perfect fit.

73,
Don W3FPR.

On 11/6/2012 3:18 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hello,
> Well after 18 months the buzzing of the K3 internal speaker has
> reached annoying proportions.
> For a while it faded after switching on for 10 mins but now its a
> constant resonance at 580 Hz. Great for CW! (not)
> Because of the above I am sure its because the coil has shifted in the
> speaker slightly rather than any sympathetic resonances from the case.
>
> I'm not complaining, I understand if I contacted Elecraft I am likely
> to get a replacement speaker sent out, (Its a well documented 'extra
> feature') but really haven't got round to it, nor am i likely too,
> well down the list of priorities!
> Will probably order it along with a set of CW filters when I need them.
>
> I'm REALLY after recommendations for an external shack speaker, or is
> any good HiFi speaker good enough? I would assume some RF shielding
> and good high end sensitivity was more of an issue.
>
> Yours.
> Iain G4SGX.
> Happy K3 Owner :)
>

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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2
In reply to this post by Iain G4SGX
Hi Iain,

Glad someone else can spell the name properly ;)

The topic of external speakers has been beaten to death many times
already. You could go to http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ and
search for "K3 speakers" for some of the history....

73,

    ~iain / N6ML



On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:18 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
> Well after 18 months the buzzing of the K3 internal speaker has
> reached annoying proportions.
> For a while it faded after switching on for 10 mins but now its a
> constant resonance at 580 Hz. Great for CW! (not)
> Because of the above I am sure its because the coil has shifted in the
> speaker slightly rather than any sympathetic resonances from the case.
>
> I'm not complaining, I understand if I contacted Elecraft I am likely
> to get a replacement speaker sent out, (Its a well documented 'extra
> feature') but really haven't got round to it, nor am i likely too,
> well down the list of priorities!
> Will probably order it along with a set of CW filters when I need them.
>
> I'm REALLY after recommendations for an external shack speaker, or is
> any good HiFi speaker good enough? I would assume some RF shielding
> and good high end sensitivity was more of an issue.
>
> Yours.
> Iain G4SGX.
> Happy K3 Owner :)
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
______________________________________________________________
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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

drewko
In reply to this post by Iain G4SGX
I am using a pair of MFJ-281 Cleartone speakers with my K3.

Some say they are fantastic; some say they are junk... But they work
well enough for me for CW and SWL. They peak around 600-700 Hz. I
would prefer a little lower, 400-500 Hz, but they work ok in that
range. And no buzzing anywhere that I have heard. They also look like
they were made to match the K3.

As for RF, I  have had no issues with them. The lead-in of my end fed
wire antenna is inches away from them (though I do only operate 10
watts output).

73,
Drew
AF2Z


On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 20:18:45 +0000, Iain G4SGX. wrote:

>Hello,
>Well after 18 months the buzzing of the K3 internal speaker has  
>reached annoying proportions.
>For a while it faded after switching on for 10 mins but now its a  
>constant resonance at 580 Hz. Great for CW! (not)
>Because of the above I am sure its because the coil has shifted in the  
>speaker slightly rather than any sympathetic resonances from the case.
>
>I'm not complaining, I understand if I contacted Elecraft I am likely  
>to get a replacement speaker sent out, (Its a well documented 'extra  
>feature') but really haven't got round to it, nor am i likely too,  
>well down the list of priorities!
>Will probably order it along with a set of CW filters when I need them.
>
>I'm REALLY after recommendations for an external shack speaker, or is  
>any good HiFi speaker good enough? I would assume some RF shielding  
>and good high end sensitivity was more of an issue.
>
>Yours.
>Iain G4SGX.
>Happy K3 Owner :)
>______________________________________________________________

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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

N0AZZ
IMHO the best bang for the buck are the West Mountain Radio COMspkr for $39
they have no equal. I have speakers in the shack that cost up to $400 ea.
and these sound the best on my K3's and Never any RF on them with legal
limit ++.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of drewko
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:10 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

I am using a pair of MFJ-281 Cleartone speakers with my K3.

Some say they are fantastic; some say they are junk... But they work well
enough for me for CW and SWL. They peak around 600-700 Hz. I would prefer a
little lower, 400-500 Hz, but they work ok in that range. And no buzzing
anywhere that I have heard. They also look like they were made to match the
K3.

As for RF, I  have had no issues with them. The lead-in of my end fed wire
antenna is inches away from them (though I do only operate 10 watts output).

73,
Drew
AF2Z


On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 20:18:45 +0000, Iain G4SGX. wrote:

>Hello,
>Well after 18 months the buzzing of the K3 internal speaker has reached
>annoying proportions.
>For a while it faded after switching on for 10 mins but now its a
>constant resonance at 580 Hz. Great for CW! (not) Because of the above
>I am sure its because the coil has shifted in the speaker slightly
>rather than any sympathetic resonances from the case.
>
>I'm not complaining, I understand if I contacted Elecraft I am likely
>to get a replacement speaker sent out, (Its a well documented 'extra
>feature') but really haven't got round to it, nor am i likely too, well
>down the list of priorities!
>Will probably order it along with a set of CW filters when I need them.
>
>I'm REALLY after recommendations for an external shack speaker, or is
>any good HiFi speaker good enough? I would assume some RF shielding and
>good high end sensitivity was more of an issue.
>
>Yours.
>Iain G4SGX.
>Happy K3 Owner :)
>______________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

The COMSpkr is rated at 3W per channel ... barely better than the 2.5W
per channel of the K3.  A good pair of bookshelf speakers will provide
everything that the COMspkr does with arguably better sound than the
small speakers in the COMspkr enclosures.

A good technician can probably make a $10 pair of computer speakers as
"RF proof" as the COMspkrs just by installing the RC RFI suppression
networks most manufacturers leave off the standard amplifier board!

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/6/2012 5:00 PM, Fred Smith wrote:

> IMHO the best bang for the buck are the West Mountain Radio COMspkr for $39
> they have no equal. I have speakers in the shack that cost up to $400 ea.
> and these sound the best on my K3's and Never any RF on them with legal
> limit ++.
>
> 73,
> Fred/N0AZZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of drewko
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:10 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?
>
> I am using a pair of MFJ-281 Cleartone speakers with my K3.
>
> Some say they are fantastic; some say they are junk... But they work well
> enough for me for CW and SWL. They peak around 600-700 Hz. I would prefer a
> little lower, 400-500 Hz, but they work ok in that range. And no buzzing
> anywhere that I have heard. They also look like they were made to match the
> K3.
>
> As for RF, I  have had no issues with them. The lead-in of my end fed wire
> antenna is inches away from them (though I do only operate 10 watts output).
>
> 73,
> Drew
> AF2Z
>
>
> On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 20:18:45 +0000, Iain G4SGX. wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> Well after 18 months the buzzing of the K3 internal speaker has reached
>> annoying proportions.
>> For a while it faded after switching on for 10 mins but now its a
>> constant resonance at 580 Hz. Great for CW! (not) Because of the above
>> I am sure its because the coil has shifted in the speaker slightly
>> rather than any sympathetic resonances from the case.
>>
>> I'm not complaining, I understand if I contacted Elecraft I am likely
>> to get a replacement speaker sent out, (Its a well documented 'extra
>> feature') but really haven't got round to it, nor am i likely too, well
>> down the list of priorities!
>> Will probably order it along with a set of CW filters when I need them.
>>
>> I'm REALLY after recommendations for an external shack speaker, or is
>> any good HiFi speaker good enough? I would assume some RF shielding and
>> good high end sensitivity was more of an issue.
>>
>> Yours.
>> Iain G4SGX.
>> Happy K3 Owner :)
>> ______________________________________________________________
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

N0AZZ
Joe

The COMspkr is an ampflied speaker. Hell I have a set of Bose speakers here
that were close to $500 and don't sound any better on a radio than the $39
ones and they are as loud as you want. I got to call you on this one just
from using as many sets of speakers as I have.

Fred/N0AZZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 4:43 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?


The COMSpkr is rated at 3W per channel ... barely better than the 2.5W per
channel of the K3.  A good pair of bookshelf speakers will provide
everything that the COMspkr does with arguably better sound than the small
speakers in the COMspkr enclosures.

A good technician can probably make a $10 pair of computer speakers as "RF
proof" as the COMspkrs just by installing the RC RFI suppression networks
most manufacturers leave off the standard amplifier board!

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/6/2012 5:00 PM, Fred Smith wrote:
> IMHO the best bang for the buck are the West Mountain Radio COMspkr
> for $39 they have no equal. I have speakers in the shack that cost up to
$400 ea.

> and these sound the best on my K3's and Never any RF on them with
> legal limit ++.
>
> 73,
> Fred/N0AZZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of drewko
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:10 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?
>
> I am using a pair of MFJ-281 Cleartone speakers with my K3.
>
> Some say they are fantastic; some say they are junk... But they work
> well enough for me for CW and SWL. They peak around 600-700 Hz. I
> would prefer a little lower, 400-500 Hz, but they work ok in that
> range. And no buzzing anywhere that I have heard. They also look like
> they were made to match the K3.
>
> As for RF, I  have had no issues with them. The lead-in of my end fed
> wire antenna is inches away from them (though I do only operate 10 watts
output).

>
> 73,
> Drew
> AF2Z
>
>
> On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 20:18:45 +0000, Iain G4SGX. wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> Well after 18 months the buzzing of the K3 internal speaker has
>> reached annoying proportions.
>> For a while it faded after switching on for 10 mins but now its a
>> constant resonance at 580 Hz. Great for CW! (not) Because of the
>> above I am sure its because the coil has shifted in the speaker
>> slightly rather than any sympathetic resonances from the case.
>>
>> I'm not complaining, I understand if I contacted Elecraft I am likely
>> to get a replacement speaker sent out, (Its a well documented 'extra
>> feature') but really haven't got round to it, nor am i likely too,
>> well down the list of priorities!
>> Will probably order it along with a set of CW filters when I need them.
>>
>> I'm REALLY after recommendations for an external shack speaker, or is
>> any good HiFi speaker good enough? I would assume some RF shielding
>> and good high end sensitivity was more of an issue.
>>
>> Yours.
>> Iain G4SGX.
>> Happy K3 Owner :)
>> ______________________________________________________________
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

ke9uw
I use 6x9 car speakers

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 6, 2012, at 5:38 PM, "Fred Smith" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Joe
>
> The COMspkr is an ampflied speaker. Hell I have a set of Bose speakers here
> that were close to $500 and don't sound any better on a radio than the $39
> ones and they are as loud as you want. I got to call you on this one just
> from using as many sets of speakers as I have.
>
> Fred/N0AZZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 4:43 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?
>
>
> The COMSpkr is rated at 3W per channel ... barely better than the 2.5W per
> channel of the K3.  A good pair of bookshelf speakers will provide
> everything that the COMspkr does with arguably better sound than the small
> speakers in the COMspkr enclosures.
>
> A good technician can probably make a $10 pair of computer speakers as "RF
> proof" as the COMspkrs just by installing the RC RFI suppression networks
> most manufacturers leave off the standard amplifier board!
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 11/6/2012 5:00 PM, Fred Smith wrote:
>> IMHO the best bang for the buck are the West Mountain Radio COMspkr
>> for $39 they have no equal. I have speakers in the shack that cost up to
> $400 ea.
>> and these sound the best on my K3's and Never any RF on them with
>> legal limit ++.
>>
>> 73,
>> Fred/N0AZZ
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of drewko
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:10 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?
>>
>> I am using a pair of MFJ-281 Cleartone speakers with my K3.
>>
>> Some say they are fantastic; some say they are junk... But they work
>> well enough for me for CW and SWL. They peak around 600-700 Hz. I
>> would prefer a little lower, 400-500 Hz, but they work ok in that
>> range. And no buzzing anywhere that I have heard. They also look like
>> they were made to match the K3.
>>
>> As for RF, I  have had no issues with them. The lead-in of my end fed
>> wire antenna is inches away from them (though I do only operate 10 watts
> output).
>>
>> 73,
>> Drew
>> AF2Z
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 20:18:45 +0000, Iain G4SGX. wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Well after 18 months the buzzing of the K3 internal speaker has
>>> reached annoying proportions.
>>> For a while it faded after switching on for 10 mins but now its a
>>> constant resonance at 580 Hz. Great for CW! (not) Because of the
>>> above I am sure its because the coil has shifted in the speaker
>>> slightly rather than any sympathetic resonances from the case.
>>>
>>> I'm not complaining, I understand if I contacted Elecraft I am likely
>>> to get a replacement speaker sent out, (Its a well documented 'extra
>>> feature') but really haven't got round to it, nor am i likely too,
>>> well down the list of priorities!
>>> Will probably order it along with a set of CW filters when I need them.
>>>
>>> I'm REALLY after recommendations for an external shack speaker, or is
>>> any good HiFi speaker good enough? I would assume some RF shielding
>>> and good high end sensitivity was more of an issue.
>>>
>>> Yours.
>>> Iain G4SGX.
>>> Happy K3 Owner :)
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

K9QJS
I have a pair of  these 2 3/4 x 4 1/2 speakers, got one from a neighbor (he likes them so much he has several and one to spare) and found one at a Swap meet (Pacificon) for $12.00 .    I have the AFX going and I like the sound.    

http://www.gigaparts.com/store.php?action=profile&sku=ZJS-JTSP10     

73,
Hoop
K9QJS



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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

Joe Subich, W4TV-4
In reply to this post by N0AZZ

 > The COMspkr is an ampflied speaker.

That's right and the amplifier is not any stronger than the amplifier in
the K3.  There is no value to using a set of 3W per channel amplified
speakers on a transceiver that provides 2.5W per channel by itself.

I've used a pair of $5 speakers from surplus cellphone "remote kits" on
the K3 that sound as good as any amplified computer speakers (and I've
used a lot over the years).  If one is going to use amplified speakers
use speakers capable of significantly more *clean* power than what is
essentially a low end commodity product.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/6/2012 6:34 PM, Fred Smith wrote:

> Joe
>
> The COMspkr is an ampflied speaker. Hell I have a set of Bose speakers here
> that were close to $500 and don't sound any better on a radio than the $39
> ones and they are as loud as you want. I got to call you on this one just
> from using as many sets of speakers as I have.
>
> Fred/N0AZZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 4:43 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?
>
>
> The COMSpkr is rated at 3W per channel ... barely better than the 2.5W per
> channel of the K3.  A good pair of bookshelf speakers will provide
> everything that the COMspkr does with arguably better sound than the small
> speakers in the COMspkr enclosures.
>
> A good technician can probably make a $10 pair of computer speakers as "RF
> proof" as the COMspkrs just by installing the RC RFI suppression networks
> most manufacturers leave off the standard amplifier board!
>
> 73,
>
>      ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 11/6/2012 5:00 PM, Fred Smith wrote:
>> IMHO the best bang for the buck are the West Mountain Radio COMspkr
>> for $39 they have no equal. I have speakers in the shack that cost up to
> $400 ea.
>> and these sound the best on my K3's and Never any RF on them with
>> legal limit ++.
>>
>> 73,
>> Fred/N0AZZ
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of drewko
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:10 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?
>>
>> I am using a pair of MFJ-281 Cleartone speakers with my K3.
>>
>> Some say they are fantastic; some say they are junk... But they work
>> well enough for me for CW and SWL. They peak around 600-700 Hz. I
>> would prefer a little lower, 400-500 Hz, but they work ok in that
>> range. And no buzzing anywhere that I have heard. They also look like
>> they were made to match the K3.
>>
>> As for RF, I  have had no issues with them. The lead-in of my end fed
>> wire antenna is inches away from them (though I do only operate 10 watts
> output).
>>
>> 73,
>> Drew
>> AF2Z
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 20:18:45 +0000, Iain G4SGX. wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Well after 18 months the buzzing of the K3 internal speaker has
>>> reached annoying proportions.
>>> For a while it faded after switching on for 10 mins but now its a
>>> constant resonance at 580 Hz. Great for CW! (not) Because of the
>>> above I am sure its because the coil has shifted in the speaker
>>> slightly rather than any sympathetic resonances from the case.
>>>
>>> I'm not complaining, I understand if I contacted Elecraft I am likely
>>> to get a replacement speaker sent out, (Its a well documented 'extra
>>> feature') but really haven't got round to it, nor am i likely too,
>>> well down the list of priorities!
>>> Will probably order it along with a set of CW filters when I need them.
>>>
>>> I'm REALLY after recommendations for an external shack speaker, or is
>>> any good HiFi speaker good enough? I would assume some RF shielding
>>> and good high end sensitivity was more of an issue.
>>>
>>> Yours.
>>> Iain G4SGX.
>>> Happy K3 Owner :)
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
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>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5377 - Release Date: 11/06/12
>
>
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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

Andrew Moore-3
That may be true in terms of power gain, but there may be some value in
having the speakers front-firing instead of top-firing like the K3's
built-in speaker.

Another cheap/easy solution might be a PVC pipe 90-degree elbow sitting on
top of the rig to redirect the sound (mono only).

73,
--Andrew, NV1B
maineware.net
..


On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>  > The COMspkr is an ampflied speaker.
>
> That's right and the amplifier is not any stronger than the amplifier in
> the K3.  There is no value to using a set of 3W per channel amplified
> speakers on a transceiver that provides 2.5W per channel by itself.
>
>
>
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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

Don Wilhelm-4
Andrew,

A right angle elbow might be one solution, but the K3 does have stereo
capability.  Connect stereo speakers to the rear panel speaker jack and
you can enjoy the AFX effects if you do not have the KRX3 installed, and
the diversity reception and other stereo effects are available if the
KRX3 is installed.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/6/2012 8:57 PM, Andrew Moore wrote:

> That may be true in terms of power gain, but there may be some value in
> having the speakers front-firing instead of top-firing like the K3's
> built-in speaker.
>
> Another cheap/easy solution might be a PVC pipe 90-degree elbow sitting on
> top of the rig to redirect the sound (mono only).
>
> 73,
> --Andrew, NV1B
> maineware.net
> ..
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>   > The COMspkr is an ampflied speaker.
>>
>> That's right and the amplifier is not any stronger than the amplifier in
>> the K3.  There is no value to using a set of 3W per channel amplified
>> speakers on a transceiver that provides 2.5W per channel by itself.
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

drewko
I wasn't all that impressed with how the AFX sounded on headphones, so
I was surprised how much better it was on speakers, even the small
ones I have sitting on top of the rig with that minimal amount of
separation. Anyone who is considering getting an external speaker
should definitely get a pair of them and hook them up in stereo.

73,
Drew
AF2Z



On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 21:17:18 -0500, Don W3FPR wrote:

>Andrew,
>
>A right angle elbow might be one solution, but the K3 does have stereo
>capability.  Connect stereo speakers to the rear panel speaker jack and
>you can enjoy the AFX effects if you do not have the KRX3 installed, and
>the diversity reception and other stereo effects are available if the
>KRX3 is installed.
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>

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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

Tim Tucker
In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
Sorry Joe, but I'm with Fred on this one, as well.  You're speaking from
what you believe to be true based on specs you're reading, but it's obvious
to me as one who has actually used various speakers on the K3, including
the COMSpkr, that you don't have as complete a picture as some of us who
have actually tested this.

I love the K3 and wouldn't trade it for another rig, but it's not perfect.
It's ability to drive external speakers is one of the examples where it
does not excel.  Compared to other rigs, it basically sucks .  Period.  I'm
young compared to most of you guys and have no hearing loss and have quite
a good reputation amongst my friends for having an ear for what *sounds*
good.  After trying quite a few different external speakers setups with the
K3 and not being happy with the overall volume output, I decided that the
K3 was probably too finicky with what it needs for speaker impedance and
decided to just go with a set of powered external speakers and be done with
it.  The COMspkr is so damn loud that it practically blasts me out of my
den if I turn it up much. I don't like to use headphones if I don't have
to, and with the COMspkr, I rarely need to.

Regardless of what you think the specs say, you need to try this for
yourself and make an informed decision.


On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>  > The COMspkr is an ampflied speaker.
>
> That's right and the amplifier is not any stronger than the amplifier in
> the K3.  There is no value to using a set of 3W per channel amplified
> speakers on a transceiver that provides 2.5W per channel by itself.
>
> I've used a pair of $5 speakers from surplus cellphone "remote kits" on
> the K3 that sound as good as any amplified computer speakers (and I've
> used a lot over the years).  If one is going to use amplified speakers
> use speakers capable of significantly more *clean* power than what is
> essentially a low end commodity product.
>
> 73,
>
>     ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 11/6/2012 6:34 PM, Fred Smith wrote:
> > Joe
> >
> > The COMspkr is an ampflied speaker. Hell I have a set of Bose speakers
> here
> > that were close to $500 and don't sound any better on a radio than the
> $39
> > ones and they are as loud as you want. I got to call you on this one just
> > from using as many sets of speakers as I have.
> >
> > Fred/N0AZZ
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email]
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 4:43 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?
> >
> >
> > The COMSpkr is rated at 3W per channel ... barely better than the 2.5W
> per
> > channel of the K3.  A good pair of bookshelf speakers will provide
> > everything that the COMspkr does with arguably better sound than the
> small
> > speakers in the COMspkr enclosures.
> >
> > A good technician can probably make a $10 pair of computer speakers as
> "RF
> > proof" as the COMspkrs just by installing the RC RFI suppression networks
> > most manufacturers leave off the standard amplifier board!
> >
> > 73,
> >
> >      ... Joe, W4TV
> >
> >
> > On 11/6/2012 5:00 PM, Fred Smith wrote:
> >> IMHO the best bang for the buck are the West Mountain Radio COMspkr
> >> for $39 they have no equal. I have speakers in the shack that cost up to
> > $400 ea.
> >> and these sound the best on my K3's and Never any RF on them with
> >> legal limit ++.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Fred/N0AZZ
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [hidden email]
> >> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of drewko
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:10 PM
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?
> >>
> >> I am using a pair of MFJ-281 Cleartone speakers with my K3.
> >>
> >> Some say they are fantastic; some say they are junk... But they work
> >> well enough for me for CW and SWL. They peak around 600-700 Hz. I
> >> would prefer a little lower, 400-500 Hz, but they work ok in that
> >> range. And no buzzing anywhere that I have heard. They also look like
> >> they were made to match the K3.
> >>
> >> As for RF, I  have had no issues with them. The lead-in of my end fed
> >> wire antenna is inches away from them (though I do only operate 10 watts
> > output).
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Drew
> >> AF2Z
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 20:18:45 +0000, Iain G4SGX. wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello,
> >>> Well after 18 months the buzzing of the K3 internal speaker has
> >>> reached annoying proportions.
> >>> For a while it faded after switching on for 10 mins but now its a
> >>> constant resonance at 580 Hz. Great for CW! (not) Because of the
> >>> above I am sure its because the coil has shifted in the speaker
> >>> slightly rather than any sympathetic resonances from the case.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not complaining, I understand if I contacted Elecraft I am likely
> >>> to get a replacement speaker sent out, (Its a well documented 'extra
> >>> feature') but really haven't got round to it, nor am i likely too,
> >>> well down the list of priorities!
> >>> Will probably order it along with a set of CW filters when I need them.
> >>>
> >>> I'm REALLY after recommendations for an external shack speaker, or is
> >>> any good HiFi speaker good enough? I would assume some RF shielding
> >>> and good high end sensitivity was more of an issue.
> >>>
> >>> Yours.
> >>> Iain G4SGX.
> >>> Happy K3 Owner :)
> >>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> >> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> >> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5377 - Release Date: 11/06/12
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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--
---------------------------------------
Owner, worldwidedx.com
AE6LX, Amateur Radio
NNN0ITA, Navy MARS
NNN0GAF FOUR, Southern CA Director Assistant for Training, Navy MARS
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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Tim,

> you don't have as complete a picture as some of us who have actually
> tested this.

I *HAVE* used amplified (powered) speakers with the K3 and I've used
bookshelf speakers and I've used cheap cellphone "hands free" kit
speakers with the K3.  I also have almost 40 years experience in
professional audio - from recording studios to radio stations to TV
stations and designing broadcast facilities - I'm more than capable
of critical audio analysis.

The point is that the K3 does not need another 3W per channel external
audio amplifier - that simply duplicates the internal amplifier - if it
is coupled with reasonably efficient, external, front facing speakers.
Even a pair of the MFJ or Jetstream "communications" speakers are
*half* the cost of the COMspkr - they're passive with no chance of
RFI and they work just as well with the K3's internal amplifier as the
COMspkr or other 3W per channel powered "computer" speakers.

*IF* one feels the need for an external amplifier, bypass the internal
amplifier by using the Line Out and high cut filter to drive a better
amplifier - something capable of 10W per channel at 0.01% THD instead
of 3W per channel at 1% THD like the COMSpkr.  Alternatively, set up
the external amplifier with a 16 - 32 Ohm input impedance, set the K3
to low AF gain to keep the LM4950 in the cleanest part of its design
range and use the external amplifier to provide the power gain.

Just like RF power amplifiers, audio amplifiers are all about selecting
the right devices, using proper design and bypassing, then matching to
the right load.  An audio amplifier needs to be able to source enough
current to drive the speaker without saturation or clipping.  The audio
chip used in COMspkr and other 3W per channel computer speakers is
simply no better or cleaner than the LM4950 used in the K3 - they all
show high THD when operated at maximum output level because they just
can not source the current without driving the outputs into saturation.
That is nothing more or less than simple physics.

 > The COMspkr is so damn loud that it practically blasts me out of my
 > den if I turn it up much.

I can hear the K3 at the opposite end of the house with the internal
amplifier and my bookshelf speakers.  Again, one does not need just
another set of 3W per channel computer speakers.  If one wants cleaner
audio, use a bigger, cleaner external amplifier for the power gain
but with decent, efficient speakers, the 3W/channel amplifier in the
K3 is more than sufficient and certainly just as good as 3W/channel
computer speakers.


73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/7/2012 12:11 AM, Tim Tucker wrote:

> Sorry Joe, but I'm with Fred on this one, as well.  You're speaking from
> what you believe to be true based on specs you're reading, but it's obvious
> to me as one who has actually used various speakers on the K3, including
> the COMSpkr, that you don't have as complete a picture as some of us who
> have actually tested this.
>
> I love the K3 and wouldn't trade it for another rig, but it's not perfect.
> It's ability to drive external speakers is one of the examples where it
> does not excel.  Compared to other rigs, it basically sucks .  Period.  I'm
> young compared to most of you guys and have no hearing loss and have quite
> a good reputation amongst my friends for having an ear for what *sounds*
> good.  After trying quite a few different external speakers setups with the
> K3 and not being happy with the overall volume output, I decided that the
> K3 was probably too finicky with what it needs for speaker impedance and
> decided to just go with a set of powered external speakers and be done with
> it.  The COMspkr is so damn loud that it practically blasts me out of my
> den if I turn it up much. I don't like to use headphones if I don't have
> to, and with the COMspkr, I rarely need to.
>
> Regardless of what you think the specs say, you need to try this for
> yourself and make an informed decision.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>   > The COMspkr is an ampflied speaker.
>>
>> That's right and the amplifier is not any stronger than the amplifier in
>> the K3.  There is no value to using a set of 3W per channel amplified
>> speakers on a transceiver that provides 2.5W per channel by itself.
>>
>> I've used a pair of $5 speakers from surplus cellphone "remote kits" on
>> the K3 that sound as good as any amplified computer speakers (and I've
>> used a lot over the years).  If one is going to use amplified speakers
>> use speakers capable of significantly more *clean* power than what is
>> essentially a low end commodity product.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>>      ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 11/6/2012 6:34 PM, Fred Smith wrote:
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> The COMspkr is an ampflied speaker. Hell I have a set of Bose speakers
>> here
>>> that were close to $500 and don't sound any better on a radio than the
>> $39
>>> ones and they are as loud as you want. I got to call you on this one just
>>> from using as many sets of speakers as I have.
>>>
>>> Fred/N0AZZ
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 4:43 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?
>>>
>>>
>>> The COMSpkr is rated at 3W per channel ... barely better than the 2.5W
>> per
>>> channel of the K3.  A good pair of bookshelf speakers will provide
>>> everything that the COMspkr does with arguably better sound than the
>> small
>>> speakers in the COMspkr enclosures.
>>>
>>> A good technician can probably make a $10 pair of computer speakers as
>> "RF
>>> proof" as the COMspkrs just by installing the RC RFI suppression networks
>>> most manufacturers leave off the standard amplifier board!
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>>       ... Joe, W4TV
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/6/2012 5:00 PM, Fred Smith wrote:
>>>> IMHO the best bang for the buck are the West Mountain Radio COMspkr
>>>> for $39 they have no equal. I have speakers in the shack that cost up to
>>> $400 ea.
>>>> and these sound the best on my K3's and Never any RF on them with
>>>> legal limit ++.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Fred/N0AZZ
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [hidden email]
>>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of drewko
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:10 PM
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?
>>>>
>>>> I am using a pair of MFJ-281 Cleartone speakers with my K3.
>>>>
>>>> Some say they are fantastic; some say they are junk... But they work
>>>> well enough for me for CW and SWL. They peak around 600-700 Hz. I
>>>> would prefer a little lower, 400-500 Hz, but they work ok in that
>>>> range. And no buzzing anywhere that I have heard. They also look like
>>>> they were made to match the K3.
>>>>
>>>> As for RF, I  have had no issues with them. The lead-in of my end fed
>>>> wire antenna is inches away from them (though I do only operate 10 watts
>>> output).
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Drew
>>>> AF2Z
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 20:18:45 +0000, Iain G4SGX. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> Well after 18 months the buzzing of the K3 internal speaker has
>>>>> reached annoying proportions.
>>>>> For a while it faded after switching on for 10 mins but now its a
>>>>> constant resonance at 580 Hz. Great for CW! (not) Because of the
>>>>> above I am sure its because the coil has shifted in the speaker
>>>>> slightly rather than any sympathetic resonances from the case.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not complaining, I understand if I contacted Elecraft I am likely
>>>>> to get a replacement speaker sent out, (Its a well documented 'extra
>>>>> feature') but really haven't got round to it, nor am i likely too,
>>>>> well down the list of priorities!
>>>>> Will probably order it along with a set of CW filters when I need them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm REALLY after recommendations for an external shack speaker, or is
>>>>> any good HiFi speaker good enough? I would assume some RF shielding
>>>>> and good high end sensitivity was more of an issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yours.
>>>>> Iain G4SGX.
>>>>> Happy K3 Owner :)
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>
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>
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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

Tim Tucker
Or, one can simply choose to pay an extra $20-$30 and bypass all of the
fooling around by trying to find the right combination and just buy
something that others have proven that works.  Sacrificing the Line Out for
external speakers is a pretty lousy solution, IMO.

You originally replied that the COMspkr wouldn't work any better than the
internal speaker, however I know from personal experience that it does
exactly that.  Take off your engineer hat and put on your consumer hat.
For some of us, spending an extra couple of bucks to just be done with the
whole problem (that shouldn't exist in the first place) is worth it.  I
don't need or want to go execute an algorithm to figure out which speaker
will allow me to hear the rig at an acceptable volume.  If you like doing
that, no one is going to criticize you, however, not all of us feel like
going through that exercise.

My own experience is that I tried a bunch of external speakers with the K3
and the results sucked - in fact they were worse than other Icom and Yaesu
rigs sitting on the bench at the same time using the same speakers.  I got
tired of fooling around with it and decided to purchase the powered COMspkr
and was satisfied. Are there better solutions?  Perhaps.  Do I care?  No.
My problem is solved and I spend time enjoying the radio instead of cursing
at the volume output of the K3.



> *IF* one feels the need for an external amplifier, bypass the internal
> amplifier by using the Line Out and high cut filter to drive a better
> amplifier - something capable of 10W per channel at 0.01% THD instead
> of 3W per channel at 1% THD like the COMSpkr.  Alternatively, set up
> the external amplifier with a 16 - 32 Ohm input impedance, set the K3
> to low AF gain to keep the LM4950 in the cleanest part of its design
> range and use the external amplifier to provide the power gain.
>
> Just like RF power amplifiers, audio amplifiers are all about selecting
> the right devices, using proper design and bypassing, then matching to
> the right load.
>



On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:31 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *IF* one feels the need for an external amplifier, bypass the internal
> amplifier by using the Line Out and high cut filter to drive a better
> amplifier - something capable of 10W per channel at 0.01% THD instead
> of 3W per channel at 1% THD like the COMSpkr.  Alternatively, set up
> the external amplifier with a 16 - 32 Ohm input impedance, set the K3
> to low AF gain to keep the LM4950 in the cleanest part of its design
> range and use the external amplifier to provide the power gain.
>
> Just like RF power amplifiers, audio amplifiers are all about selecting
> the right devices, using proper design and bypassing, then matching to
> the right load.  An audio amplifier needs to be able to source enough
> current to drive the speaker without saturation or clipping.  The audio
> chip used in COMspkr and other 3W per channel computer speakers is
> simply no better or cleaner than the LM4950 used in the K3 - they all
> show high THD when operated at maximum output level because they just
> can not source the current without driving the outputs into saturation.
> That is nothing more or less than simple physics.
>



--
---------------------------------------
Owner, worldwidedx.com
AE6LX, Amateur Radio
NNN0ITA, Navy MARS
NNN0GAF FOUR, Southern CA Director Assistant for Training, Navy MARS
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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

N0AZZ
I must be of the same mind KISS and they provide that at a very reasonable
cost. Could I do better? I'm sure that I could but the reason I went to the
K3's vs. my FTDX-5000MP and the u2R over my MK2R+ was simplicity and size. I
can hear these speakers where I have trouble with others because of hearing
loss and the constant ringing.

73,
Fred/N0AZZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tim Tucker
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 1:50 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

Or, one can simply choose to pay an extra $20-$30 and bypass all of the
fooling around by trying to find the right combination and just buy
something that others have proven that works.  Sacrificing the Line Out for
external speakers is a pretty lousy solution, IMO.

You originally replied that the COMspkr wouldn't work any better than the
internal speaker, however I know from personal experience that it does
exactly that.  Take off your engineer hat and put on your consumer hat.
For some of us, spending an extra couple of bucks to just be done with the
whole problem (that shouldn't exist in the first place) is worth it.  I
don't need or want to go execute an algorithm to figure out which speaker
will allow me to hear the rig at an acceptable volume.  If you like doing
that, no one is going to criticize you, however, not all of us feel like
going through that exercise.

My own experience is that I tried a bunch of external speakers with the K3
and the results sucked - in fact they were worse than other Icom and Yaesu
rigs sitting on the bench at the same time using the same speakers.  I got
tired of fooling around with it and decided to purchase the powered COMspkr
and was satisfied. Are there better solutions?  Perhaps.  Do I care?  No.
My problem is solved and I spend time enjoying the radio instead of cursing
at the volume output of the K3.



> *IF* one feels the need for an external amplifier, bypass the internal
> amplifier by using the Line Out and high cut filter to drive a better
> amplifier - something capable of 10W per channel at 0.01% THD instead
> of 3W per channel at 1% THD like the COMSpkr.  Alternatively, set up
> the external amplifier with a 16 - 32 Ohm input impedance, set the K3
> to low AF gain to keep the LM4950 in the cleanest part of its design
> range and use the external amplifier to provide the power gain.
>
> Just like RF power amplifiers, audio amplifiers are all about
> selecting the right devices, using proper design and bypassing, then
> matching to the right load.
>



On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:31 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *IF* one feels the need for an external amplifier, bypass the internal
> amplifier by using the Line Out and high cut filter to drive a better
> amplifier - something capable of 10W per channel at 0.01% THD instead
> of 3W per channel at 1% THD like the COMSpkr.  Alternatively, set up
> the external amplifier with a 16 - 32 Ohm input impedance, set the K3
> to low AF gain to keep the LM4950 in the cleanest part of its design
> range and use the external amplifier to provide the power gain.
>
> Just like RF power amplifiers, audio amplifiers are all about
> selecting the right devices, using proper design and bypassing, then
> matching to the right load.  An audio amplifier needs to be able to
> source enough current to drive the speaker without saturation or
> clipping.  The audio chip used in COMspkr and other 3W per channel
> computer speakers is simply no better or cleaner than the LM4950 used
> in the K3 - they all show high THD when operated at maximum output
> level because they just can not source the current without driving the
outputs into saturation.
> That is nothing more or less than simple physics.
>



--
---------------------------------------
Owner, worldwidedx.com
AE6LX, Amateur Radio
NNN0ITA, Navy MARS
NNN0GAF FOUR, Southern CA Director Assistant for Training, Navy MARS
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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

Bill N2BC
A different problem & a different solution...

This discussion has involved a single rig (K3) and it's speakers.  My
situation is different, but I suspect likely relevant to many.

When I ordered my K3 and settled in for the early order wait I spent a bit
of time (months) contemplating how to fit the K3 into my op desk.  An
inventory of the op desk at the time of the order:

Elecraft K2, Icom 756, Small HD AM/FM radio, PC with "standard issue"
amplified speakers (aka cheap),  2M FM, 440 FM, and probably some other
stuff I simply don't recall.   Oh, there was an entire shelf of mis-matched,
garbage to OK speakers connected to most of the radios.

Add in a legal limit amp, and a separate desk with a couple hundred pounds
of AM stuff - and another speaker.  You get a lot of hideous squawks from
the abundance of speakers and RF.

Add to the mix the forthcoming K3 - and it needs TWO speakers!

The fix:  Two new gizmos:

Behringer "Eurorack Pro" (~$100 back then) high level mixer.   Handles
line-level into 8 stereo inputs
Bose Companion 2  PC speaker set (~$200 I think)

I built a handful of stereo and mono isolation boxes (600:600 Hammond
transformers) - not needed for the K3.

Yeah it's a lot of $$.  But each radio can be easily mixed with all the
other sources, silenced with the push of a button, and there is a mixed
headphone level output with its own gain control.  The entire speaker system
can be silenced with a touch of a button.
ZERO RF issues.  The top shelf of my op desk is no longer is no longer
sagging under the tonnage of a pile of ugly speakers. AND IT SOUNDS GREAT!
(I'm a grey-hair and still like my 70's music....LOUD).

I had listened to Bose audio goodies many times but found the $$ a bit of a
stretch.   The same is true of the PC speakers... but not out of this
universe.  The first thing I did was subject the system to some RF abuse
with the intent of taking it back forthwith.  That was years ago.

So... solve lots of problems, spend a few more bucks, and enjoy!

Aim harpoons off list pls.

73, Bill

Snip:

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Re: K3 Speaker buzz - But which external speaker ?

N4OI - Ken
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
<quote author="Don Wilhelm-4">
[...]  Connect stereo speakers to the rear panel speaker jack and you can enjoy the AFX effects [...]

My experience with AFX effects (without the second receiver) for CW is not good.  A pure CW tone seems to create "dead spots" around the shack where I cannot copy even a good quality signal.  As a result, I am currently using a single external speaker.

73 ES GOD BLESS U ES URS DE KEN N4OI  

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