K3 UOS?

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K3 UOS?

Jim Miller
Does the RTTY decoder in the K3 implement UOS?

73

Jim ab3cv
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Re: K3 UOS?

Don Wilhelm-4
OK, what is UOS?  Unidentified OffSet?  Or some other recent acronym?
 From an "I hate acronyms subscriber" - plain text is always appreciated.

Don W3FPR

On 4/7/2016 8:06 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

> Does the RTTY decoder in the K3 implement UOS?
>
> 73
>
> Jim ab3cv
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Re: K3 UOS?

Gary Gregory-2
UOS...Unidentified Operating System?
:-)

From one who is clueless....
Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
Sent: ‎8/‎04/‎2016 10:23 AM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 UOS?

OK, what is UOS?  Unidentified OffSet?  Or some other recent acronym?
 From an "I hate acronyms subscriber" - plain text is always appreciated.

Don W3FPR

On 4/7/2016 8:06 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

> Does the RTTY decoder in the K3 implement UOS?
>
> 73
>
> Jim ab3cv
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: K3 UOS?

Bill Frantz
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
I asked in private email.

It is "Unshift On Space". I assume it means go back to letters
from numbers when receiving a space character.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/7/16 at 5:22 PM, [hidden email] (Don Wilhelm) wrote:

>OK, what is UOS?  Unidentified OffSet?  Or some other recent acronym?
>From an "I hate acronyms subscriber" - plain text is always appreciated.
>
>Don W3FPR
>
>On 4/7/2016 8:06 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
>>Does the RTTY decoder in the K3 implement UOS?
>>
>>73
>>
>>Jim ab3cv
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Re: K3 UOS?

Jim Sheldon
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
RTTY acronym, "unshift on space". Machines had to be shifted into figures and stayed there until shifted back to letters.  Unshift on space was devised to bring the receiving machine back to letters when a spacebar character was received to keep from printing gibberish if the shift to letters character was garbled or (heaven forbid) forgotten.

Jim, W0EB

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 7, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Gary <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> UOS...Unidentified Operating System?
> :-)
>
> From one who is clueless....
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: ‎8/‎04/‎2016 10:23 AM
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 UOS?
>
> OK, what is UOS?  Unidentified OffSet?  Or some other recent acronym?
> From an "I hate acronyms subscriber" - plain text is always appreciated.
>
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 4/7/2016 8:06 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
>> Does the RTTY decoder in the K3 implement UOS?
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Jim ab3cv
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
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Re: K3 UOS?

Gary Gregory-2
Aha, Jim to the rescue of us of little anacronym knowledge :-)

Thank you Sir, my life can now continue in its current state of normalcy....ahem....

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jim Sheldon" <[hidden email]>
Sent: ‎8/‎04/‎2016 10:32 AM
To: "Gary" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 UOS?

RTTY acronym, "unshift on space". Machines had to be shifted into figures and stayed there until shifted back to letters.  Unshift on space was devised to bring the receiving machine back to letters when a spacebar character was received to keep from printing gibberish if the shift to letters character was garbled or (heaven forbid) forgotten.

Jim, W0EB

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 7, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Gary <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> UOS...Unidentified Operating System?
> :-)
>
> From one who is clueless....
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: ‎8/‎04/‎2016 10:23 AM
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 UOS?
>
> OK, what is UOS?  Unidentified OffSet?  Or some other recent acronym?
> From an "I hate acronyms subscriber" - plain text is always appreciated.
>
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 4/7/2016 8:06 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
>> Does the RTTY decoder in the K3 implement UOS?
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Jim ab3cv
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
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>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
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Re: K3 UOS?

Rick WA6NHC-2
In reply to this post by Jim Sheldon
And because there were variations in how the machines (the actual
teletype mechanism) could be set up, what we now presume for <EOL> (End
Of Line) is ENTER, it wasn't uncommon to see

<CR><CR><LF><LTR> or variations on the theme <CR> carriage return, <LF>
Line Feed (advance one line) <LTR> LeTteRs... so that it was (almost)
guaranteed to start each line at a known point.

UOS should NEVER be presumed, even with software.  This was a good
question.... now awaiting an answer since we're on the same page :-D

Rick NHC (used a Kleinshmidt)


On 4/7/2016 5:32 PM, Jim Sheldon wrote:

> RTTY acronym, "unshift on space". Machines had to be shifted into figures and stayed there until shifted back to letters.  Unshift on space was devised to bring the receiving machine back to letters when a spacebar character was received to keep from printing gibberish if the shift to letters character was garbled or (heaven forbid) forgotten.
>
> Jim, W0EB
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 7, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Gary <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> UOS...Unidentified Operating System?
>> :-)
>>
>>  From one who is clueless....
>> Gary
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: ‎8/‎04/‎2016 10:23 AM
>> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 UOS?
>>
>> OK, what is UOS?  Unidentified OffSet?  Or some other recent acronym?
>>  From an "I hate acronyms subscriber" - plain text is always appreciated.
>>
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>> On 4/7/2016 8:06 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
>>> Does the RTTY decoder in the K3 implement UOS?
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>> Jim ab3cv
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: K3 UOS?

Elecraft mailing list
In reply to this post by Jim Miller
Ever since I bought my KX3, I have wondered just how the software handles the shift between letters and numbers,  but I never thought to ask this forum.   I thought about doing a few tests to find out, but since I haven't worked RTTY since I sold my Model 19 in 1990, it just never was a priority. 

 So just how does the software handle the shift?

<CR> <CR> <LF> <LF> <LTRS>
MARK,
<CR> <LF>
KE <NBRS> 6 <LTRS> BB
(Wow, that was hard to type on my Android phone!!!)
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Re: K3 UOS?

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
On a Model 15 or 19, you could see the mechanism move on a <figs> or
<ltrs> character.

On a 28, you could see the typebox shift positions.

In software, it's the same: you have a 5 bit baudot character and a
figs/ltrs state, they're read, decoded and the appropriate character
"printed" on the display.

I'd expect the encoding algorithms to follow the best practices while
sending and decoding to handle all the odd variations that might be out
there.

-- Lynn

On 4/7/2016 8:03 PM, Mark, KE6BB via Elecraft wrote:
> Ever since I bought my KX3, I have wondered just how the software handles the shift between letters and numbers,  but I never thought to ask this forum.   I thought about doing a few tests to find out, but since I haven't worked RTTY since I sold my Model 19 in 1990, it just never was a priority.

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Re: K3 UOS?

Bob-2
In reply to this post by Rick WA6NHC-2
Well as I understood it from years ago it was not just setup but condition of
the machine too.   Today in logic terms it would be a "race" condition.  Would
the carriage actually be returned and ready in time?  Quite often not so the
solution was to send multiple CR's or LF's.  The mechanical equivalent of one
shots or logic delay loops.  This was done before RTTY and was a problem on TTY
current loops.

No RTTY QSO's in years but have functional setup for receive, K3 audio to a
Timewave 59Y driving a model 15.  Great demo and conversation piece for visiting
hams.

73,
Bob
K2TK  ex KN2TKR(1956) & K2TKR


On 4/7/2016 9:08 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:

> And because there were variations in how the machines (the actual teletype
> mechanism) could be set up, what we now presume for <EOL> (End Of Line) is
> ENTER, it wasn't uncommon to see
>
> <CR><CR><LF><LTR> or variations on the theme <CR> carriage return, <LF> Line
> Feed (advance one line) <LTR> LeTteRs... so that it was (almost) guaranteed to
> start each line at a known point.
>
> UOS should NEVER be presumed, even with software.  This was a good
> question.... now awaiting an answer since we're on the same page :-D
>
> Rick NHC (used a Kleinshmidt)
>
>
> On 4/7/2016 5:32 PM, Jim Sheldon wrote:
>> RTTY acronym, "unshift on space". Machines had to be shifted into figures and
>> stayed there until shifted back to letters.  Unshift on space was devised to
>> bring the receiving machine back to letters when a spacebar character was
>> received to keep from printing gibberish if the shift to letters character
>> was garbled or (heaven forbid) forgotten.
>>
>> Jim, W0EB
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Apr 7, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Gary <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> UOS...Unidentified Operating System?
>>> :-)
>>>
>>>  From one who is clueless....
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: ‎8/‎04/‎2016 10:23 AM
>>> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 UOS?
>>>
>>> OK, what is UOS?  Unidentified OffSet?  Or some other recent acronym?
>>>  From an "I hate acronyms subscriber" - plain text is always appreciated.
>>>
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>>> On 4/7/2016 8:06 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
>>>> Does the RTTY decoder in the K3 implement UOS?
>>>>
>>>> 73
>>>>
>>>> Jim ab3cv


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Re: K3 UOS?

Bill Frantz
On the Teletype model 33 and 35, one character delay was enough
for the carriage to return to the left margin. That made the CR
LF sequence the favored new line. (The LF could be executed in
one character time.) These machines used ASCII code as compared
with the model 28 and earlier models which used the Baudot code
we use for RTTY. I understand that these earlier machines had
the same timing, but I never had any direct experience with them.

Indeed, if you used the LF CR sequence, you needed to insert a
one character time delay for timing. A Rubout character was
often used for this delay.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/8/16 at 9:59 PM, [hidden email] (Bob) wrote:

>Well as I understood it from years ago it was not just setup
>but condition of the machine too.   Today in logic terms it
>would be a "race" condition.  Would the carriage actually be
>returned and ready in time?  Quite often not so the solution
>was to send multiple CR's or LF's.  The mechanical equivalent
>of one shots or logic delay loops.  This was done before RTTY
>and was a problem on TTY current loops.
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Re: K3 UOS?

Bill-3
The question and the asker have been beaten to a pulp with these answers
(some rather insulting). All that was asked could have been answered
with a simple yes or a no.

This is exactly why many, and myself, are reluctant to ask questions here.

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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Re: K3 UOS? [Answer]

wayne burdick
Administrator
In reply to this post by Jim Miller
Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Does the RTTY decoder in the K3 implement UOS?


Hi Jim,

Would have answered this sooner but I was on vacation last week.

No, we do not do UOS (unshift-on-space). However, there's a menu entry in the K3/K3S, CONFIG:TTY LTR, that you can assign to a programmable function switch (PFx/Mx). Having done this, you can press that switch to do a figures-to-letters shift at any time.

73,
Wayne
N6KR




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Re: K3 UOS? [Answer]

Bill Frantz
I notice that fldigi seems to have unshift on space on by default.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/11/16 at 8:35 AM, [hidden email] (Wayne Burdick) wrote:

>Jim Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>Does the RTTY decoder in the K3 implement UOS?
>
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>Would have answered this sooner but I was on vacation last week.
>No, we do not do UOS (unshift-on-space). However, there's a
>menu entry in the K3/K3S, CONFIG:TTY LTR, that you can assign
>to a programmable function switch (PFx/Mx). Having done this,
>you can press that switch to do a figures-to-letters shift at
>any time.
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