K3: past chirp report

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K3: past chirp report

Richard Fjeld-2
A few weeks ago, someone had received a chirp report.  Did that ever get
resolved?

Dick, n0ce

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Re: K3: past chirp report

Doug Smith [W7KF]
Yup, that was me.

There were some good suggestions made here and I’ve checked them all and I’m unable to get the K3S to chirp.  So, at present: unable to replicate..

Some of the suggested things I’ve checked:

1) SWR at the K3S while driving the ACOM 1500 (same operating conditions) is 1.05 to 1.  SWR between the ACOM and the antenna at the noted frequency is 1.2 to 1.

2) Voltage at the K3S is 13.8 key up and 13.2 key down; seems OK.  Power supply is a switcher which I’ve used for some years.

3) K3S is drawing 21.96 amps key down.  (Not running 100 watts into the amp.)

4) I’ve intentionally “mis-tuned” the amp just in case that is what was going on when the OO noticed the chirp.  I did this by tuning up properly at 14.001 and then QSYing to 14.083 and transmitting while monitoring with a different receiver.  No chirp, clicks or other anomalies.  This is a much worse operating condition than I normally encounter.  It’s so easy to tune the ACOM that I keep it properly tweaked.  Also, I was operating in CW SS and in the middle of a 2 hour run when the OO heard me chirping and I have a tough time imagining that I’d sit on a given frequency for two hours without making sure I was properly tuned.

5) I do not use ALC between the K3S and the ACOM.  I do run with specific power levels on each band (great feature, BTW) such that I’m not able to overdrive the amp.

6) I’ve checked my in-the-shack coax jumper cables and I don’t see any issues.  The antenna end of the coax is currently under 2 feet of snow so I haven’t looked at it.  But, I’m getting normal SWR readings here in the shack.  There isn’t any arcing going on or the amp would shut down.  No RF in the shack; no TVI or other issues in the house.

7) I recently made 535 QSO’s in NAQP CW and did quite a bit of listening on a second receiver, never heard a chirp.  I wasn’t using the ACOM so I ran the K3S at 100 watts.  And, finally, I have not yet received another OO report after the NAQP.    ;-)

I dunno what to think.  The issue remains unresolved but I am unable to replicate the problem.

73,
Doug, W7KF
http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>



> On Jan 19, 2017, at 9:44 AM, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A few weeks ago, someone had received a chirp report.  Did that ever get
> resolved?
>
> Dick, n0ce
>
> --
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Re: K3: past chirp report

ab2tc
Hi,

My remarks to bulleted items below:

1) Sounds good.
2) Where are these voltages measured? If they are measured outside the K3 with an accurate DVM, I would say they are marginal. If so, raise the key up voltage to 14.2V. If they are measured by the K3S' internal voltmeter they might be OK.
3) That's way high. My K3S draws no more than 17A at full 100W out.

I can't really comment on the other bullets. I have heard other reports of K3 chirps that turn out to be nothing more than hearsay.

AB2TC - Knut
Doug Smith [W7KF] wrote
Yup, that was me.

There were some good suggestions made here and I’ve checked them all and I’m unable to get the K3S to chirp.  So, at present: unable to replicate..

Some of the suggested things I’ve checked:

1) SWR at the K3S while driving the ACOM 1500 (same operating conditions) is 1.05 to 1.  SWR between the ACOM and the antenna at the noted frequency is 1.2 to 1.

2) Voltage at the K3S is 13.8 key up and 13.2 key down; seems OK.  Power supply is a switcher which I’ve used for some years.

3) K3S is drawing 21.96 amps key down.  (Not running 100 watts into the amp.)

4) I’ve intentionally “mis-tuned” the amp just in case that is what was going on when the OO noticed the chirp.  I did this by tuning up properly at 14.001 and then QSYing to 14.083 and transmitting while monitoring with a different receiver.  No chirp, clicks or other anomalies.  This is a much worse operating condition than I normally encounter.  It’s so easy to tune the ACOM that I keep it properly tweaked.  Also, I was operating in CW SS and in the middle of a 2 hour run when the OO heard me chirping and I have a tough time imagining that I’d sit on a given frequency for two hours without making sure I was properly tuned.

5) I do not use ALC between the K3S and the ACOM.  I do run with specific power levels on each band (great feature, BTW) such that I’m not able to overdrive the amp.

6) I’ve checked my in-the-shack coax jumper cables and I don’t see any issues.  The antenna end of the coax is currently under 2 feet of snow so I haven’t looked at it.  But, I’m getting normal SWR readings here in the shack.  There isn’t any arcing going on or the amp would shut down.  No RF in the shack; no TVI or other issues in the house.

7) I recently made 535 QSO’s in NAQP CW and did quite a bit of listening on a second receiver, never heard a chirp.  I wasn’t using the ACOM so I ran the K3S at 100 watts.  And, finally, I have not yet received another OO report after the NAQP.    ;-)

I dunno what to think.  The issue remains unresolved but I am unable to replicate the problem.

73,
Doug, W7KF
http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>



> On Jan 19, 2017, at 9:44 AM, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A few weeks ago, someone had received a chirp report.  Did that ever get
> resolved?
>
> Dick, n0ce
>
> --
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Re: K3: past chirp report

wayne burdick
Administrator
In reply to this post by Doug Smith [W7KF]
Under normal circumstances, it is impossible for a K3 or K3S for exhibit "chirp." The synthesizer settles well before the rig switches from TX to RX or vice-versa.

The KSYN3A (newer synth, used in the K3S) settles in well under 1 ms thanks to its entirely digital architecture (UHF DSPLL, divided down).

The KSYN3 (older synth, used on the K3) uses a more traditional PLL with its VCO running at the target output frequency. It normally settles in under 5 ms. It can take a bit longer depending on the actual PLL voltage and VCO frequency. This is accounted for in firmware.

If your KSYN3 were not properly calibrated, you might see a longer settling time on one or two bands, most likely 6 meters. If you suspect this, refer to the CONFIG:VCO MD menu entry. The K3 includes an automatic VCO calibration routine that requires no test equipment and takes only a couple of minutes to run.

Wayne
N6KR



On Jan 19, 2017, at 12:57 PM, "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In a synthesized VFO rig like the K3S, any tendency to "chirp" is almost always related to the synthesizer momentarily losing frequency (or phase) lock.
>
> While that could conceivably be linked to change in the power bus voltage, it's highly unlikely since the bus is isolated from the actual synthesizer by voltage regulators and filters.
>
> OTOH, the OO's report was strictly advisory. I have experienced spurious OO reports over my >50 years of pounding brass, and one that turned out to be accurate when I blew the filter caps in the transmitter and did not notice, nor did the stations I was working report the hum on my signal. When I got a "chirp" report one time (on a homebrew rig) and was unable to hear it myself, I sent a friendly letter to the OO. He replied that he was "almost sure" he could detect a "slight chirp" so he sent the card.
>
> So my advice is that if you can't repeat what the OO observed, don't worry about it.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Doug Smith
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 11:09 AM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: past chirp report
>
> Yup, that was me.
>
> There were some good suggestions made here and I’ve checked them all and I’m unable to get the K3S to chirp.  So, at present: unable to replicate..
>
> Some of the suggested things I’ve checked:
>
> 1) SWR at the K3S while driving the ACOM 1500 (same operating conditions) is 1.05 to 1.  SWR between the ACOM and the antenna at the noted frequency is 1.2 to 1.
>
> 2) Voltage at the K3S is 13.8 key up and 13.2 key down; seems OK.  Power supply is a switcher which I’ve used for some years.
>
> 3) K3S is drawing 21.96 amps key down.  (Not running 100 watts into the amp.)
>
> 4) I’ve intentionally “mis-tuned” the amp just in case that is what was going on when the OO noticed the chirp.  I did this by tuning up properly at 14.001 and then QSYing to 14.083 and transmitting while monitoring with a different receiver.  No chirp, clicks or other anomalies.  This is a much worse operating condition than I normally encounter.  It’s so easy to tune the ACOM that I keep it properly tweaked.  Also, I was operating in CW SS and in the middle of a 2 hour run when the OO heard me chirping and I have a tough time imagining that I’d sit on a given frequency for two hours without making sure I was properly tuned.
>
> 5) I do not use ALC between the K3S and the ACOM.  I do run with specific power levels on each band (great feature, BTW) such that I’m not able to overdrive the amp.
>
> 6) I’ve checked my in-the-shack coax jumper cables and I don’t see any issues.  The antenna end of the coax is currently under 2 feet of snow so I haven’t looked at it.  But, I’m getting normal SWR readings here in the shack.  There isn’t any arcing going on or the amp would shut down.  No RF in the shack; no TVI or other issues in the house.
>
> 7) I recently made 535 QSO’s in NAQP CW and did quite a bit of listening on a second receiver, never heard a chirp.  I wasn’t using the ACOM so I ran the K3S at 100 watts.  And, finally, I have not yet received another OO report after the NAQP.    ;-)
>
> I dunno what to think.  The issue remains unresolved but I am unable to replicate the problem.
>
> 73,
> Doug, W7KF
> http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>
>
>
>
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 9:44 AM, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> A few weeks ago, someone had received a chirp report.  Did that ever
>> get resolved?
>>
>> Dick, n0ce
>>
>> --
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Re: K3: past chirp report

Guy Olinger K2AV
In reply to this post by Doug Smith [W7KF]
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Doug Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 2) Voltage at the K3S is 13.8 key up and 13.2 key down; seems OK.  Power supply is a switcher which I’ve used for some years.
>
> 3) K3S is drawing 21.96 amps key down.  (Not running 100 watts into the amp.)

2) that's too much of a drop. Running 40 watts out to drive my Alpha
8410, the voltage is 14.1 key up and 13.9 key down reading from the
transceiver display. 3) 40 watt current draw is 10.8 amps.

You should run your power supply at 14.2 volts out, use a short cord to the K3S.

73, Guy K2AV
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Re: K3: past chirp report

wayne burdick
Administrator
This is not a factor in synthesizer switching. Both the old and new synths incorporate their own voltage regulators, preserve identical signal integrity down to a power supply voltage of around 9 VDC. That's about as low as the radio can go in any case.

Wayne
N6KR


On Jan 19, 2017, at 2:11 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Doug Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 2) Voltage at the K3S is 13.8 key up and 13.2 key down; seems OK.  Power supply is a switcher which I’ve used for some years.
>>
>> 3) K3S is drawing 21.96 amps key down.  (Not running 100 watts into the amp.)
>
> 2) that's too much of a drop. Running 40 watts out to drive my Alpha
> 8410, the voltage is 14.1 key up and 13.9 key down reading from the
> transceiver display. 3) 40 watt current draw is 10.8 amps.
>
> You should run your power supply at 14.2 volts out, use a short cord to the K3S.
>
> 73, Guy K2AV
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Re: K3: past chirp report

Nr4c
In reply to this post by Doug Smith [W7KF]
On this subject. I did notice a "chirping" signal during the NAQP last Sat. No idea of call, should have made a note I guess. Second time in a week I heard this on the air.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Jan 19, 2017, at 2:09 PM, Doug Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Yup, that was me.
>
> There were some good suggestions made here and I’ve checked them all and I’m unable to get the K3S to chirp.  So, at present: unable to replicate..
>
> Some of the suggested things I’ve checked:
>
> 1) SWR at the K3S while driving the ACOM 1500 (same operating conditions) is 1.05 to 1.  SWR between the ACOM and the antenna at the noted frequency is 1.2 to 1.
>
> 2) Voltage at the K3S is 13.8 key up and 13.2 key down; seems OK.  Power supply is a switcher which I’ve used for some years.
>
> 3) K3S is drawing 21.96 amps key down.  (Not running 100 watts into the amp.)
>
> 4) I’ve intentionally “mis-tuned” the amp just in case that is what was going on when the OO noticed the chirp.  I did this by tuning up properly at 14.001 and then QSYing to 14.083 and transmitting while monitoring with a different receiver.  No chirp, clicks or other anomalies.  This is a much worse operating condition than I normally encounter.  It’s so easy to tune the ACOM that I keep it properly tweaked.  Also, I was operating in CW SS and in the middle of a 2 hour run when the OO heard me chirping and I have a tough time imagining that I’d sit on a given frequency for two hours without making sure I was properly tuned.
>
> 5) I do not use ALC between the K3S and the ACOM.  I do run with specific power levels on each band (great feature, BTW) such that I’m not able to overdrive the amp.
>
> 6) I’ve checked my in-the-shack coax jumper cables and I don’t see any issues.  The antenna end of the coax is currently under 2 feet of snow so I haven’t looked at it.  But, I’m getting normal SWR readings here in the shack.  There isn’t any arcing going on or the amp would shut down.  No RF in the shack; no TVI or other issues in the house.
>
> 7) I recently made 535 QSO’s in NAQP CW and did quite a bit of listening on a second receiver, never heard a chirp.  I wasn’t using the ACOM so I ran the K3S at 100 watts.  And, finally, I have not yet received another OO report after the NAQP.    ;-)
>
> I dunno what to think.  The issue remains unresolved but I am unable to replicate the problem.
>
> 73,
> Doug, W7KF
> http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>
>
>
>
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 9:44 AM, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> A few weeks ago, someone had

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Re: K3: past chirp report

Barry
Does the radio automatically go into chirp mode if it detects operation from Cuba?
Barry W2UP
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Re: K3: past chirp report

Charlie T, K3ICH
No, only when you're sending Novice call.

Charlie k3ICH (ex KN3ICH)

I was so proud of that call, I bought a little call letter pin and wore it
in high school.
A non-techno buddy called me "Kenthrich". HI

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barry
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 8:10 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: past chirp report

Does the radio automatically go into chirp mode if it detects operation from
Cuba?
Barry W2UP



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html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: K3: past chirp report

riese-k3djc
In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld-2

for all you churp cops,,, tune around during th antique radio contest,,
no rig circuit
made after 1929 is used,,,, i use a hartley  osc which can cherp out of
the k3 pasband
if i pushit over 3 watts to the antenna,,, it begains to sound real good

Bob
 K3DJC

http://www.antiquewireless.org/awa-on-the-air.html




On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 06:10:19 -0700 (MST) Barry <[hidden email]> writes:

> Does the radio automatically go into chirp mode if it detects
> operation from
> Cuba?
> Barry W2UP
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
>
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-past-chirp-report-tp7625892p76259
20.html

> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

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Re: K3: past chirp report

Richard Fjeld-2
In reply to this post by Doug Smith [W7KF]
Doug,

Thanks for the info.  I've been curious as to what it could have been.  
Guess we will never know.

Dick,  n0ce


On 1/19/2017 1:09 PM, Doug Smith wrote:

> Yup, that was me.
>
> There were some good suggestions made here and I’ve checked them all and I’m unable to get the K3S to chirp.  So, at present: unable to replicate..
>
> Some of the suggested things I’ve checked:
>
> 1) SWR at the K3S while driving the ACOM 1500 (same operating conditions) is 1.05 to 1.  SWR between the ACOM and the antenna at the noted frequency is 1.2 to 1.
>
> 2) Voltage at the K3S is 13.8 key up and 13.2 key down; seems OK.  Power supply is a switcher which I’ve used for some years.
>
> 3) K3S is drawing 21.96 amps key down.  (Not running 100 watts into the amp.)
>
> 4) I’ve intentionally “mis-tuned” the amp just in case that is what was going on when the OO noticed the chirp.  I did this by tuning up properly at 14.001 and then QSYing to 14.083 and transmitting while monitoring with a different receiver.  No chirp, clicks or other anomalies.  This is a much worse operating condition than I normally encounter.  It’s so easy to tune the ACOM that I keep it properly tweaked.  Also, I was operating in CW SS and in the middle of a 2 hour run when the OO heard me chirping and I have a tough time imagining that I’d sit on a given frequency for two hours without making sure I was properly tuned.
>
> 5) I do not use ALC between the K3S and the ACOM.  I do run with specific power levels on each band (great feature, BTW) such that I’m not able to overdrive the amp.
>
> 6) I’ve checked my in-the-shack coax jumper cables and I don’t see any issues.  The antenna end of the coax is currently under 2 feet of snow so I haven’t looked at it.  But, I’m getting normal SWR readings here in the shack.  There isn’t any arcing going on or the amp would shut down.  No RF in the shack; no TVI or other issues in the house.
>
> 7) I recently made 535 QSO’s in NAQP CW and did quite a bit of listening on a second receiver, never heard a chirp.  I wasn’t using the ACOM so I ran the K3S at 100 watts.  And, finally, I have not yet received another OO report after the NAQP.    ;-)
>
> I dunno what to think.  The issue remains unresolved but I am unable to replicate the problem.
>
> 73,
> Doug, W7KF
> http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>
>
>
>
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 9:44 AM, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> A few weeks ago, someone had received a chirp report.  Did that ever get
>> resolved?
>>
>> Dick, n0ce
>>
>> --
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--

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Re: K3: past chirp report

Richard Fjeld-2
In reply to this post by Barry
My first commercially made transmitter/receiver was crude. The Tx
drifted so badly, that during my first novice qso,
the other station said he chased me through three other qso's. I don't
think 'three' was an exaggeration.
I made a crystal calibrator to help me check the receiver's dial
accuracy, and keep me within my allocation.
I didn't know what the cw sounded like, but no pink tickets.  We've come
a long way.

Dick, n0ce


On 1/20/2017 12:01 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> There was a time, decades ago, when we could identify specific CW stations
> without waiting for call signs by the sound of their signal - bit of chirp
> (or yoop), touch of hum and, of course, by their fist on the straight key or
> bug.
>
> Today we can fit a few more signals into the same band with absolutely clean
> rigs and keyers that make all signals sound the same - especially as more
> stations shift to keyboard CW that even removes slight differences in
> inter-character and inter-word spacing.
>
> Even so, it was nice tuning across the band and being able to say with
> confidence, "That's Al in San Diego" or "Ernie in Detroit" or "Arnie in
> Havana".
>
> Immediately we knew a lot about band conditions too without beacons and
> other "modern" aids.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
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Re: K3: past chirp report

WW3S
Xtal controlled could still drift, especially if the rig wasn't warmed up yet….. I got my novice in 1972 and I think that was the first year we could use vfos…..






Sent from my Windows tablet





From: Ron D'Eau Claire
Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎January‎ ‎20‎, ‎2017 ‎11‎:‎25‎ ‎PM
To: 'Richard Fjeld', [hidden email]





Wow! When was that? When I was a Novice my rig was, by law, crystal
controlled.

73, Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Richard Fjeld
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 8:18 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: past chirp report

My first commercially made transmitter/receiver was crude. The Tx drifted so
badly, that during my first novice qso, the other station said he chased me
through three other qso's. I don't think 'three' was an exaggeration.
I made a crystal calibrator to help me check the receiver's dial accuracy,
and keep me within my allocation.
I didn't know what the cw sounded like, but no pink tickets.  We've come a
long way.

Dick, n0ce


On 1/20/2017 12:01 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> There was a time, decades ago, when we could identify specific CW
> stations without waiting for call signs by the sound of their signal -
> bit of chirp (or yoop), touch of hum and, of course, by their fist on
> the straight key or bug.
>
> Today we can fit a few more signals into the same band with absolutely
> clean rigs and keyers that make all signals sound the same -
> especially as more stations shift to keyboard CW that even removes
> slight differences in inter-character and inter-word spacing.
>
> Even so, it was nice tuning across the band and being able to say with
> confidence, "That's Al in San Diego" or "Ernie in Detroit" or "Arnie
> in Havana".
>
> Immediately we knew a lot about band conditions too without beacons
> and other "modern" aids.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
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Re: K3: past chirp report

Richard Fjeld-2
In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld-2
I stand corrected on it being a novice qso.   It was the first qso with
that rig,
and very disappointing.  No eham reviews in those days.

Thanks,
Dick, n0ce


On 1/20/2017 10:25 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> Wow! When was that? When I was a Novice my rig was, by law, crystal
> controlled.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>

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Re: K3: past chirp report

markmusick
In reply to this post by WW3S
Ron,
Don't forget about grinding the crystal down a little using Comet or Ajax on a piece of glass.
I had crystals I moved using both methods, pencil and grinding. One to move down in frequency the other to move up in frequency.

Mark, WB9CIF

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 4:30 PM
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: past chirp report

A crystal oscillator might "drift" a few tens of Hz at H.F. on its fundamental frequency but in all the dozens of xtal controlled transmitters I've built and used over the years, nothing greater than that.

There were some circuits designed to "pull" the frequency of a crystal slightly - maybe a few kHz - but they did tend to be unstable. Pulled too far, the crystal oscillator would stop being controlled by the crystal at all and simply become a free-running oscillator.

Many novices used "surplus" crystals from military gear and it was common to find several stations on the same frequency when the band was open. So we tinkered with ways to move the crystal frequency slightly by rubbing solder or pencil 'lead' (graphite) on it but one could only go so far or the crystal would stop oscillating.

73, Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 3:13 AM
To: Ron D'Eau Claire; 'Richard Fjeld'; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: past chirp report

Xtal controlled could still drift, especially if the rig wasn't warmed up yet….. I got my novice in 1972 and I think that was the first year we could use vfos…..


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Re: K3: past chirp report

Bill K9YEQ
In reply to this post by WW3S
Ron, I used a wet stone that was flat and with spit.  Lots of work to get to the desired frequency.  We had a bunch of surplus Army surplus frequency oscillators that provided us with XTALs most were out of band so it was a chore, but cheap, to move the frequency.
73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----


A crystal oscillator might "drift" a few tens of Hz at H.F. on its fundamental frequency but in all the dozens of xtal controlled transmitters I've built and used over the years, nothing greater than that.

There were some circuits designed to "pull" the frequency of a crystal slightly - maybe a few kHz - but they did tend to be unstable. Pulled too far, the crystal oscillator would stop being controlled by the crystal at all and simply become a free-running oscillator.

Many novices used "surplus" crystals from military gear and it was common to find several stations on the same frequency when the band was open. So we tinkered with ways to move the crystal frequency slightly by rubbing solder or pencil 'lead' (graphite) on it but one could only go so far or the crystal would stop oscillating.

73, Ron AC7AC

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Re: K3: past chirp report

Alan Bloom
In reply to this post by markmusick
Yes I had a half dozen surplus crystals at the bottom of the 40 meter
novice band.  I ground them using toothpaste on a plate of glass to move
them up in frequency.  If you went too far, you could add some pencil
lead to move them back down.  But you had to do it carefully or the
crystal would fail to oscillate.

Alan N1AL

On 01/21/2017 08:59 AM, Mark E. Musick wrote:

> Ron, Don't forget about grinding the crystal down a little using
> Comet or Ajax on a piece of glass. I had crystals I moved using both
> methods, pencil and grinding. One to move down in frequency the other
> to move up in frequency.
>
> Mark, WB9CIF
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Elecraft
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau
> Claire Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 4:30 PM To:
> [hidden email]; [hidden email] Subject: Re:
> [Elecraft] K3: past chirp report
...
>
> Many novices used "surplus" crystals from military gear and it was
> common to find several stations on the same frequency when the band
> was open. So we tinkered with ways to move the crystal frequency
> slightly by rubbing solder or pencil 'lead' (graphite) on it but one
> could only go so far or the crystal would stop oscillating.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
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Re: K3: past chirp report

Matt Zilmer-3
In reply to this post by Bill K9YEQ
I remember one of those watering hole crystals was 7.040 MHz....  I
still have mine, an FT243 type.  It came from a box of dozens at the
same freq.  Worked fine on 21.120.

Several of us local hams (Glendale, CA., early 70s) used the same method
of graphite on the side to slidea couiple kHz.  Right away after, the
FCC lifted the ban on VFOs.  :)

73,

matt W6NIA


On 1/21/2017 11:09 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

> Ron, I used a wet stone that was flat and with spit.  Lots of work to get to the desired frequency.  We had a bunch of surplus Army surplus frequency oscillators that provided us with XTALs most were out of band so it was a chore, but cheap, to move the frequency.
> 73,
> Bill
> K9YEQ
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> A crystal oscillator might "drift" a few tens of Hz at H.F. on its fundamental frequency but in all the dozens of xtal controlled transmitters I've built and used over the years, nothing greater than that.
>
> There were some circuits designed to "pull" the frequency of a crystal slightly - maybe a few kHz - but they did tend to be unstable. Pulled too far, the crystal oscillator would stop being controlled by the crystal at all and simply become a free-running oscillator.
>
> Many novices used "surplus" crystals from military gear and it was common to find several stations on the same frequency when the band was open. So we tinkered with ways to move the crystal frequency slightly by rubbing solder or pencil 'lead' (graphite) on it but one could only go so far or the crystal would stop oscillating.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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--
Always store beer in a dark place.  - R. Heinlein

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
[Shiraz]

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