K3S SSB TX monitor

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K3S SSB TX monitor

Richard Lamont
It would be useful when operating SSB to be able to hear my own voice in
the headphones, but not on the speaker, where it can cause feedback.

Is there any way of configuring the rig so that when using a voice mode
with a microphone, the TX monitor feeds the headphones but not the
speaker(s)?

73,
Richard G4DYA

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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor

Don Wilhelm
Richard,

Certainly, turn the MON to zero - either manually or with a Macro.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/6/2017 2:30 PM, Richard Lamont wrote:

> Is there any way of configuring the rig so that when using a voice mode
> with a microphone, the TX monitor feeds the headphones but not the
> speaker(s)?
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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Richard Lamont
Hi Richard,

There's a menu setting for SPKR + PHONES (from memory, I think that's
what it's called) that toggles the speaker on and off. I assign that
function to one of the soft buttons. Works great!

73, Jim K9YC

On Thu,4/6/2017 11:30 AM, Richard Lamont wrote:

> It would be useful when operating SSB to be able to hear my own voice in
> the headphones, but not on the speaker, where it can cause feedback.
>
> Is there any way of configuring the rig so that when using a voice mode
> with a microphone, the TX monitor feeds the headphones but not the
> speaker(s)?
>
> 73,
> Richard G4DYA
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor

Richard Lamont
In reply to this post by Richard Lamont
My previous post might not have made it clear what I'm trying to achieve
with the K3S.

For RX audio, I usually listen on speakers. These mute when I plug the
headphones in. That's standard and obvious and just what I want.

When I'm using a voice mode with a microphone, I need the TX monitor
audio to appear in the headphones and NOT the speakers.

I need this to happen automatically, every time I plug in or unplug the
headphones, without having to do anything else.

Is there any way of configuring the rig to do precisely this?

73,
Richard G4DYA




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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor

Jim Brown-10
On Thu,4/6/2017 1:53 PM, Richard Lamont wrote:
> Is there any way of configuring the rig to do precisely this?

Yes. It's easy. In a post a few hours ago, I described the process. And
it's in the manual. See the large tabulated description of Menu Settings.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor

Barry Simpson
In reply to this post by Richard Lamont
Richard

I do not believe that the K3 can do what you want. The monitor is either on
or off independently of whether you are listening through the speaker or
headphones.

If you mainly listen through the speaker, just turn the monitor to zero and
them turn it up when you wear headphones.

I think that is the only way.

73

Barry  VK2BJ

On 7 April 2017 at 06:53, Richard Lamont <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My previous post might not have made it clear what I'm trying to achieve
> with the K3S.
>
> For RX audio, I usually listen on speakers. These mute when I plug the
> headphones in. That's standard and obvious and just what I want.
>
> When I'm using a voice mode with a microphone, I need the TX monitor
> audio to appear in the headphones and NOT the speakers.
>
> I need this to happen automatically, every time I plug in or unplug the
> headphones, without having to do anything else.
>
> Is there any way of configuring the rig to do precisely this?
>
> 73,
> Richard G4DYA
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor

Richard Lamont
Barry,

Thank you. You've confirmed what I suspected: that the desired
functionality doesn't exist.

To prevent monitor audio from the microphone from reaching the speaker,
while keeping it going to the headphones, and to do this without
operator intervention, seems a simple enough requirement.

Having to fiddle with the monitor level after plugging or unplugging
headphones is a right pain. What I'm asking for seems such a no-brainer
I can't believe it isn't standard. Why on earth would anyone want their
live microphone audio routed to the speaker? It's a transceiver, not a
public address system.

73,
Richard G4DYA

On 06/04/17 22:30, Barry Simpson wrote:

> Richard
>
> I do not believe that the K3 can do what you want. The monitor is either
> on or off independently of whether you are listening through the speaker
> or headphones.
>
> If you mainly listen through the speaker, just turn the monitor to zero
> and them turn it up when you wear headphones.
>
> I think that is the only way.
>
> 73
>
> Barry  VK2BJ
>
> On 7 April 2017 at 06:53, Richard Lamont <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     My previous post might not have made it clear what I'm trying to achieve
>     with the K3S.
>
>     For RX audio, I usually listen on speakers. These mute when I plug the
>     headphones in. That's standard and obvious and just what I want.
>
>     When I'm using a voice mode with a microphone, I need the TX monitor
>     audio to appear in the headphones and NOT the speakers.
>
>     I need this to happen automatically, every time I plug in or unplug the
>     headphones, without having to do anything else.
>
>     Is there any way of configuring the rig to do precisely this?
>
>     73,
>     Richard G4DYA
>
>
>
>
>     ______________________________________________________________
>     Elecraft mailing list
>     Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
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>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
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>
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>     Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>     Message delivered to [hidden email]
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>


--
Richard Lamont
<[hidden email]>
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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor

Bill Frantz
You can write a macro to control the monitor level. Use the ML command.

ML (Monitor Level; GET/SET)

SET/RSP format: MLxxx; where xxx is 000-060. Applies to current
mode (CW sidetone, voice, or data). In voice modes, applies to
MON level, even if DVR monitor level is independent (MAIN:TX DVR).

See:
<http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K3S&K3&KX3&KX2%20Pgmrs%20Ref,%20G1.pdf>
for details. Setting the level to zero is one of the examples.

On 4/6/17 at 3:08 PM, [hidden email] (Richard Lamont) wrote:

>Having to fiddle with the monitor level after plugging or unplugging
>headphones is a right pain.

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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor

Joe Subich, W4TV-4
In reply to this post by Richard Lamont

> To prevent monitor audio from the microphone from reaching the
> speaker, while keeping it going to the headphones, and to do this
> without operator intervention, seems a simple enough requirement.

If you do not want speaker audio when using headphones set
CONFIG:SPRK+PH = OFF *AS DOCUMENTED IN THE OWNERS MANUAL!*.

The K3 DSP has *one output* that feeds both the headphone amplifier
and the speaker amplifier.  There is no hardware to permit different
audio feeds to the headphone and speakers.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 4/6/2017 6:08 PM, Richard Lamont wrote:

> Barry,
>
> Thank you. You've confirmed what I suspected: that the desired
> functionality doesn't exist.
>
> To prevent monitor audio from the microphone from reaching the speaker,
> while keeping it going to the headphones, and to do this without
> operator intervention, seems a simple enough requirement.
>
> Having to fiddle with the monitor level after plugging or unplugging
> headphones is a right pain. What I'm asking for seems such a no-brainer
> I can't believe it isn't standard. Why on earth would anyone want their
> live microphone audio routed to the speaker? It's a transceiver, not a
> public address system.
>
> 73,
> Richard G4DYA
>
> On 06/04/17 22:30, Barry Simpson wrote:
>> Richard
>>
>> I do not believe that the K3 can do what you want. The monitor is either
>> on or off independently of whether you are listening through the speaker
>> or headphones.
>>
>> If you mainly listen through the speaker, just turn the monitor to zero
>> and them turn it up when you wear headphones.
>>
>> I think that is the only way.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Barry  VK2BJ
>>
>> On 7 April 2017 at 06:53, Richard Lamont <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>     My previous post might not have made it clear what I'm trying to achieve
>>     with the K3S.
>>
>>     For RX audio, I usually listen on speakers. These mute when I plug the
>>     headphones in. That's standard and obvious and just what I want.
>>
>>     When I'm using a voice mode with a microphone, I need the TX monitor
>>     audio to appear in the headphones and NOT the speakers.
>>
>>     I need this to happen automatically, every time I plug in or unplug the
>>     headphones, without having to do anything else.
>>
>>     Is there any way of configuring the rig to do precisely this?
>>
>>     73,
>>     Richard G4DYA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     ______________________________________________________________
>>     Elecraft mailing list
>>     Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
>>     Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>>     Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>
>>     This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>     Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>     Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor

Mike Harris-9
In reply to this post by Richard Lamont
The K3 is the only transceiver I've used with this facility. Monitor
level is saved per mode. I have SSB = 4, CW = 10 and Data = 5.
I never notice any monitor audio on SSB, neither do I particularly feel
the need and could just as well turn it off. Sidetone on telephones was
an attempt to stop folks shouting. Maybe a lack of it is why you can
hear the one sided conversations of folks talking on mobiles from across
the street.

For me CW monitor is for sidetone and Data monitor is just a gentle
background burble to indicate all seems to be working.

The house is pretty quiet and at nearly 69y my hearing is OK not having
been exposed regularly to damaging noise levels. I usually use CM500
phones anyway with CONFIG AF GAIN = LO and the AF gain pot seldom above
9 o'clock.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO



On 06/04/2017 19:08, Richard Lamont wrote:

> Barry,
>
> Thank you. You've confirmed what I suspected: that the desired
> functionality doesn't exist.
>
> To prevent monitor audio from the microphone from reaching the speaker,
> while keeping it going to the headphones, and to do this without
> operator intervention, seems a simple enough requirement.
>
> Having to fiddle with the monitor level after plugging or unplugging
> headphones is a right pain. What I'm asking for seems such a no-brainer
> I can't believe it isn't standard. Why on earth would anyone want their
> live microphone audio routed to the speaker? It's a transceiver, not a
> public address system.
>
> 73,
> Richard G4DYA
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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor

Bob Wilson, N6TV
In reply to this post by Richard Lamont
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Richard Lamont <[hidden email]> wrote:

> When I'm using a voice mode with a microphone, I need the TX monitor
> audio to appear in the headphones and NOT the speakers.
>
> I need this to happen automatically, every time I plug in or unplug the
> headphones, without having to do anything else.
>
> Is there any way of configuring the rig to do precisely this?
>

It's a reasonable feature request, though I'm not aware of any other rig
that automatically turns the mic. monitor ON when you plug in headphones,
and automatically turns the mic. monitor OFF when you unplug headphones and
listen on a speaker.  Of course this is something you only want to do on
phone.  When operating CW, and maybe digital, you always want the monitor
ON, even when using speakers.

I do not understand you want to listen to both headphones and speakers at
the same time, unless you have someone else in the shack who wants to hear
what's going on  with no risk of feedback from the speakers.

Set MIC MON level to 0.  Instead of listening on the headphone jack,
connect your headphones to the LINE OUT jack, through an external headphone
amplifier or the stereo LINE IN jack on a desktop PC sound card (and plug
your headphones into the PC or headphone amp.).  Note that MIC jacks on PCs
may use stereo plugs, but they are almost always MONO inputs that cannot
handle LINE level audio well.

For convenience, set CONFIG:LIN OUT to =PHONES by tapping [1].  This allows
the AF Gain knobs on the K3 to control the line out level.  If running K3
Beta firmware 5.58 or later, tap [2] to to set the "T=" (TX monitor) level
on the LINE OUT jack (this is a new feature).  This setting is independent
of the MON knob on the front.  Tap [2] again to return to the prior menu
state.

I don't have a radio in front of me, so I can't remember what happens in
the right audio channel when CONFIG:LIN OUT is set to =PHONES.  Normally
the right channel of LINE OUT is "dead" until you turn on the SubRx by
tapping SUB.

If you don't have the SubRx, all you have to do is listen to the left
channel audio in both ears.  You'll hear the mic. monitor in LINE OUT but
not the K3 speakers.

If you have the SubRx, you may have to use a switch to split your ears to
both LINE OUT left and right channels when SUB is enabled, and left channel
only in both ears when SUB is not enabled.  You could in theory use an
external relay triggered by the DIGOUT1 pin on the K3 accessory port and a
macro assign to a function key to automatically control the headphone
switching externally *and* toggle the SUB ON or OFF simultaneously, but I
don't know of anyone who has bothered to try this.

SubRx ON  & DIGOUT1 ON:   SB1;MN019;MP001;MN255;
SubRx OFF & DIGOUT1 OFF:  SB0:MN019;MP000;MN255;

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor - feature request

Richard Lamont
On 07/04/17 06:59, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Richard Lamont <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     When I'm using a voice mode with a microphone, I need the TX monitor
>     audio to appear in the headphones and NOT the speakers.
>
>     I need this to happen automatically, every time I plug in or unplug the
>     headphones, without having to do anything else.
>
>     Is there any way of configuring the rig to do precisely this?
>
> It's a reasonable feature request, though I'm not aware of any other rig
> that automatically turns the mic. monitor ON when you plug in
> headphones, and automatically turns the mic. monitor OFF when you unplug
> headphones and listen on a speaker.  Of course this is something you
> only want to do on phone.  When operating CW, and maybe digital, you
> always want the monitor ON, even when using speakers.

Agreed 100%.

When you plug headphones in, there's a delay of about a second before
the speakers mute. This strongly suggests that the muting is controlled
by software, not just by cutting the speaker analogue audio directly on
the back contacts of the headphone jack. So presumably the rig's
software 'knows' when headphones are plugged in.

> I do not understand you want to listen to both headphones and speakers
> at the same time, unless you have someone else in the shack who wants to
> hear what's going on  with no risk of feedback from the speakers.

I don't wish to listen simultaneously on both headphones and speakers.
That isn't the problem.

I'm just trying to keep the TX mon audio (from the mic) in the
headphones and out of the speakers, without having to use macros or
fiddling with controls. (All my macro buttons are used up, and if I
forgot to push the button I'd be either missing sidetone or getting
feedback next time I transmit. And fiddling with controls wastes time in
a contest or pileup.)

I use 'enclosing' headphones (Sennheiser HD25, Beyer DT100) that mean I
cannot hear my own voice well enough without some sidetone, and this
makes speech more difficult.

As there appears to be no way of doing this at the moment, I guess this
is a firmware feature request.

I'm not aware of any other rig that does what I'm asking for.
Historically, however, rigs had a single audio power amplifier and
relied on 'dumb' switching of the amplified audio using the back contact
on the headphone jack to mute the speaker. I'm inferring from the one
second delay mentioned above that the K3S hardware is capable of
supporting a smarter approach, even if firmware doesn't, yet.

73,
Richard G4DYA
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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor - feature request

Jim Brown-10
Richard,

Do you not read responses to your posts? Or do you reject anything that
contradicts what you seem to have made up your mind to believe? Several
of us have told you exactly how to accomplish what you want to do. I've
been doing it for almost as long as I've owned a K3 (2008 for the first
one).  NO changes are needed to the radio or the firmware. It's all
there. All you have to do is follow the advice you have been given. I
also suggest that you study the manual for the radio. It's all there.

73, Jim K9YC

On Fri,4/7/2017 1:03 AM, Richard Lamont wrote:
> As there appears to be no way of doing this at the moment, I guess this
> is a firmware feature request.


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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor - feature request

Bob Wilson, N6TV
In reply to this post by Richard Lamont
On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 1:03 AM, Richard Lamont <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm just trying to keep the TX mon audio (from the mic) in the
> headphones and out of the speakers, without having to use macros or
> fiddling with controls. (All my macro buttons are used up, and if I
> forgot to push the button I'd be either missing sidetone or getting
> feedback next time I transmit. And fiddling with controls wastes time in
> a contest or pileup.)
>

To repeat, try setting MON to 0, and connect headphones to the LIN OUT jack
(perhaps through a PC), and set CONFIG:LIN OUT to =Phones.  Tap [2] and set
the the LINE OUT MON level (T=) at the LIN OUT jack to a comfortable
level.  Then leave your headphones plugged in there.

Now there is no way that TX MON audio will get to the mic. via the
speakers, but you will hear plenty of monitor in the headphones (always).
To mute the speakers, plug something into the headphone jack (doesn't have
to be headphones).  To unmute, unplug.  Leave your headphones connected all
the time, to the LINE OUT jack.

If you want to operate CW with speakers (really?) you'l have to turn up the
monitor.  You won't have to fiddle with anything else unless you're trying
to use the SubRx.


> As there appears to be no way of doing this at the moment, I guess this is
> a firmware feature request.
>

It's not clear if the hardware is capable of routing the voice monitor to
the headphones without also routing it to the speaker.  You can set the
LINE OUT monitor level separately from the speaker / headphone monitor
level, which comes pretty close to what you need.  I guess what you're
asking for boils down to a request for three independent monitor level
settings:

1. Speakers
2. Headphones
3. Line out

And you also probably want different monitor level's to be remembered for
each mode.

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor - feature request

Phil Daniells, GJ4CBQ-2
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Jim,

It might be worth your while re-reading Richard's posts.

What he is asking for is the **automatic** toggling of the monitor
function on insertion and removal of the headphone plug, without the use
of a macro.

The CONFIG:SPRK+PH setting does not achieve this.  And yes, I've been
using the PF2 key in the manner you describe for some years now.

Bob's suggestion of using the line out sounds promising, but I think
Richard is looking for a solution that doesn't involve an external
headphone amplifier.

73,
Phil, GJ4CBQ.



On 07/04/2017 19:06, Jim Brown wrote:

> Richard,
>
> Do you not read responses to your posts? Or do you reject anything that
> contradicts what you seem to have made up your mind to believe? Several
> of us have told you exactly how to accomplish what you want to do. I've
> been doing it for almost as long as I've owned a K3 (2008 for the first
> one).  NO changes are needed to the radio or the firmware. It's all
> there. All you have to do is follow the advice you have been given. I
> also suggest that you study the manual for the radio. It's all there.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On Fri,4/7/2017 1:03 AM, Richard Lamont wrote:
>> As there appears to be no way of doing this at the moment, I guess this
>> is a firmware feature request.
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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor - feature request

Graham Kimbell
In reply to this post by Richard Lamont
I have spkrs and phones on all the time and with mon set to a low value
between 3 and 6, I can hear myself in the phones, but there's no
feedback from the speakers. Does this help?

Graham

On 07/04/2017 15:47, [hidden email] wrote:
>   When I'm using a voice mode with a microphone, I need the TX monitor
> >       audio to appear in the headphones and NOT the speakers.
> >  
> >       I need this to happen automatically, every time I plug in or unplug the
> >       headphones, without having to do anything else.
> >  
> >       Is there any way of configuring the rig to do precisely this?
>    
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K3 FW 5.58?

Ken K6MR
Trying to use the new AR command (switches the Rx ant on/off), but I see it was added in FW 5.58.  Latest versions I find (both beta and released locations) is 5.57.

Anyone know where it is?

Tnx,

Ken K6MR

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Re: K3 FW 5.58?

Don Wilhelm
Ken,

It is classified as "Field Test" right now.  If you want to try it,
email Wayne directly (as he requested).

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/7/2017 3:51 PM, Ken K6MR wrote:
> Trying to use the new AR command (switches the Rx ant on/off), but I see it was added in FW 5.58.  Latest versions I find (both beta and released locations) is 5.57.
>
> Anyone know where it is?
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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor - feature request

Joe Subich, W4TV-4
In reply to this post by Phil Daniells, GJ4CBQ-2

Phil,

*You* need to read the responses.  If Richard will *TURN OFF*
CONFIG:SPRK+PH, there will be no monitor feedback when using
the headphones.  Simple, effective, and completely documented
in the Owner's Manual (and has been since the very first K3).

Richard admits that he does not need the speakers when he is
using headphones/operating SSB.  There is no reason not to
simply mute the speakers when using phones.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 4/7/2017 3:19 PM, Phil, GJ4CBQ wrote:

> Jim,
>
> It might be worth your while re-reading Richard's posts.
>
> What he is asking for is the **automatic** toggling of the monitor
> function on insertion and removal of the headphone plug, without the use
> of a macro.
>
> The CONFIG:SPRK+PH setting does not achieve this.  And yes, I've been
> using the PF2 key in the manner you describe for some years now.
>
> Bob's suggestion of using the line out sounds promising, but I think
> Richard is looking for a solution that doesn't involve an external
> headphone amplifier.
>
> 73,
> Phil, GJ4CBQ.
>
>
>
> On 07/04/2017 19:06, Jim Brown wrote:
>> Richard,
>>
>> Do you not read responses to your posts? Or do you reject anything that
>> contradicts what you seem to have made up your mind to believe? Several
>> of us have told you exactly how to accomplish what you want to do. I've
>> been doing it for almost as long as I've owned a K3 (2008 for the first
>> one).  NO changes are needed to the radio or the firmware. It's all
>> there. All you have to do is follow the advice you have been given. I
>> also suggest that you study the manual for the radio. It's all there.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> On Fri,4/7/2017 1:03 AM, Richard Lamont wrote:
>>> As there appears to be no way of doing this at the moment, I guess this
>>> is a firmware feature request.
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>
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Re: K3S SSB TX monitor - feature request

Phil Daniells, GJ4CBQ-2
Fair comment, Joe.

My apologies.  Your original posting was spot-on.  I was distracted by
mention of button assignments and macros; as your solution implies, not
needed.

Interesting discussion, nonetheless.

73,
Phil.


On 07/04/2017 22:42, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> Phil,
>
> *You* need to read the responses.  If Richard will *TURN OFF*
> CONFIG:SPRK+PH, there will be no monitor feedback when using
> the headphones.  Simple, effective, and completely documented
> in the Owner's Manual (and has been since the very first K3).
>
> Richard admits that he does not need the speakers when he is
> using headphones/operating SSB.  There is no reason not to
> simply mute the speakers when using phones.
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV
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