K3S "HI-RFI" warning a bit too sensitive?

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K3S "HI-RFI" warning a bit too sensitive?

Chris L
I believe the manual states that it takes a watt or two of power at the
antenna connector to set off the HI-RFI warning. Imagine my surprise when I
began seeing the warning on my brand new K3S just days after I'd assembled
it. Almost everyone else who has seen this error has been using a K3 in a
contest environment with multiple transmitters, so I was particularly
stumped as there are no other transmitters in my shack (everything is
boxed) and no active hams in my neighborhood. I did some testing and traced
it to a signal coming in on my 6 meter antenna, which when I disconnected
it caused the HI-RFI warning to go away. Using a VHF capable SDR in
wideband mode, I found a strong FM signal on 49.850 and traced it to...

A baby monitor. Yep, not one block from my house lives a couple with a
cheap 49MHz baby monitor blasting away on 49.850MHz all hours of the day
and night. A short "fox hunt" with a service monitor confirmed this. There
is 100KHz worth of splatter coming from this thing and my old Icom 706
shows it as S9 with the attenuator on (and S9 +60 without). I spoke with
someone at the house and confirmed that this was the problem by shutting
down the device for an hour. Unfortunately, the couple's mother-in-law
lives with them and insists on using the baby monitor all day and night.

I will continue to press for a diplomatic solution (possibly offering to
buy them a newer 800/900MHz unit), but should I fail at that, is this
something I should worry about as far as damaging my K3S? I find it hard to
believe that a baby monitor is pumping out more than 1 watt, so I'm
inclined to believe that the K3S is being a bit overprotective. This plus
the fact that my 6 meter antenna is a PAR Omniangle which is
omnidirectional and according to PAR has no appreciable gain. I'm tempted
to program the K3S to ignore the HI-RFI warning for the time being.
Thoughts?

Chris
KB9SDX
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Re: K3S "HI-RFI" warning a bit too sensitive?

NK7Z
On Fri, 2016-06-17 at 06:30 -0500, Chris L wrote:

> A baby monitor. Yep, not one block from my house lives a couple with a
> cheap 49MHz baby monitor blasting away on 49.850MHz all hours of the
> day and night. A short "fox hunt" with a service monitor confirmed
> this.  There is 100KHz worth of splatter coming from this thing and my
> old Icom 706 shows it as S9 with the attenuator on (and S9 +60
> without). I spoke with someone at the house and confirmed that this
> was the problem by shutting down the device for an hour.
> Unfortunately, the couple's mother-in-law lives with them and insists
> on using the baby monitor all day and night.
> Chris
> KB9SDX

Chris,
Make sure they know that the baby monitor is transmitting every word
they say, (assuming it does).  That will more than likely change their
minds.
-- 

73's, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
For software/hardware reviews see:
http://www.nk7z.net
--

73's, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
For software/hardware reviews see:
http://www.nk7z.net

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Re: K3S "HI-RFI" warning a bit too sensitive?

daleputnam
In reply to this post by Chris L
I certainly hope they NEVER speak their credit card numbers.. their plans for the weekend, vacation, trips away from the house, bank accounts, security questions, or pretty much anything else. In today's world with so much concern about identity theft, credit card information... listening in, like they are providing, would provide enough information to very easily swipe an ID or two.. or three.. apply for credit cards, buy a car, or almost anything else. Wow... the possibilities are endless, and 99% are not good at all.

  Aside from the simple fact that it is a transmitter, and causes an issue.

Good luck getting them to shut it off...

IF it is a "security thing" for an elderly.. maybe the explanation of Life Line.. or some similar monitoring system would help... or the purchase of a pair of family service walky talkies, from the box stores, for less than 40 would work better.. that would certainly give the coverage, and only transmit when needed.


Have a great day,
--... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy



________________________________
From: Elecraft <[hidden email]> on behalf of Chris L <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 5:30 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3S "HI-RFI" warning a bit too sensitive?

I believe the manual states that it takes a watt or two of power at the
antenna connector to set off the HI-RFI warning. Imagine my surprise when I
began seeing the warning on my brand new K3S just days after I'd assembled
it. Almost everyone else who has seen this error has been using a K3 in a
contest environment with multiple transmitters, so I was particularly
stumped as there are no other transmitters in my shack (everything is
boxed) and no active hams in my neighborhood. I did some testing and traced
it to a signal coming in on my 6 meter antenna, which when I disconnected
it caused the HI-RFI warning to go away. Using a VHF capable SDR in
wideband mode, I found a strong FM signal on 49.850 and traced it to...

A baby monitor. Yep, not one block from my house lives a couple with a
cheap 49MHz baby monitor blasting away on 49.850MHz all hours of the day
and night. A short "fox hunt" with a service monitor confirmed this. There
is 100KHz worth of splatter coming from this thing and my old Icom 706
shows it as S9 with the attenuator on (and S9 +60 without). I spoke with
someone at the house and confirmed that this was the problem by shutting
down the device for an hour. Unfortunately, the couple's mother-in-law
lives with them and insists on using the baby monitor all day and night.

I will continue to press for a diplomatic solution (possibly offering to
buy them a newer 800/900MHz unit), but should I fail at that, is this
something I should worry about as far as damaging my K3S? I find it hard to
believe that a baby monitor is pumping out more than 1 watt, so I'm
inclined to believe that the K3S is being a bit overprotective. This plus
the fact that my 6 meter antenna is a PAR Omniangle which is
omnidirectional and according to PAR has no appreciable gain. I'm tempted
to program the K3S to ignore the HI-RFI warning for the time being.
Thoughts?

Chris
KB9SDX
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Re: K3S "HI-RFI" warning a bit too sensitive?

Ken G Kopp
In reply to this post by Chris L
Perhaps a coax stub cut for the 49 MHZ frequency and "T'd" off the
connector used by your 6M antenna could provide enough attenuation to
alleviate the problem.

73

K0PP
I believe the manual states that it takes a watt or two of power at the
antenna connector to set off the HI-RFI warning. Imagine my surprise when I
began seeing the warning on my brand new K3S just days after I'd assembled
it. Almost everyone else who has seen this error has been using a K3 in a
contest environment with multiple transmitters, so I was particularly
stumped as there are no other transmitters in my shack (everything is
boxed) and no active hams in my neighborhood. I did some testing and traced
it to a signal coming in on my 6 meter antenna, which when I disconnected
it caused the HI-RFI warning to go away. Using a VHF capable SDR in
wideband mode, I found a strong FM signal on 49.850 and traced it to...

A baby monitor. Yep, not one block from my house lives a couple with a
cheap 49MHz baby monitor blasting away on 49.850MHz all hours of the day
and night. A short "fox hunt" with a service monitor confirmed this. There
is 100KHz worth of splatter coming from this thing and my old Icom 706
shows it as S9 with the attenuator on (and S9 +60 without). I spoke with
someone at the house and confirmed that this was the problem by shutting
down the device for an hour. Unfortunately, the couple's mother-in-law
lives with them and insists on using the baby monitor all day and night.

I will continue to press for a diplomatic solution (possibly offering to
buy them a newer 800/900MHz unit), but should I fail at that, is this
something I should worry about as far as damaging my K3S? I find it hard to
believe that a baby monitor is pumping out more than 1 watt, so I'm
inclined to believe that the K3S is being a bit overprotective. This plus
the fact that my 6 meter antenna is a PAR Omniangle which is
omnidirectional and according to PAR has no appreciable gain. I'm tempted
to program the K3S to ignore the HI-RFI warning for the time being.
Thoughts?

Chris
KB9SDX
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Re: K3S "HI-RFI" warning a bit too sensitive?

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

> Using a VHF capable SDR in wideband mode, I found a strong FM signal
> on 49.850 and traced it to...

The SDR should be capable of providing a calibrated (dBm) signal
strength.  With that information and the distance from the target
it should be relatively simple to calculate the ERP of the baby
monitor.

Given that you report the "HI-RFI" indicator is being activated on the
K3S, I would suspect the baby monitor is producing an illegal ERP -
whether it is out of spec accidentally (manufacturing) or has been
tampered with by the owner is not an issue.  I would generate a letter
of complaint to the FCC (with calculated ERP data) indicating that you
believe the baby monitor is not in compliance with regulations and must
cease.  Send a copy to the owners of the baby monitor a week before
mailing the complaint to the Commission.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV



> I believe the manual states that it takes a watt or two of power at the
> antenna connector to set off the HI-RFI warning. Imagine my surprise when I
> began seeing the warning on my brand new K3S just days after I'd assembled
> it. Almost everyone else who has seen this error has been using a K3 in a
> contest environment with multiple transmitters, so I was particularly
> stumped as there are no other transmitters in my shack (everything is
> boxed) and no active hams in my neighborhood. I did some testing and traced
> it to a signal coming in on my 6 meter antenna, which when I disconnected
> it caused the HI-RFI warning to go away. Using a VHF capable SDR in
> wideband mode, I found a strong FM signal on 49.850 and traced it to...
>
> A baby monitor. Yep, not one block from my house lives a couple with a
> cheap 49MHz baby monitor blasting away on 49.850MHz all hours of the day
> and night. A short "fox hunt" with a service monitor confirmed this. There
> is 100KHz worth of splatter coming from this thing and my old Icom 706
> shows it as S9 with the attenuator on (and S9 +60 without). I spoke with
> someone at the house and confirmed that this was the problem by shutting
> down the device for an hour. Unfortunately, the couple's mother-in-law
> lives with them and insists on using the baby monitor all day and night.
>
> I will continue to press for a diplomatic solution (possibly offering to
> buy them a newer 800/900MHz unit), but should I fail at that, is this
> something I should worry about as far as damaging my K3S? I find it hard to
> believe that a baby monitor is pumping out more than 1 watt, so I'm
> inclined to believe that the K3S is being a bit overprotective. This plus
> the fact that my 6 meter antenna is a PAR Omniangle which is
> omnidirectional and according to PAR has no appreciable gain. I'm tempted
> to program the K3S to ignore the HI-RFI warning for the time being.
> Thoughts?
>
> Chris
> KB9SDX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: K3S "HI-RFI" warning a bit too sensitive?

Michael Walker
I had this problem once.  Next time I showed up with a recording of
everything they said over dinner and told them I recordered it over a block
away.

That got it fixed.

In another case, with 49Mhz headphones, I just bought them a new 900mhz
pair and gave it to them if they gave me their old ones.  Sometimes it is
just cheaper.

Mike va3mw

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Using a VHF capable SDR in wideband mode, I found a strong FM signal
>> on 49.850 and traced it to...
>>
>
> The SDR should be capable of providing a calibrated (dBm) signal
> strength.  With that information and the distance from the target
> it should be relatively simple to calculate the ERP of the baby
> monitor.
>
> Given that you report the "HI-RFI" indicator is being activated on the
> K3S, I would suspect the baby monitor is producing an illegal ERP -
> whether it is out of spec accidentally (manufacturing) or has been
> tampered with by the owner is not an issue.  I would generate a letter
> of complaint to the FCC (with calculated ERP data) indicating that you
> believe the baby monitor is not in compliance with regulations and must
> cease.  Send a copy to the owners of the baby monitor a week before
> mailing the complaint to the Commission.
>
> 73,
>
>   ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
>
> I believe the manual states that it takes a watt or two of power at the
>> antenna connector to set off the HI-RFI warning. Imagine my surprise when
>> I
>> began seeing the warning on my brand new K3S just days after I'd assembled
>> it. Almost everyone else who has seen this error has been using a K3 in a
>> contest environment with multiple transmitters, so I was particularly
>> stumped as there are no other transmitters in my shack (everything is
>> boxed) and no active hams in my neighborhood. I did some testing and
>> traced
>> it to a signal coming in on my 6 meter antenna, which when I disconnected
>> it caused the HI-RFI warning to go away. Using a VHF capable SDR in
>> wideband mode, I found a strong FM signal on 49.850 and traced it to...
>>
>> A baby monitor. Yep, not one block from my house lives a couple with a
>> cheap 49MHz baby monitor blasting away on 49.850MHz all hours of the day
>> and night. A short "fox hunt" with a service monitor confirmed this. There
>> is 100KHz worth of splatter coming from this thing and my old Icom 706
>> shows it as S9 with the attenuator on (and S9 +60 without). I spoke with
>> someone at the house and confirmed that this was the problem by shutting
>> down the device for an hour. Unfortunately, the couple's mother-in-law
>> lives with them and insists on using the baby monitor all day and night.
>>
>> I will continue to press for a diplomatic solution (possibly offering to
>> buy them a newer 800/900MHz unit), but should I fail at that, is this
>> something I should worry about as far as damaging my K3S? I find it hard
>> to
>> believe that a baby monitor is pumping out more than 1 watt, so I'm
>> inclined to believe that the K3S is being a bit overprotective. This plus
>> the fact that my 6 meter antenna is a PAR Omniangle which is
>> omnidirectional and according to PAR has no appreciable gain. I'm tempted
>> to program the K3S to ignore the HI-RFI warning for the time being.
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Chris
>> KB9SDX
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Re: K3S "HI-RFI" warning a bit too sensitive?

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Ken G Kopp
On Fri,6/17/2016 8:00 AM, Ken G Kopp wrote:
> Perhaps a coax stub cut for the 49 MHZ frequency and "T'd" off the
> connector used by your 6M antenna could provide enough attenuation to
> alleviate the problem.

Stubs are not nearly narrow enough to solve this problem. The unit in
question is in clear violation of FCC Rules if it interferes with
licensed communications, including yours. If it's putting out that much
signal, it's clearly in excess of FCC Rules, probably wildly so.

A year or two ago, I bought a low power FM TX on amazon that I hoped to
use to feed an internet radio RX around my rural home and yard. I
quickly rejected it -- it produced a ton of RF trash up and down the
band and lots of audible distortion on its TX frequency. As I recall, it
was advertised as 1W, and I had a 20 dB pad on the antenna. For at least
five years, I've used a legal "trucker's" FM modulator that is in the
10mW range; my goal was to get about 6dB more field strength, and a
cleaner signal.

W4TV has given you good advice on the route through the FCC, but buying
them a decent unit may be the more practical solution.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: K3S "HI-RFI" warning a bit too sensitive?

Helmut Berka - DL2MAJ
In reply to this post by Chris L
Hi Chris,

Did you tell her / them how dangerous high power RF is and how negative
it affects a baby?


vy 73 de

Helmut DL2MAJ



Am 17/06/16 um 13:30 schrieb Chris L:

> I believe the manual states that it takes a watt or two of power at the
> antenna connector to set off the HI-RFI warning. Imagine my surprise when I
> began seeing the warning on my brand new K3S just days after I'd assembled
> it. Almost everyone else who has seen this error has been using a K3 in a
> contest environment with multiple transmitters, so I was particularly
> stumped as there are no other transmitters in my shack (everything is
> boxed) and no active hams in my neighborhood. I did some testing and traced
> it to a signal coming in on my 6 meter antenna, which when I disconnected
> it caused the HI-RFI warning to go away. Using a VHF capable SDR in
> wideband mode, I found a strong FM signal on 49.850 and traced it to...
>
> A baby monitor. Yep, not one block from my house lives a couple with a
> cheap 49MHz baby monitor blasting away on 49.850MHz all hours of the day
> and night. A short "fox hunt" with a service monitor confirmed this. There
> is 100KHz worth of splatter coming from this thing and my old Icom 706
> shows it as S9 with the attenuator on (and S9 +60 without). I spoke with
> someone at the house and confirmed that this was the problem by shutting
> down the device for an hour. Unfortunately, the couple's mother-in-law
> lives with them and insists on using the baby monitor all day and night.
>
> I will continue to press for a diplomatic solution (possibly offering to
> buy them a newer 800/900MHz unit), but should I fail at that, is this
> something I should worry about as far as damaging my K3S? I find it hard to
> believe that a baby monitor is pumping out more than 1 watt, so I'm
> inclined to believe that the K3S is being a bit overprotective. This plus
> the fact that my 6 meter antenna is a PAR Omniangle which is
> omnidirectional and according to PAR has no appreciable gain. I'm tempted
> to program the K3S to ignore the HI-RFI warning for the time being.
> Thoughts?
>
> Chris
> KB9SDX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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