KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

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KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

ANDY DURBIN
Can someone please point me to a definition or specification for the KPA500 - K3 AUX Bus.   I have the KPA500 Programmer's Reference but this appears to only cover the KPA500 - PC interface.


Thanks and 73,

Andy k3wyc
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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

ke9uw
Page 25 of the KPA500 manual.
http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740150%20KPA500%20Owner's%20man%20%20Rev%20D4.pdf

Chuck Hawley
 [hidden email]

 Amateur Radio, KE9UW
 aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles
________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of ANDY DURBIN [[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 3:59 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

Can someone please point me to a definition or specification for the KPA500 - K3 AUX Bus.   I have the KPA500 Programmer's Reference but this appears to only cover the KPA500 - PC interface.


Thanks and 73,

Andy k3wyc
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Chuck, KE9UW
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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

Don Wilhelm
The AUXBUS protocol is Elecraft proprietary and is not published.
It is the single wire communications between the K3 and its options,
both internal and external.

The K3 Programmers Reference and KPA500 Programmers Reference gives you
commands that can be issued from a PC or other connected computer -
those commands are quite extensive and can give you complete control
from a PC.

73,
Don W3FPR


> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of ANDY DURBIN [[hidden email]]
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 3:59 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
>
> Can someone please point me to a definition or specification for the KPA500 - K3 AUX Bus.   I have the KPA500 Programmer's Reference but this appears to only cover the KPA500 - PC interface.
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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

Ken K6MR
In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN
Proprietary.  I’ve decoded a couple of messages, but AFAIK there is no publication.



Ken K6MR



________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of ANDY DURBIN <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 1:59:47 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

Can someone please point me to a definition or specification for the KPA500 - K3 AUX Bus.   I have the KPA500 Programmer's Reference but this appears to only cover the KPA500 - PC interface.


Thanks and 73,

Andy k3wyc
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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

ANDY DURBIN
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
Don,


Thanks for the reply.


I'm familiar with the PC interface and have, in the hope of tracking down a problem, built a logger that uses that bus to interrogate the KPA500 at 10 Hz.  I was hoping the AUX bus would give a faster detection of a spurious band change than my 10 Hz interrogation ^bn;.   I'll look at the bus with my DSO but I have already been given information than suggests its data rate will be too low to be useful.


I may have to resort to instrumenting the shift register signals from the front panel to the LPF but I was hoping to avoid that.


73,

Andy




________________________________
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 2:45 PM
To: ANDY DURBIN; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

The AUXBUS protocol is Elecraft proprietary and is not published.
It is the single wire communications between the K3 and its options,
both internal and external.

The K3 Programmers Reference and KPA500 Programmers Reference gives you
commands that can be issued from a PC or other connected computer -
those commands are quite extensive and can give you complete control
from a PC.

73,
Don W3FPR


> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of ANDY DURBIN [[hidden email]]
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 3:59 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
>
> Can someone please point me to a definition or specification for the KPA500 - K3 AUX Bus.   I have the KPA500 Programmer's Reference but this appears to only cover the KPA500 - PC interface.
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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

Don Wilhelm
Andy,

While you seem capable of reverse engineering the AUXBUS, it is fraught
with danger if you get it wrong.
You are "own your own" in this matter.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/29/2018 7:37 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

>
> Don,
>
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
>
> I'm familiar with the PC interface and have, in the hope of tracking
> down a problem, built a logger that uses that bus to interrogate the
> KPA500 at 10 Hz.  I was hoping the AUX bus would give a faster
> detection of a spurious band change than my 10 Hz interrogation ^bn;. 
>  I'll look at the bus with my DSO but I have already been given
> information than suggests its data rate will be too low to be useful.
>
>
> I may have to resort to instrumenting the shift register signals from
> the front panel to the LPF but I was hoping to avoid that.
>
>
> 73,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 29, 2018 2:45 PM
> *To:* ANDY DURBIN; [hidden email]
> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
> The AUXBUS protocol is Elecraft proprietary and is not published.
> It is the single wire communications between the K3 and its options,
> both internal and external.
>
> The K3 Programmers Reference and KPA500 Programmers Reference gives you
> commands that can be issued from a PC or other connected computer -
> those commands are quite extensive and can give you complete control
> from a PC.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> > From: [hidden email]
> [[hidden email]] on behalf of ANDY DURBIN
> [[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 3:59 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
> >
> > Can someone please point me to a definition or specification for the
> KPA500 - K3 AUX Bus.   I have the KPA500 Programmer's Reference but
> this appears to only cover the KPA500 - PC interface.

______________________________________________________________
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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

ANDY DURBIN
"fraught with danger"?


It's hard for me to imagine how monitoring an "output only" bus with a DSO could be "fraught with danger".   There would be nothing connected to the AUX bus except the DSO and a pull up resistor.   About the only way I can see to cause any damage is to exceed Io max of the 2N7002K.


What risks have I overlooked?  I don't want to void the warranty while there are still unresolved issues with my KPA500.


73,

Andy k3wyc


________________________________
From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 5:42 PM
To: ANDY DURBIN; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

Andy,

While you seem capable of reverse engineering the AUXBUS, it is fraught
with danger if you get it wrong.
You are "own your own" in this matter.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/29/2018 7:37 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

>
> Don,
>
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
>
> I'm familiar with the PC interface and have, in the hope of tracking
> down a problem, built a logger that uses that bus to interrogate the
> KPA500 at 10 Hz.  I was hoping the AUX bus would give a faster
> detection of a spurious band change than my 10 Hz interrogation ^bn;.
>  I'll look at the bus with my DSO but I have already been given
> information than suggests its data rate will be too low to be useful.
>
>
> I may have to resort to instrumenting the shift register signals from
> the front panel to the LPF but I was hoping to avoid that.
>
>
> 73,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 29, 2018 2:45 PM
> *To:* ANDY DURBIN; [hidden email]
> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
> The AUXBUS protocol is Elecraft proprietary and is not published.
> It is the single wire communications between the K3 and its options,
> both internal and external.
>
> The K3 Programmers Reference and KPA500 Programmers Reference gives you
> commands that can be issued from a PC or other connected computer -
> those commands are quite extensive and can give you complete control
> from a PC.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> > From: [hidden email]
> [[hidden email]] on behalf of ANDY DURBIN
> [[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 3:59 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
> >
> > Can someone please point me to a definition or specification for the
> KPA500 - K3 AUX Bus.   I have the KPA500 Programmer's Reference but
> this appears to only cover the KPA500 - PC interface.

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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

wayne burdick
Administrator
I designed the auxBus hardware interface and protocol. I’d be happy to answer any historical, philosophical, or metaphysical questions about it off-list.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

---
http://www.elecraft.com

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 6:47 PM, ANDY DURBIN <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> "fraught with danger"?
>
>
> It's hard for me to imagine how monitoring an "output only" bus with a DSO could be "fraught with danger".   There would be nothing connected to the AUX bus except the DSO and a pull up resistor.   About the only way I can see to cause any damage is to exceed Io max of the 2N7002K.
>
>
> What risks have I overlooked?  I don't want to void the warranty while there are still unresolved issues with my KPA500.
>
>
> 73,
>
> Andy k3wyc
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 5:42 PM
> To: ANDY DURBIN; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
>
> Andy,
>
> While you seem capable of reverse engineering the AUXBUS, it is fraught
> with danger if you get it wrong.
> You are "own your own" in this matter.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 4/29/2018 7:37 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:
>>
>> Don,
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.
>>
>>
>> I'm familiar with the PC interface and have, in the hope of tracking
>> down a problem, built a logger that uses that bus to interrogate the
>> KPA500 at 10 Hz.  I was hoping the AUX bus would give a faster
>> detection of a spurious band change than my 10 Hz interrogation ^bn;.
>> I'll look at the bus with my DSO but I have already been given
>> information than suggests its data rate will be too low to be useful.
>>
>>
>> I may have to resort to instrumenting the shift register signals from
>> the front panel to the LPF but I was hoping to avoid that.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 29, 2018 2:45 PM
>> *To:* ANDY DURBIN; [hidden email]
>> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
>> The AUXBUS protocol is Elecraft proprietary and is not published.
>> It is the single wire communications between the K3 and its options,
>> both internal and external.
>>
>> The K3 Programmers Reference and KPA500 Programmers Reference gives you
>> commands that can be issued from a PC or other connected computer -
>> those commands are quite extensive and can give you complete control
>> from a PC.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>
>>> From: [hidden email]
>> [[hidden email]] on behalf of ANDY DURBIN
>> [[hidden email]]
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 3:59 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
>>>
>>> Can someone please point me to a definition or specification for the
>> KPA500 - K3 AUX Bus.   I have the KPA500 Programmer's Reference but
>> this appears to only cover the KPA500 - PC interface.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

Jack Brindle-2
In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN
Andy;

You are using the KPA500 with a non-Elecraft radio. The Auxbus has no traffic - it is _only_ used to communicate to the K3, and is only used when the K3 is set in the KPA500 preferences.

I will communicate further with you shortly with more information to help clear some of your misunderstanding of the KPA500.

73,

Jack, W6FB



> On Apr 29, 2018, at 6:47 PM, ANDY DURBIN <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> "fraught with danger"?
>
>
> It's hard for me to imagine how monitoring an "output only" bus with a DSO could be "fraught with danger".   There would be nothing connected to the AUX bus except the DSO and a pull up resistor.   About the only way I can see to cause any damage is to exceed Io max of the 2N7002K.
>
>
> What risks have I overlooked?  I don't want to void the warranty while there are still unresolved issues with my KPA500.
>
>
> 73,
>
> Andy k3wyc
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 5:42 PM
> To: ANDY DURBIN; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
>
> Andy,
>
> While you seem capable of reverse engineering the AUXBUS, it is fraught
> with danger if you get it wrong.
> You are "own your own" in this matter.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 4/29/2018 7:37 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:
>>
>> Don,
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.
>>
>>
>> I'm familiar with the PC interface and have, in the hope of tracking
>> down a problem, built a logger that uses that bus to interrogate the
>> KPA500 at 10 Hz.  I was hoping the AUX bus would give a faster
>> detection of a spurious band change than my 10 Hz interrogation ^bn;.
>> I'll look at the bus with my DSO but I have already been given
>> information than suggests its data rate will be too low to be useful.
>>
>>
>> I may have to resort to instrumenting the shift register signals from
>> the front panel to the LPF but I was hoping to avoid that.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 29, 2018 2:45 PM
>> *To:* ANDY DURBIN; [hidden email]
>> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
>> The AUXBUS protocol is Elecraft proprietary and is not published.
>> It is the single wire communications between the K3 and its options,
>> both internal and external.
>>
>> The K3 Programmers Reference and KPA500 Programmers Reference gives you
>> commands that can be issued from a PC or other connected computer -
>> those commands are quite extensive and can give you complete control
>> from a PC.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>
>>> From: [hidden email]
>> [[hidden email]] on behalf of ANDY DURBIN
>> [[hidden email]]
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 3:59 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
>>>
>>> Can someone please point me to a definition or specification for the
>> KPA500 - K3 AUX Bus.   I have the KPA500 Programmer's Reference but
>> this appears to only cover the KPA500 - PC interface.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

Matthew Cook
In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN
Andy,

You'll find the band outputs on the KPA500 aux connector (BAND0-3) are
quite reliable and fast when it comes to detecting band change outputs.
They appear to be flipped/set quite early in the band change
sequence/exchange between the K3 and amp, certainly before RF is applied
(yay !).   At least I've not caught my K3/KPA500(s) doing anything silly in
this regard yet.

My only gripe with the BAND outputs is that 60m was encoded as 0000 and not
1111 on this 4-bit interface, which means telling the difference between
the amp being physically OFF and/or on 60m requires a separate monitoring
circuit...  >:|

73

Matthew
VK5ZM

On 30 April 2018 at 09:07, ANDY DURBIN <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don,
>
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
>
> I'm familiar with the PC interface and have, in the hope of tracking down
> a problem, built a logger that uses that bus to interrogate the KPA500 at
> 10 Hz.  I was hoping the AUX bus would give a faster detection of a
> spurious band change than my 10 Hz interrogation ^bn;.   I'll look at the
> bus with my DSO but I have already been given information than suggests its
> data rate will be too low to be useful.
>
>
> I may have to resort to instrumenting the shift register signals from the
> front panel to the LPF but I was hoping to avoid that.
>
>
> 73,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 2:45 PM
> To: ANDY DURBIN; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
>
> The AUXBUS protocol is Elecraft proprietary and is not published.
> It is the single wire communications between the K3 and its options,
> both internal and external.
>
> The K3 Programmers Reference and KPA500 Programmers Reference gives you
> commands that can be issued from a PC or other connected computer -
> those commands are quite extensive and can give you complete control
> from a PC.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> > From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]]
> on behalf of ANDY DURBIN [[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 3:59 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification
> >
> > Can someone please point me to a definition or specification for the
> KPA500 - K3 AUX Bus.   I have the KPA500 Programmer's Reference but this
> appears to only cover the KPA500 - PC interface.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
On 4/29/2018 2:45 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> The AUXBUS protocol is Elecraft proprietary and is not published.
> It is the single wire communications between the K3 and its options,
> both internal and external.

It DOES seem reasonable to publish at least an electrical transmission
spec for it -- i.e., voltages, source and load impedances, whether it is
intended to be terminated (impedance matched) or un-terminated, distance
limits for various cable parameters. In fact, it seems unreasonable to
NOT put it in the manual RS232, for example, is runs UN-terminated, and
the limit on distance is the capacitance of the cable, not it's physical
length. Many years ago, the RS232 spec was note that capacitance was the
limitation.

The way to think about this is that UN-terminated circuits are analyzed
as "lumped parameter" systems, where bandwidth limits boil down to
degradation of rise time by RC time constants. The source Z is low, the
receiving Z is high. TERMINATED systems function as transmission lines,
and everything we know about traansmission lines applies.

I'm using only the AUX Bus for communication between K3 and KRC2, using
a short length of mini Belden 75 ohm coax. If I were, for example,
remoting a KPA500 or KPA1500, it  would be nice to run only coax (or a
single pair out of CAT5) for that bus, which requires that you know the
electrical limits of the circuit.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by wayne burdick
On 4/29/2018 8:27 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> philosophical, or metaphysical questions

How appropriate on a Sunday night!

73, Jim

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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

David Woolley (E.L)
In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN
You would need to sign a non-disclosure agreement for anything beyond
the logic level (TTL) and pinout information.  I've never heard of one
being given out for this purpose.

--
David Woolley
Owner K2 06123

On 29/04/18 21:59, ANDY DURBIN wrote:
> Can someone please point me to a definition or specification for the KPA500 - K3 AUX Bus.   I have the KPA500 Programmer's Reference but this appears to only cover the KPA500 - PC interface.
>
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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

Bill Frantz
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
I agree with Jim here. I am thinking of getting a KPA1500 to
replace my Expert 1.3K. (I got the 1.3K after my wife won a
$1000 off prize at the Top Band Dinner. I thought the 1.3K would
have good resale value given its use on DXpeditions.)

The logical place for the amp is in my garage, near the antennas
feed points and near an electrical subpanel with 60A 240V
service. Installing the 240 outlet in the garage is probably a
DIY project.

I do want the tight integration of the amp with the K3, so an
AUX bus connection is required.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/30/18 at 12:22 AM, [hidden email] (Jim Brown) wrote:

>It DOES seem reasonable to publish at least an electrical
>transmission spec for it -- i.e., voltages, source and load
>impedances, whether it is intended to be terminated (impedance
>matched) or un-terminated, distance limits for various cable
>parameters. In fact, it seems unreasonable to NOT put it in the
>manual ...

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Re: KPA500/K3 AUX bus specification

Bob Wilson, N6TV
Bill,

The Y-BOX v2.1 and single $20 25ft M/F "HD15" cable could let you remote
the KPA1500 or KPA500 to the garage quite nicely, including remote power
power on/off via a K3 macro.  I haven't tested a cable that long, but know
of no reason that it won't work as long as the voltage drop isn't
significant.   Maybe a pair of these high quality cables in series would
work too (50 ft)?

See:

http://www.kkn.net/~n6tv/Y-BOX/Features.html#Remote

and

http://www.cablesondemand.com/category/HD15/product/CS-DSDHD15MF0/URvars/Items/Library/InfoManage/CS-DSDHD15MF0.htm

73,
Bob, N6TV
https://bit.ly/Y-BOX

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 6:29 AM Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree with Jim here. I am thinking of getting a KPA1500 to
> replace my Expert 1.3K. (I got the 1.3K after my wife won a
> $1000 off prize at the Top Band Dinner. I thought the 1.3K would
> have good resale value given its use on DXpeditions.)
>
> The logical place for the amp is in my garage, near the antennas
> feed points and near an electrical subpanel with 60A 240V
> service. Installing the 240 outlet in the garage is probably a
> DIY project.
>
> I do want the tight integration of the amp with the K3, so an
> AUX bus connection is required.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
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