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KX3 - Pandapter woes

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KX3 - Pandapter woes

Buck - k4ia
I am having a devil of a time with my KX3 and NaP3 running through an
EM0202 outboard soundcard.  It works great with my K3 to an LpPan
pandapter.

With the KX3, I get a big blip in the middle and mirror images on either
side that move along with the tuning.  I have tried reversing the I/Q.
This is telling me there is something wrong with the cables but I have
switched them out, including the 2.5>3.5 adapter to no avail.  Now, I am
suspecting the I/Q jack on the KX3 but that seem unlikely.

Anyone have an idea for me to try?

--
Buck
k4ia
K3 # 101  KX3 #715
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Re: KX3 - Pandapter woes

Lyle Johnson
Buck,

Time to isolate.

Connect up the KX3 2.5 mm jack to the EMU-0202 as normal.

Instead of running NaP3, run an application that lets you see or hear
each channel of the EMU-0202. Maybe one of the apps that was bundled
with the EMU, or maybe one of the many sound editor programs.  Maybe
NaP3 lets you do this, I don't know.  The whole idea is to see which
channel of the EMU is getting audio fromthe KX3.

Now, swap the cables at the EMU-0202.  Since this uses a pair of 6.5 mm
mono jacks, they are easy to swap.  See if the prtoblem moves to the
other channel.  If so, verify the cable with an ohmmeter -- the problem
is the cable or the KX3.  If not, the problem is the EMU-0202.

Finally, if it is the cable or the KX3, do the usual jiggling of the
cable, etc. to see if it is just poor contact or ?

Hope this helps, sorry for the problem you are having.

73,

Lyle KK7P

> I am having a devil of a time with my KX3 and NaP3 running through an
> EM0202 outboard soundcard.  It works great with my K3 to an LpPan
> pandapter.
>
> With the KX3, I get a big blip in the middle and mirror images on either
> side that move along with the tuning.  I have tried reversing the I/Q.
> This is telling me there is something wrong with the cables but I have
> switched them out, including the 2.5>3.5 adapter to no avail.  Now, I am
> suspecting the I/Q jack on the KX3 but that seem unlikely.
>
> Anyone have an idea for me to try?
>

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Re: KX3 - Pandapter woes

Ignacy
In reply to this post by Buck - k4ia
I got the same results initially with a laptop using HDSDR. Turned out it had a mono input. A bit better picture with a default sound card on desktop. Then ran sound card calibration in HDSDR to decrease image and the center has disappeared.

Now HDSDR works very well; adding frequency display by OmniRig is simple. The effective range is 45KHz. Not sure this is limit of my sound card or IQ in KX3.

No complains as free I/Q in KX3 is icing on the cake.

Ignacy
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Re: KX3 - Pandapter woes

Stephen G4SJP
Both of the 3.5 to 2.5mm pigtail adapters I bought from Amazon were not
wired correctly, with no connection at all to the ring (if I remember
correctly).  Cheap doesn't always pay in my Experience!

73 Stephen G4SJP


On Saturday, 18 August 2012, Ignacy wrote:

> I got the same results initially with a laptop using HDSDR. Turned out it
> had
> a mono input. A bit better picture with a default sound card on desktop.
> Then ran sound card calibration in HDSDR to decrease image and the center
> has disappeared.
>
> Now HDSDR works very well; adding frequency display by OmniRig is simple.
> The effective range is 45KHz. Not sure this is limit of my sound card or IQ
> in KX3.
>
> No complains as free I/Q in KX3 is icing on the cake.
>
> Ignacy
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KX3-Pandapter-woes-tp7561244p7561249.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>


--
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Re: KX3 - Pandapter woes

MontyS
In reply to this post by Lyle Johnson
I had identical problem.  I was, however, trying to use a 4-conductor plug
instead of a 3-conductor plug for the 2.5mm ->3.5mm adapter.  The tip did
not make contact, giving the symptoms you describe.  It should have worked
but didn't.  Changing to a 3-conductor plug, all is well.

Monty K2DLJ



Buck,

Time to isolate.

Connect up the KX3 2.5 mm jack to the EMU-0202 as normal.

Instead of running NaP3, run an application that lets you see or hear
each channel of the EMU-0202. Maybe one of the apps that was bundled
with the EMU, or maybe one of the many sound editor programs.  Maybe
NaP3 lets you do this, I don't know.  The whole idea is to see which
channel of the EMU is getting audio fromthe KX3.

Now, swap the cables at the EMU-0202.  Since this uses a pair of 6.5 mm
mono jacks, they are easy to swap.  See if the prtoblem moves to the
other channel.  If so, verify the cable with an ohmmeter -- the problem
is the cable or the KX3.  If not, the problem is the EMU-0202.

Finally, if it is the cable or the KX3, do the usual jiggling of the
cable, etc. to see if it is just poor contact or ?

Hope this helps, sorry for the problem you are having.

73,

Lyle KK7P

> I am having a devil of a time with my KX3 and NaP3 running through an
> EM0202 outboard soundcard.  It works great with my K3 to an LpPan
> pandapter.
>
> With the KX3, I get a big blip in the middle and mirror images on either
> side that move along with the tuning.  I have tried reversing the I/Q.
> This is telling me there is something wrong with the cables but I have
> switched them out, including the 2.5>3.5 adapter to no avail.  Now, I am
> suspecting the I/Q jack on the KX3 but that seem unlikely.
>
> Anyone have an idea for me to try?
>

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Re: KX3 - Pandapter woes

Barry K3NDM
In reply to this post by Buck - k4ia
I use the EMU-0202 with Windows 7. It works here. You need to get the
driver that allows it to play with Win7, but it should work fine. You
may be having a problem with the timing between the KX3 an NaP3; I did,
and I had to play with the rig timing parameters under set up. But, it
works.

I also pipe NaP3 out to FLDIGI using VAC V4.12. It's really an awesome
operation once you get it together.

73,
Barry
K3NDM




On 8/17/2012 11:04 PM, Buck k4ia wrote:

> I am having a devil of a time with my KX3 and NaP3 running through an
> EM0202 outboard soundcard.  It works great with my K3 to an LpPan
> pandapter.
>
> With the KX3, I get a big blip in the middle and mirror images on either
> side that move along with the tuning.  I have tried reversing the I/Q.
> This is telling me there is something wrong with the cables but I have
> switched them out, including the 2.5>3.5 adapter to no avail.  Now, I am
> suspecting the I/Q jack on the KX3 but that seem unlikely.
>
> Anyone have an idea for me to try?
>

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Re: KX3 - Pandapter woes

Buck - k4ia
In reply to this post by Stephen G4SJP
Yes, indeed.  One of the Chinese pig-tail adapters was shorting the two
signals.

I changed adapters and gave the program some time to run and cancel out
images and it works much better now.  I still have some recurring spurs
that run up and down the band chasing the center frequency so there's
work remaining to be done.

Buck
k4ia
K3 # 101  KX3 #715

On 8/18/2012 6:39 AM, Stephen Prior wrote:

> Both of the 3.5 to 2.5mm pigtail adapters I bought from Amazon were not
> wired correctly, with no connection at all to the ring (if I remember
> correctly).  Cheap doesn't always pay in my Experience!
>
> 73 Stephen G4SJP
>
>
> On Saturday, 18 August 2012, Ignacy wrote:
>
>> I got the same results initially with a laptop using HDSDR. Turned out it
>> had
>> a mono input. A bit better picture with a default sound card on desktop.
>> Then ran sound card calibration in HDSDR to decrease image and the center
>> has disappeared.
>>
>> Now HDSDR works very well; adding frequency display by OmniRig is simple.
>> The effective range is 45KHz. Not sure this is limit of my sound card or IQ
>> in KX3.
>>
>> No complains as free I/Q in KX3 is icing on the cake.
>>
>> Ignacy
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KX3-Pandapter-woes-tp7561244p7561249.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
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KX3 - Initial I/Q Output Parametric Measurements

Scott Prather-2
In reply to this post by Ignacy
In the last two days we've seen a number of questions raised regarding the
KX3's I/Q output and its frequency response characteristics. In an effort to
provide some information that others may find helpful, this evening I made
several measurements of my KX3's I/Q output (early 700 S/N) using my H/P
89441 Vector Signal Analyzer operating in the baseband mode.

For my initial tests, an H/P 8640B signal generator provided a CW signal at
-70 dBm on 14.100 MHz. The KX3's preamplifier was switched off and the radio
was tuned to zero-beat. When tuned to zero beat in the CW mode, the carrier
appears at an offset equal to the sidetone frequency (700 Hz in my KX3). The
power of the baseband CW tone was measured at 700 Hz with the receiver at
zero-beat, then the receiver was tuned to move the received carrier to
baseband frequencies of 2000 Hz, 9000 Hz, 25 kHz and 48 kHz. The measurement
results are shown below:

For -70 dBm CW @ 14.1 MHz:

Baseband Freq. I Power Q Power
2000 Hz -76.0 dBm -76.2 dBm
9000 Hz -76.2 dBm -76.2 dBm
25 kHz -76.5 dBm -76.7 dBm
48 kHz -78.5 dBm -78.3 dBm

For signals within about 10 kHz of the carrier frequency, the KX3 displays a
signal gain to the I/Q port of very close to -6 dB when the preamplifier is
disabled. The power balance between the I and Q port is within 0.2 dB at all
tested frequencies.

Next, instead of a CW tone I injected wideband Gaussian noise from a GR 1383
Noise Generator. The noise power at 14 MHz was set to -90 dBm/Hz. With this
input stimulus, the measured noise power on the I or the Q port was -94
dBm/Hz, and the noise displays a 2.5 dB slope from 700 Hz to 50 kHz, just as
noted above when CW was the input stimulus.

I will spend time looking at some of the other baseband aspects of the KX3's
I/Q output as time allows later this week.

73,

Scott
N7NB



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Re: KX3 - Initial I/Q Output Parametric Measurements

MontyS
I hooked up my KX3s IQ port  to an EMU0202 sound card and used NaP3 to
display the spectrum.

With no preamp, the display floor is fairly flat, as Scott found. With
preamp, the floor is humped in the middle, as apparently the bandwidth of
the preamp rolls off smoothly at frequencies further removed from the tuned
frequency.

In any event the display is useful for finding signals +/- 96khz from center
frequency.  A signal blip can be clicked to tune the KX3.

A small IF offset is required to make the displayed spectrum agree with the
KX3's dial.  I have not determined yet what value of offset is best.

Monty K2DLJ

In the last two days we've seen a number of questions raised regarding the
KX3's I/Q output and its frequency response characteristics. In an effort to
provide some information that others may find helpful, this evening I made
several measurements of my KX3's I/Q output (early 700 S/N) using my H/P
89441 Vector Signal Analyzer operating in the baseband mode.

For my initial tests, an H/P 8640B signal generator provided a CW signal at
-70 dBm on 14.100 MHz. The KX3's preamplifier was switched off and the radio
was tuned to zero-beat. When tuned to zero beat in the CW mode, the carrier
appears at an offset equal to the sidetone frequency (700 Hz in my KX3). The
power of the baseband CW tone was measured at 700 Hz with the receiver at
zero-beat, then the receiver was tuned to move the received carrier to
baseband frequencies of 2000 Hz, 9000 Hz, 25 kHz and 48 kHz. The measurement
results are shown below:

For -70 dBm CW @ 14.1 MHz:

Baseband Freq. I Power Q Power
2000 Hz -76.0 dBm -76.2 dBm
9000 Hz -76.2 dBm -76.2 dBm
25 kHz -76.5 dBm -76.7 dBm
48 kHz -78.5 dBm -78.3 dBm

For signals within about 10 kHz of the carrier frequency, the KX3 displays a
signal gain to the I/Q port of very close to -6 dB when the preamplifier is
disabled. The power balance between the I and Q port is within 0.2 dB at all
tested frequencies.

Next, instead of a CW tone I injected wideband Gaussian noise from a GR 1383
Noise Generator. The noise power at 14 MHz was set to -90 dBm/Hz. With this
input stimulus, the measured noise power on the I or the Q port was -94
dBm/Hz, and the noise displays a 2.5 dB slope from 700 Hz to 50 kHz, just as
noted above when CW was the input stimulus.

I will spend time looking at some of the other baseband aspects of the KX3's
I/Q output as time allows later this week.

73,

Scott
N7NB



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Re: KX3 - Pandapter woes

k7nhb
In reply to this post by Buck - k4ia
I'm trying to use HDSDR - but may switch to NaP3. I have the same display problem you describe. OmniRig seems to control the rig okay and clicking on a frequency in the HDSDR display change rig. But i have a big spike and two lessor traces on each side - no matter what band I am on.

I am plugging the Elecraft RX I/Q (from Elecraft) cable into a Griffin audio device that takes mic and audio in and has USB out. The Griffin has a slide with Mic and Line positions and I understand that Line gives stereo out.

You were talking about NaP3 but as I have the same kind of display on HDSDR I'm guessing it is the same problem and hopefully will have the same solution.

My cable are from Elecraft. I could use an outboard SignaLink or external Sound blaster card. But the more (bulky) things I have to "add-in" the less portable my portable setup is becoming. The Griffin device is the size of a dollar - back when there were dollar coins - so it would be great if it could be used.

73,
Paul
K7NHB
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