KX3 and FLDIGI

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KX3 and FLDIGI

Kevin - K4VD
When using the KX3 with fldigi can I use the RX I/Q output from the radio
to the computer? I can't find any reference to i/q in the fldigi docs so
I'm assuming the answer is no but thought I'd ask before giving up.

Kev K4VD
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Re: KX3 and FLDIGI

John Pitz

I have been and it seems to work just fine.  I have made contacts using
that setup with PSK31 and have decoded PSK31, RTTY, as well as one other
mode-can't remember which at the moment.  I have also been told rather
emphatically that fldigi would not work with the IQ signal.  My
experience is it works just fine.  The width of the spectrum is quite a
bit less than what I think a full panadaptor would give.



On Fri, 2016-12-02 at 14:43 -0500, Kevin - K4VD wrote:

> When using the KX3 with fldigi can I use the RX I/Q output from the radio
> to the computer? I can't find any reference to i/q in the fldigi docs so
> I'm assuming the answer is no but thought I'd ask before giving up.
>
> Kev K4VD
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Re: KX3 and FLDIGI

Don Wilhelm
In reply to this post by Kevin - K4VD
Kev,

I tried that very early on and found that the signal amplitude was
really not adequate for my tastes - but it did work.
So I guess it all depends on your soundcard and its gain.

Fldigi and other similar applications only use the left channel.  A
panadapter application will use both.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/2/2016 2:43 PM, Kevin - K4VD wrote:
> When using the KX3 with fldigi can I use the RX I/Q output from the radio
> to the computer? I can't find any reference to i/q in the fldigi docs so
> I'm assuming the answer is no but thought I'd ask before giving up.
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Re: KX3 and FLDIGI

Jim Brown-10
On Fri,12/2/2016 12:15 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Fldigi and other similar applications only use the left channel.

Yes. MMTTY can be set to decode L or R, but only transmits Mono. 2Tone
(an excellent RTTY program) can easily be set to RX and TX on L or R.
WSJT-X can easily select L and R for both TX and RX, but WSJT10 is left
channel only. Development of WSJT has shifted to WSJT-X, with more
modulation schemes added to WSJT-X as time goes by, and it is intended
to eventually replace WSJT10 for all modes. Before you fall in love with
any digital mode software, check out its limitations in this regard.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: KX3 and FLDIGI

Lyle Johnson
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
Kevin,

The IQ output is not processed by the DSP.  A signal above OR below the
carrier will show up.  There is no opposite sideband rejection.

A signal from the headphone jack will have the opposite sideband removed
or significantly reduced in amplitude.

73,

Lyle KK7P


> On 12/2/2016 2:43 PM, Kevin - K4VD wrote:
>> When using the KX3 with fldigi can I use the RX I/Q output from the
>> radio
>> to the computer? I can't find any reference to i/q in the fldigi docs so
>> I'm assuming the answer is no but thought I'd ask before giving up.

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Re: KX3 and FLDIGI

Kevin - K4VD
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
​OK - I got the answer concerning I/Q audio to fldigi. No advantage as
fldigi does not process I/Q signals. Maybe I'll drop a feature request on
the fldigi forum. It would be nice to see a nice, wide swath of a band. I
know Win4K3​ and PX3 and maybe some other tools are available but I was
kind of looking to simplify things. Fldigi seems to have most everything
wrapped into one package (many modes, logging, rig control, waterfall)
except support for I/Q and wsjt modes. I'm trying to find that balance
between having it all and reducing complexity. Figure that one out! :)

Thanks again,
Kevin K4VD
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Re: KX3 and FLDIGI

Barry K3NDM
Kevin,
     The simplest approach I found was to use a SignaLink USB plugged
into the audiophones out. I then used an amplified computer speaker
connected to the aux out of the SignaLink. This way I had to make no
cable or wiring change to go to a digital mode, except to replace the
mic with the cable FROM the signaLink. I could control audio levels very
easily this way.

     You really want to leave the I&Q available for spectrum display and
using CW Skimmer, if you use it; I do. You may want to look at Ham Radio
Deluxe and Win4K3. This will allow some pretty slick station
integration.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Kevin - K4VD" <[hidden email]>
To:
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 12/2/2016 4:30:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 and FLDIGI

>​OK - I got the answer concerning I/Q audio to fldigi. No advantage as
>fldigi does not process I/Q signals. Maybe I'll drop a feature request
>on
>the fldigi forum. It would be nice to see a nice, wide swath of a band.
>I
>know Win4K3​ and PX3 and maybe some other tools are available but I was
>kind of looking to simplify things. Fldigi seems to have most
>everything
>wrapped into one package (many modes, logging, rig control, waterfall)
>except support for I/Q and wsjt modes. I'm trying to find that balance
>between having it all and reducing complexity. Figure that one out! :)
>
>Thanks again,
>Kevin K4VD
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Re: KX3 and FLDIGI

John Pitz
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
There is also no harm in using IQ.  If you are jumping from digital to
ssb you may not want to be continuously plugging and unplugging any more
cables than necessary.


On Fri, 2016-12-02 at 12:41 -0800, Walter Underwood wrote:

> There is no advantage to using the I/Q output for fldigi. It only cares about one channel,
> so use the regular audio output.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
> > On Dec 2, 2016, at 12:25 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri,12/2/2016 12:15 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> >> Fldigi and other similar applications only use the left channel.
> >
> > Yes. MMTTY can be set to decode L or R, but only transmits Mono. 2Tone (an excellent RTTY program) can easily be set to RX and TX on L or R. WSJT-X can easily select L and R for both TX and RX, but WSJT10 is left channel only. Development of WSJT has shifted to WSJT-X, with more modulation schemes added to WSJT-X as time goes by, and it is intended to eventually replace WSJT10 for all modes. Before you fall in love with any digital mode software, check out its limitations in this regard.
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
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Re: KX3 and FLDIGI

Kevin - K4VD
John, that's exactly why I was asking about I/Q - to free up the phone jack
but a wide spectrum display would have been nice in fldigi.

Ask Barry suggests, keeping the I/Q jack open allows the use of CW Skimmer
(use it on my Flex, not on the KX3 yet) or Win4K3. I own win4k3 but not
fully using it yet. I'll slowly work into integrating other tools into a
package but each one does add it's own complexity to the mix.

73,
Kev K4VD

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 5:01 PM, John Pitz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There is also no harm in using IQ.  If you are jumping from digital to
> ssb you may not want to be continuously plugging and unplugging any more
> cables than necessary.
>
>
> On Fri, 2016-12-02 at 12:41 -0800, Walter Underwood wrote:
>
> > There is no advantage to using the I/Q output for fldigi. It only cares
> about one channel,
> > so use the regular audio output.
> >
> > wunder
> > K6WRU
> > Walter Underwood
> > CM87wj
> > http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> >
> > > On Dec 2, 2016, at 12:25 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri,12/2/2016 12:15 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> > >> Fldigi and other similar applications only use the left channel.
> > >
> > > Yes. MMTTY can be set to decode L or R, but only transmits Mono. 2Tone
> (an excellent RTTY program) can easily be set to RX and TX on L or R.
> WSJT-X can easily select L and R for both TX and RX, but WSJT10 is left
> channel only. Development of WSJT has shifted to WSJT-X, with more
> modulation schemes added to WSJT-X as time goes by, and it is intended to
> eventually replace WSJT10 for all modes. Before you fall in love with any
> digital mode software, check out its limitations in this regard.
> > >
> > > 73, Jim K9YC
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
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Re: KX3 and FLDIGI

Nr4c
In reply to this post by Kevin - K4VD
Yes. The answer is NO!

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Dec 2, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Kevin - K4VD <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> When using the KX3 with fldigi can I use the RX I/Q output from the radio
> to the computer? I can't find any reference to i/q in the fldigi docs so
> I'm assuming the answer is no but thought I'd ask before giving up.
>
> Kev K4VD
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Re: KX3 and FLDIGI

Nr4c
In reply to this post by John Pitz
You're only using one of the signals, either I or Q and  at very low level. I believe you'd get better service with the phones output. Fldigi is only looking at the tip signal

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Dec 2, 2016, at 2:57 PM, John Pitz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I have been and it seems to work just fine.  I have made contacts using
> that setup with PSK31 and have decoded PSK31, RTTY, as well as one other
> mode-can't remember which at the moment.  I have also been told rather
> emphatically that fldigi would not work with the IQ signal.  My
> experience is it works just fine.  The width of the spectrum is quite a
> bit less than what I think a full panadaptor would give.
>
>
>
>> On Fri, 2016-12-02 at 14:43 -0500, Kevin - K4VD wrote:
>>
>> When using the KX3 with fldigi can I use the RX I/Q output from the radio
>> to the computer? I can't find any reference to i/q in the fldigi docs so
>> I'm assuming the answer is no but thought I'd ask before giving up.
>>
>> Kev K4VD
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>
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Re: KX3 and FLDIGI

Elecraft mailing list
In reply to this post by Kevin - K4VD
Lyle KK7P wrote:
"The IQ output is not processed by the DSP.  A signal above OR below the
carrier will show up.  There is no opposite sideband rejection."

I think the point of Lyle's response was missed.  Signals in both sidebands will be displayed on the FLDIGI waterfall! 

What does this mean?  If you have the KX3 tuned to 7.100, and you see a signal on the waterfall at 7.102, that station may actually be on 7.102 as displayed on the waterfall, which is OK since FLDIGI will then transmit back to the station on that frequency.  But if the station is actually on 7.098, it will still be displayed at 7.102 on the warerfall, but FLDIGI will then transmit on 7.102 since it doesn't know which sideband the signal is in.  You will end up transmitting 4Khz above the other station's frequency.

Why doesn't SDR software have the same problem?  Because SDR software uses the phase information in the In-phase and Quadrature signals to determine which sideband the signal is in.  

Using the phone jack for FLDIGI allows the SDR routines in the KX3 DSP to do this, thereby eliminating the signals in the unused sideband.

I hope that makes some sense.  Unfortunately, this can be difficult to explain via email.


Mark
KE6BB

-------- Original message --------From: Lyle Johnson <[hidden email]> Date: 12/2/16  12:57 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 and FLDIGI
Kevin,

The IQ output is not processed by the DSP.  A signal above OR below the
carrier will show up.  There is no opposite sideband rejection.

A signal from the headphone jack will have the opposite sideband removed
or significantly reduced in amplitude.

73,

Lyle KK7P


> On 12/2/2016 2:43 PM, Kevin - K4VD wrote:
>> When using the KX3 with fldigi can I use the RX I/Q output from the
>> radio
>> to the computer? I can't find any reference to i/q in the fldigi docs so
>> I'm assuming the answer is no but thought I'd ask before giving up.

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