Location of VFO B on the K4

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Location of VFO B on the K4

Rick Kourey
First, let me say, I have never owned an Elecraft radio or amplifier but I have become interested in the K4 and the KPA1500 amplifier combination.  

One of the most surprising features on the K4 is VFO B is located at the top right side of the radio.  Thus you cannot rest the palm of your hand on the desktop and turn VFO B with ease using your fingers like you can do with the main VFO A.  This seems so unnatural to me and I wonder if there is a reason VFO B would be placed in such a high-up location.  I am not sure I have ever seen this on competing radios as the smaller VFO B knob always seems to be located next to the main VFO which is near the bottom edge of the radio.  Help me understand why this physical design was chosen.

Rick Kourey (K4KL)
Marvin/Charlotte, NC
[hidden email]

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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

wayne burdick
Administrator
Hi Rick,

Good question. Based in part on a survey of potential users, we chose to put the RIT/XIT knob at bottom right -- also a traditional location, one that matches that of the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. VFO B is less often used in practice. That said, the radio is only 4.5" tall and both knobs are very comfortably used in these locations.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



> On May 24, 2019, at 5:36 PM, Rick Kourey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> First, let me say, I have never owned an Elecraft radio or amplifier but I have become interested in the K4 and the KPA1500 amplifier combination.  
>
> One of the most surprising features on the K4 is VFO B is located at the top right side of the radio....
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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

ke9uw
Good answer. Reading that, I realize I don’t use B much.

Chuck Jack
KE9UW

Sent from my iPhone, cjack

> On May 24, 2019, at 7:43 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> Good question. Based in part on a survey of potential users, we chose to put the RIT/XIT knob at bottom right -- also a traditional location, one that matches that of the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. VFO B is less often used in practice. That said, the radio is only 4.5" tall and both knobs are very comfortably used in these locations.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
>> On May 24, 2019, at 5:36 PM, Rick Kourey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> First, let me say, I have never owned an Elecraft radio or amplifier but I have become interested in the K4 and the KPA1500 amplifier combination.  
>>
>> One of the most surprising features on the K4 is VFO B is located at the top right side of the radio....
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

Nr4c
You also may find the touch screen or mouse may be used often.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On May 24, 2019, at 9:16 PM, hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Good answer. Reading that, I realize I don’t use B much.
>
> Chuck Jack
> KE9UW
>
> Sent from my iPhone, cjack
>
>> On May 24, 2019, at 7:43 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rick,
>>
>> Good question. Based in part on a survey of potential users, we chose to put the RIT/XIT knob at bottom right -- also a traditional location, one that matches that of the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. VFO B is less often used in practice. That said, the radio is only 4.5" tall and both knobs are very comfortably used in these locations.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 24, 2019, at 5:36 PM, Rick Kourey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> First, let me say, I have never owned an Elecraft radio or amplifier but I have become interested in the K4 and the KPA1500 amplifier combination.  
>>>
>>> One of the most surprising features on the K4 is VFO B is located at the top right side of the radio....
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

Kenneth P Alexander
In reply to this post by wayne burdick
I'm sure somebody make a custom CNC titanium VFO-B wrist rest...right after
they get their 2 lb custom CNC VFO knobs to market! 😜

Ken Alexander (still VE3HLS)
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com


On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 12:43 AM Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Rick,
>
> Good question. Based in part on a survey of potential users, we chose to
> put the RIT/XIT knob at bottom right -- also a traditional location, one
> that matches that of the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. VFO B is less often used in
> practice. That said, the radio is only 4.5" tall and both knobs are very
> comfortably used in these locations.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
> > On May 24, 2019, at 5:36 PM, Rick Kourey <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > First, let me say, I have never owned an Elecraft radio or amplifier but
> I have become interested in the K4 and the KPA1500 amplifier combination.
> >
> > One of the most surprising features on the K4 is VFO B is located at the
> top right side of the radio....
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

W0FK
In reply to this post by wayne burdick
wayne burdick wrote

> Hi Rick,
>
> Good question. Based in part on a survey of potential users, we chose to
> put the RIT/XIT knob at bottom right -- also a traditional location, one
> that matches that of the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. VFO B is less often used in
> practice. That said, the radio is only 4.5" tall and both knobs are very
> comfortably used in these locations.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR

I had earlier posted my surprise that the VFO B tuning knob wasn't adjacent
to the VFO knob. That's been a "typical" location for many years across many
radios. Yaesu's FT1000D and FT1000MP Mark V, Ten-Tec Orion, Icom IC-7800,
etc. From my perspective, the location in the lower right is more convenient
for tuning VFO B (transmit frequency) with dual receive to locate where the
DX station is listening in split operations. Granted, with a KPOD, the
location of VFO B tuning becomes moot as tuning control is at my
fingetrtips. But absent a KPOD, reaching up isn't quite as convenient and
you can't rest your wrist on the desk to tune.

If I were designing the radio, I'd move the VFO B knob down to the lower
right, use a larger knob, put RIT immediately above that, and move the 4
buttons up where the VFO knob is currently located.

73

Lou, W0FK



-----
St. Louis, MO

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that
genius has its limits." Albert Einstein


--
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genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

Nr4c
Or how about tap VFO B frq in touch screen and turn the big knob?

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On May 25, 2019, at 1:00 PM, W0FK <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> wayne burdick wrote
>> Hi Rick,
>>
>> Good question. Based in part on a survey of potential users, we chose to
>> put the RIT/XIT knob at bottom right -- also a traditional location, one
>> that matches that of the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. VFO B is less often used in
>> practice. That said, the radio is only 4.5" tall and both knobs are very
>> comfortably used in these locations.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>
> I had earlier posted my surprise that the VFO B tuning knob wasn't adjacent
> to the VFO knob. That's been a "typical" location for many years across many
> radios. Yaesu's FT1000D and FT1000MP Mark V, Ten-Tec Orion, Icom IC-7800,
> etc. From my perspective, the location in the lower right is more convenient
> for tuning VFO B (transmit frequency) with dual receive to locate where the
> DX station is listening in split operations. Granted, with a KPOD, the
> location of VFO B tuning becomes moot as tuning control is at my
> fingetrtips. But absent a KPOD, reaching up isn't quite as convenient and
> you can't rest your wrist on the desk to tune.
>
> If I were designing the radio, I'd move the VFO B knob down to the lower
> right, use a larger knob, put RIT immediately above that, and move the 4
> buttons up where the VFO knob is currently located.
>
> 73
>
> Lou, W0FK
>
>
>
> -----
> St. Louis, MO
>
> "The difference between stupidity and genius is that
> genius has its limits." Albert Einstein
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

Elecraft mailing list
In reply to this post by W0FK
I use the B VFO control very often. Once I tune to a station that's operating CW split, I press the PF1 button on my K3 to run a macro that turns on the second receiver, sets its bandwidth and enables TX up 1 KHz. My hand then moves to the B VFO control for TX frequency adjustments based on my success vs what I hear the DX send and what I see on the P3.

I almost never use RIT.

I too would have placed the K4 B VFO knob in a location similar to the K3's.

Taking a closer look at the K4, I see four programmable buttons (vs two on the K3). If I were to use PF1 for the same macro as above my hand would already be right there to tune the B VFO.

Of course the proof is in the actual experience. I suspect getting use to position of the K4 B VFO control will be quick.

Looks like cognitive science at work.

73 - Steve WB6RSE
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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

ke9uw
In reply to this post by W0FK
Hmmm...I'm envisioning a modular front panel where you move modules around, they plug into a common buss and then you label the modules' one line display with some macro data input to the radio. A bigger K pod with one line labels would be nice too. As long as we're dreaming...

Chuck KE9UW
[hidden email]

Sent from my iPad

> On May 25, 2019, at 12:00 PM, W0FK <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> wayne burdick wrote
>> Hi Rick,
>>
>> Good question. Based in part on a survey of potential users, we chose to
>> put the RIT/XIT knob at bottom right -- also a traditional location, one
>> that matches that of the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. VFO B is less often used in
>> practice. That said, the radio is only 4.5" tall and both knobs are very
>> comfortably used in these locations.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>
> I had earlier posted my surprise that the VFO B tuning knob wasn't adjacent
> to the VFO knob. That's been a "typical" location for many years across many
> radios. Yaesu's FT1000D and FT1000MP Mark V, Ten-Tec Orion, Icom IC-7800,
> etc. From my perspective, the location in the lower right is more convenient
> for tuning VFO B (transmit frequency) with dual receive to locate where the
> DX station is listening in split operations. Granted, with a KPOD, the
> location of VFO B tuning becomes moot as tuning control is at my
> fingetrtips. But absent a KPOD, reaching up isn't quite as convenient and
> you can't rest your wrist on the desk to tune.
>
> If I were designing the radio, I'd move the VFO B knob down to the lower
> right, use a larger knob, put RIT immediately above that, and move the 4
> buttons up where the VFO knob is currently located.
>
> 73
>
> Lou, W0FK
>
>
>
> -----
> St. Louis, MO
>
> "The difference between stupidity and genius is that
> genius has its limits." Albert Einstein
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

Bill Steffey NY9H

I rarely use RIT/XIT...   and the B VFO  frequently....

    so after November I may HAVE to use the K-POD more than I have been.


On 5/25/2019 3:39 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:

> Hmmm...I'm envisioning a modular front panel where you move modules around, they plug into a common buss and then you label the modules' one line display with some macro data input to the radio. A bigger K pod with one line labels would be nice too. As long as we're dreaming...
>
> Chuck KE9UW
> [hidden email]
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On May 25, 2019, at 12:00 PM, W0FK <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> wayne burdick wrote
>>> Hi Rick,
>>>
>>> Good question. Based in part on a survey of potential users, we chose to
>>> put the RIT/XIT knob at bottom right -- also a traditional location, one
>>> that matches that of the K3/K3S/KX2/KX3. VFO B is less often used in
>>> practice. That said, the radio is only 4.5" tall and both knobs are very
>>> comfortably used in these locations.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
>> I had earlier posted my surprise that the VFO B tuning knob wasn't adjacent
>> to the VFO knob. That's been a "typical" location for many years across many
>> radios. Yaesu's FT1000D and FT1000MP Mark V, Ten-Tec Orion, Icom IC-7800,
>> etc. From my perspective, the location in the lower right is more convenient
>> for tuning VFO B (transmit frequency) with dual receive to locate where the
>> DX station is listening in split operations. Granted, with a KPOD, the
>> location of VFO B tuning becomes moot as tuning control is at my
>> fingetrtips. But absent a KPOD, reaching up isn't quite as convenient and
>> you can't rest your wrist on the desk to tune.
>>
>> If I were designing the radio, I'd move the VFO B knob down to the lower
>> right, use a larger knob, put RIT immediately above that, and move the 4
>> buttons up where the VFO knob is currently located.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Lou, W0FK
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> St. Louis, MO
>>
>> "The difference between stupidity and genius is that
>> genius has its limits." Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

W0FK
In reply to this post by Nr4c
Nr4c wrote
> Or how about tap VFO B frq in touch screen and turn the big knob?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill

One knob tuning solutions aren’t good ones. If a weak station is your target
and you forget to tap vfo b, you’ll tune right off the target’s frequency
and possibly lose him. It’s happened to me even with 2 vfo knobs. Grab the
wrong knob and gone...

Lou, W0FK



-----
St. Louis, MO

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that
genius has its limits." Albert Einstein


--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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"The difference between stupidity and genius is that
genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

Don Wilhelm
In reply to this post by Bill Steffey NY9H
Since any K4 has the subRX built in, I don't see the problem, although
some changes in operating habits may be in order.

For working DX, tune to the DX station with VFO A - then put VFO A into
VFO B - Listen to the DX on the subRX.

Then tune with VFO A for a suitable transmit frequency.  Never a need to
touch the VFO B knob, and no need to turn on SPLIT - always transmit on
VFO A frequency.

The only reason to touch the VFO B knob would be if and when the DX
decides to move his transmit frequency.

For contests folks will likely use RIT/XIT more than VFO B (except when
scanning another band for multipliers), and for that type operation the
K-Pod would be a desirable addition for many reasons, including easy
access to Macros.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/25/2019 3:56 PM, Bill Steffey wrote:
>
> I rarely use RIT/XIT...   and the B VFO  frequently....
>
>     so after November I may HAVE to use the K-POD more than I have been.
>
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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

Elecraft mailing list
I always have the DX on VFO A on my K3 because this allows quick adjustment of receiving controls - NR NB Width Shift etc - not so straight forward if the DX is on B.

With VFO B wide open it's much easier - for me - to assess and move around in a pile up.

Everyone has their method. This works for me with the purpose of spending as little time as possible in a pile up.

There's no right nor wrong - just different.

Ergonomically you might not have laid out something the same way but you'll likely get use to it fairly fast.

"The only constant is change."

73 - Steve WB6RSE

>  
> On May 25, 2019, at 1:27 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Since any K4 has the subRX built in, I don't see the problem, although some changes in operating habits may be in order.
>
> For working DX, tune to the DX station with VFO A - then put VFO A into VFO B - Listen to the DX on the subRX.
>
> Then tune with VFO A for a suitable transmit frequency.  Never a need to touch the VFO B knob, and no need to turn on SPLIT - always transmit on VFO A frequency.
>
> The only reason to touch the VFO B knob would be if and when the DX decides to move his transmit frequency.
>
> For contests folks will likely use RIT/XIT more than VFO B (except when scanning another band for multipliers), and for that type operation the K-Pod would be a desirable addition for many reasons, including easy access to Macros.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 5/25/2019 3:56 PM, Bill Steffey wrote:
>> I rarely use RIT/XIT...   and the B VFO  frequently....
>>    so after November I may HAVE to use the K-POD more than I have been.
>
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Location of VFO B on the K4

ANDY DURBIN
In reply to this post by Rick Kourey
"It’s happened to me even with 2 vfo knobs. Grab the wrong knob and gone... "

Easily solved on the TS-590 by saving rig state to QuickMem.   It's the first thing I do when I have the DX tuned.   One or 2 button pushes and (almost) everything is back to when you saved it.   I would hope the K3/K4 have a similar feature.

73,
Andy, k3wyc
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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

Augie "Gus" Hansen
Just use LOCK to disable tuning on the VFO you don't want to
accidentally move.

Gus, KB0YH

On 5/25/2019 3:54 PM, Andy Durbin wrote:

> "It’s happened to me even with 2 vfo knobs. Grab the wrong knob and gone..."
>
> Easily solved on the TS-590 by saving rig state to QuickMem.   It's the first thing I do when I have the DX tuned.   One or 2 button pushes and (almost) everything is back to when you saved it.   I would hope the K3/K4 have a similar feature.
>
> 73,
> Andy, k3wyc
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

Jim - N4ST
In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN
In the olden days of radio, I think even the main VFO on those big rigs was
further off the desk than VFO B is on the K4.
I know they were when I put the rig on an inclined platform so that the
front panel was facing me better.
_______________
73,
Jim - N4ST

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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list
I love my K3, but like in anything you love, there are things you hate. In my case they are the touch/hold interface and BSET (which is also a hold function). I know the tradeoffs, but I still wish for dedicated controls.

Here’s an unrelated thing that might be possible as an option on the K4: in CW mode, what if the gain increased gradually as you decreased the bandwidth? It would give a feeling of focusing on a signal.

Just a thought.

Victor 4X6GP

> On 25 May 2019, at 23:45, Steve Lawrence via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I always have the DX on VFO A on my K3 because this allows quick adjustment of receiving controls - NR NB Width Shift etc - not so straight forward if the DX is on B.
>
> With VFO B wide open it's much easier - for me - to assess and move around in a pile up.
>
> Everyone has their method. This works for me with the purpose of spending as little time as possible in a pile up.
>
> There's no right nor wrong - just different.
>
> Ergonomically you might not have laid out something the same way but you'll likely get use to it fairly fast.
>
> "The only constant is change."
>
> 73 - Steve WB6RSE
>
>>
>> On May 25, 2019, at 1:27 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Since any K4 has the subRX built in, I don't see the problem, although some changes in operating habits may be in order.
>>
>> For working DX, tune to the DX station with VFO A - then put VFO A into VFO B - Listen to the DX on the subRX.
>>
>> Then tune with VFO A for a suitable transmit frequency.  Never a need to touch the VFO B knob, and no need to turn on SPLIT - always transmit on VFO A frequency.
>>
>> The only reason to touch the VFO B knob would be if and when the DX decides to move his transmit frequency.
>>
>> For contests folks will likely use RIT/XIT more than VFO B (except when scanning another band for multipliers), and for that type operation the K-Pod would be a desirable addition for many reasons, including easy access to Macros.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>> On 5/25/2019 3:56 PM, Bill Steffey wrote:
>>> I rarely use RIT/XIT...   and the B VFO  frequently....
>>>   so after November I may HAVE to use the K-POD more than I have been.
>>
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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

Rick Tavan-2
In reply to this post by Jim - N4ST
You might try my approach - I have a shelf supported by 2x4's on which my
K3 sits. The radio, with its bail extended, points directly at my eyes, the
perfect viewing angle. I put a large monitor on the shelf between two K3's
and a laptop on the desk in front of the monitor, giving me lots of screen
real estate. The K4 will work similarly. The space under the shelf protects
paddles, switch boxes, USB hubs, and other small accessories. The shelf can
be 1' wide book shelving or custom-cut press-board or plywood to place the
rig(s) at an angle, pointing "in" toward the op. Easy-peasy, inexpensive,
customizable and, IMHO, ideal.

73,

/Rick N6XI
--

Rick Tavan
Truckee, CA


On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 3:56 PM Jim - N4ST <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In the olden days of radio, I think even the main VFO on those big rigs was
> further off the desk than VFO B is on the K4.
> I know they were when I put the rig on an inclined platform so that the
> front panel was facing me better.
> _______________
> 73,
> Jim - N4ST
>
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Re: Location of VFO B on the K4

Vic DiCiccio VE3YT
In reply to this post by W0FK
Lou, I sometimes have this exact "multi-use of one knob" problem with the
K-Pod.  I normally have it set to VFO A, but while running in contests I
might set it to RIT.  Then it becomes muscle memory to use it to adjust RIT,
and if set to VFO A, I inadvertently QSY.  So I've learned to keep the K-Pod
on VFO A, and reach for RIT on the radio, which is pretty easily done.

Vic VE3YT



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