N1MM CW issue

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N1MM CW issue

ik4nmf
Hi all,

I noticed a problem with N1MM + in CW.  
When I select a speed higher than 28-30wpm, the weighing between points and lines changes and,
at 40wpm the transmitted message becomes incomprehensible.
Any suggestions?

73, Fausto IK4NMF
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Re: N1MM CW issue

Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
If you have a K3 with the old synthesizer, then you will have this
problem with a paddle or with N1MM, or indeed with any source of CW. One
solution is to activate QRQ mode (CONFIG CW QRQ = ON). There are some
limitations, such as not being able to use it with SPLIT or RIT/XIT. The
better solution is to buy the new synthesizer and replace it. In that
case, if you have the second receiver, you need two synthesizers, which
unfortunately will be expensive (especially in Europe).

The K3S comes with the new synthesizer.

I suggest you try sending with a paddle at the speed you want to use to
determine if this is the cause.

There is also a problem with any computer-generated CW that it can be
affected by other processes in the computer, especially if you are
accessing the Internet for spots at the same time. The best solution for
this is to get a Winkey device which will interface with N1MM+ and
generate the CW.

Both of these issues could contribute to the problem.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 4 Dec 2015 10:14, Fausto Coletti wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I noticed a problem with N1MM + in CW.
> When I select a speed higher than 28-30wpm, the weighing between points and lines changes and,
> at 40wpm the transmitted message becomes incomprehensible.
> Any suggestions?
>
> 73, Fausto IK4NMF
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Test, do not read

ik4nmf
Test
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Test do not read

ik4nmf
In reply to this post by Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
Test
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Re: N1MM CW issue

Brian Hunt
In reply to this post by ik4nmf
I think the dits that N1MM makes are too short, at least to my ear. I set the CW weighting in N1MM 10-20% heavier and that seems to help. I never get much above 32 won but it seems fine there. The CW weight setting in the K3 menu only affects paddle input.

73,
Brian, K0DTJ

> When I select a speed higher than 28-30wpm, the weighing between points and lines changes and,
> at 40wpm the transmitted message becomes incomprehensible.
>
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Re: N1MM CW issue

Chester Alderman
What you both neglect to mention is how you are keying with NL+? It makes a
difference.
For keying my K3, I use the DTR line. I have tested sending CW, with the
default weight setting, up to about 115 wpm and from 20 wpm up to the max of
my K3, in my opinion, the NL+ weight maintains perfect weight/spacing up to
that speed.

So what do you use for keying NL+ and what rig are you using?

73,
Tom - W4BQF


-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brian
Hunt
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 10:34 AM
To: Fausto Coletti
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] N1MM CW issue

I think the dits that N1MM makes are too short, at least to my ear. I set
the CW weighting in N1MM 10-20% heavier and that seems to help. I never get
much above 32 won but it seems fine there. The CW weight setting in the K3
menu only affects paddle input.

73,
Brian, K0DTJ

> When I select a speed higher than 28-30wpm, the weighing between
> points and lines changes and, at 40wpm the transmitted message becomes
incomprehensible.
>
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Re: N1MM CW issue

alorona
Right after the CW SS I composed a message for the list, then trashed it after sleeping on it which I always do before posting. Now that the issue has come up on its own I wish to make an observation.

During the contest I heard many stations with shortened dits. They sounded pretty bad and I reckon they weren't listening to themselves else they'd have done something about it.

Presuming that some of these signals were coming out of K3's [because some of these were well-known contesters] I actually got nervous and checked my own signal which, like Tom's, is generated by N1MM+ keying the K3 through DTR, but was relieved to find that my dits were okay.

So there's something going on out there, and I don't know what it is, but what I do know is that keying through the USB-to-Serial is proven to work well as Tom has verified. He should know; he is a very QRQ CW op.


Al W6LX



>>>For keying my K3, I use the DTR line. I have tested sending CW, with the
>>>default weight setting, up to about 115 wpm and from 20 wpm up to the max of
>>>my K3, in my opinion, the NL+ weight maintains perfect weight/spacing up to

>>>that speed.
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Re: N1MM CW issue

Kevin Stover
I've used a Winkey USB for about four years now. Perfect code. I don't
have to worry about the PC getting busy and screwing up the CW sent with
serial lines.

On 12/4/2015 11:44 AM, Al Lorona wrote:

> Right after the CW SS I composed a message for the list, then trashed it after sleeping on it which I always do before posting. Now that the issue has come up on its own I wish to make an observation.
>
> During the contest I heard many stations with shortened dits. They sounded pretty bad and I reckon they weren't listening to themselves else they'd have done something about it.
>
> Presuming that some of these signals were coming out of K3's [because some of these were well-known contesters] I actually got nervous and checked my own signal which, like Tom's, is generated by N1MM+ keying the K3 through DTR, but was relieved to find that my dits were okay.
>
> So there's something going on out there, and I don't know what it is, but what I do know is that keying through the USB-to-Serial is proven to work well as Tom has verified. He should know; he is a very QRQ CW op.
>
>
> Al W6LX
>


--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: N1MM CW issue

Elecraft mailing list
In reply to this post by ik4nmf
 
I did the same thing after having the same problem and have to agree  the
WInkey USB is (so far) flawless.
 
But I really would like to know how Tom avoids the issue directly keying  
the radio, especially for portable ops.
 
Operating under W8.1 with direct keying I had about everything that could  
be shutdown, shutdown, and still hit the 30 WPM wall without the  WInkeyer.
 
Scott ka9p

 
 
In a message dated 12/4/2015 7:01:22 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
[hidden email] writes:

I've  used a Winkey USB for about four years now. Perfect code. I don't
have to  worry about the PC getting busy and screwing up the CW sent with
serial  lines.

On 12/4/2015 11:44 AM, Al Lorona wrote:
> Right after the  CW SS I composed a message for the list, then trashed it
after sleeping on it  which I always do before posting. Now that the issue
has come up on its own I  wish to make an observation.
>
> During the contest I heard many  stations with shortened dits. They
sounded pretty bad and I reckon they  weren't listening to themselves else they'd
have done something about  it.
>
> Presuming that some of these signals were coming out of  K3's [because
some of these were well-known contesters] I actually got nervous  and checked
my own signal which, like Tom's, is generated by N1MM+ keying the  K3
through DTR, but was relieved to find that my dits were  okay.
>
> So there's something going on out there, and I don't  know what it is,
but what I do know is that keying through the USB-to-Serial  is proven to work
well as Tom has verified. He should know; he is a very QRQ  CW op.
>
>
> Al W6LX
>


--
R. Kevin  Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC  #3441


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Re: N1MM CW issue

w5sum
I also use the WinKey USB with my K3 and it works flawlessly!

Ronnie W5SUM

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott via Elecraft
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 8:27 PM
To: [hidden email] ; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] N1MM CW issue


I did the same thing after having the same problem and have to agree  the
WInkey USB is (so far) flawless.

But I really would like to know how Tom avoids the issue directly keying
the radio, especially for portable ops.

Operating under W8.1 with direct keying I had about everything that could
be shutdown, shutdown, and still hit the 30 WPM wall without the  WInkeyer.

Scott ka9p



In a message dated 12/4/2015 7:01:22 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:

I've  used a Winkey USB for about four years now. Perfect code. I don't
have to  worry about the PC getting busy and screwing up the CW sent with
serial  lines.

On 12/4/2015 11:44 AM, Al Lorona wrote:
> Right after the  CW SS I composed a message for the list, then trashed it
after sleeping on it  which I always do before posting. Now that the issue
has come up on its own I  wish to make an observation.
>
> During the contest I heard many  stations with shortened dits. They
sounded pretty bad and I reckon they  weren't listening to themselves else
they'd
have done something about  it.
>
> Presuming that some of these signals were coming out of  K3's [because
some of these were well-known contesters] I actually got nervous  and
checked
my own signal which, like Tom's, is generated by N1MM+ keying the  K3
through DTR, but was relieved to find that my dits were  okay.
>
> So there's something going on out there, and I don't  know what it is,
but what I do know is that keying through the USB-to-Serial  is proven to
work
well as Tom has verified. He should know; he is a very QRQ  CW op.
>
>
> Al W6LX
>


--
R. Kevin  Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC  #3441


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N1MM CW issue

Guy Olinger K2AV
In reply to this post by alorona
Hi, Al

I have a long list of things that will clip dits, and only one of them
involved the K3, and that went away nicely with the new synthesizers.

El Numero Uno contest QSK problem, with nothing in second place, is QSK
dealing with amplifiers that will not do T/R turn-around (including the
relay points *settling*) in less time than the space between dits  :>)  The
manufacturers do not want to deal with it because it's either expensive and
tricky with relays, or it's pin diodes that get whacked at full QRO from
transmitting into an open, static on the antenna, lightning induced pulses,
etc. Some hams do fine with the pin diodes and others have nothing but
trouble with them, depends on a lot of things.

Some transceiver manufacturers simply clip the keyed input if the delay is
too long, a defensive solution resulting in short dits but *not* burning
amp relays or carbon-arcing amplifier bandswitches.

Myself, I have given up on contest QSK, and let my microHam u2R handle
providing PTT to the amp and delay to the u2R generated code. Since the u2R
(not the K3) converts both ascii data via a serial cable from the PC and my
paddle input to keyed line, and it uses the WinKey chip to do most of that,
it is also in a position to slightly delay the onset of morse output just a
little behind a PTT output. That delay can be set to match the most
atrocious T/R relay, including an old unmodified AL1200, with never a
clipped dit.

That is separate from the ancient problem of a computer not quite having
enough processing power to handle the operating system AND generate
pristine on/off morse code key output. Again some do OK generating code
this way and others have awful problems with it. The reasons why or why not
are often not clear at all.

These issues have gigabytes of postings on the subject in the various
ham archives, rehashed ad nauseum as the subject comes up over and over
again over the last two decades. It certainly is anything but an
recently emergent problem.

With my settings, the Alpha drops at the end of each letter, which is good
enough to hear if someone already started sending under me and I can stop
paddling or hit escape. I gave up on contest QSK not because of the K3, but
because of the general issues that touch everything, and I am tired of
replacing relays in amplifiers and finding out I have clicks when the
contacts go bad.

When there is a transistor full QRO amp using battleship grade pin diodes,
where the entire amp is as reliable as the KPA500 or my tube Alpha, **and
that does not exceed the rest of my station in purchase price**, I'll
switch. But I *continue* to hear stories about pin diodes and transistor
amps blowing finals, even if some insist that theirs have always been fine
(God bless them, I envy their good luck).

Last night in the ARRL 160 contest there was a K0 station that could not
send "IA" for his section. Before dit-dropping occurred to me, he was
sending "EA" for section and I was asking for a fill.

73, Guy K2AV

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Al Lorona <[hidden email]
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[hidden email]');>> wrote:

> Right after the CW SS I composed a message for the list, then trashed it
> after sleeping on it which I always do before posting. Now that the issue
> has come up on its own I wish to make an observation.
>
> During the contest I heard many stations with shortened dits. They sounded
> pretty bad and I reckon they weren't listening to themselves else they'd
> have done something about it.
>
> Presuming that some of these signals were coming out of K3's [because some
> of these were well-known contesters] I actually got nervous and checked my
> own signal which, like Tom's, is generated by N1MM+ keying the K3 through
> DTR, but was relieved to find that my dits were okay.
>
> So there's something going on out there, and I don't know what it is, but
> what I do know is that keying through the USB-to-Serial is proven to work
> well as Tom has verified. He should know; he is a very QRQ CW op.
>
> Al W6LX
>
>

--
Sent via Gmail Mobile on my iPhone
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