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New Kenwood TS0-590

Dyarnes-2
I finally got a chance to see the new Kenwood rig at HRO in Portland
last Saturday.  Didn't get to play with it for very long as there were
too many others who wanted to play with it too.  Anyway, it seems like a
nice radio--sounded good--looks good--but still missing lots of things
we get with a K3.  It does seem like an obvious attempt to compete
somewhat with the K3, but it's NOT a true contender for a lot of
reasons.

The ergonomics were fairly good, and unlike Yaesu, for example, they
don't bury everything deep in a menu system.  But you still have to push
buttons a few extra times.  For example, setting power level and keyer
speed takes a couple of extra pushes of buttons vs. the K3.  Like I said
above, I didn't really get to play with it very long, but I'm certain
you would be giving up a lot if you opted for this vs. a K3.

The folks at Pacificon probably got a better chance to look at the new
Kenwood.  At least it shows that Kenwood is still in the amateur radio
business, which I think is a good thing.

Dave W7AQK

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Re: New Kenwood TS0-590

Johnny Siu
Believe me or not.  The designer of TS590 also a K3 owner.  I met him in Aug
2010 in Tokyo.

cheers,

Johnny VR2XMC




________________________________
寄件人﹕ "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
收件人﹕ [hidden email]
傳送日期﹕ 2010/10/18 (一) 10:05:40 PM
主題: [Elecraft] New Kenwood TS0-590

I finally got a chance to see the new Kenwood rig at HRO in Portland
last Saturday.  Didn't get to play with it for very long as there were
too many others who wanted to play with it too.  Anyway, it seems like a
nice radio--sounded good--looks good--but still missing lots of things
we get with a K3.  It does seem like an obvious attempt to compete
somewhat with the K3, but it's NOT a true contender for a lot of
reasons.

The ergonomics were fairly good, and unlike Yaesu, for example, they
don't bury everything deep in a menu system.  But you still have to push
buttons a few extra times.  For example, setting power level and keyer
speed takes a couple of extra pushes of buttons vs. the K3.  Like I said
above, I didn't really get to play with it very long, but I'm certain
you would be giving up a lot if you opted for this vs. a K3.

The folks at Pacificon probably got a better chance to look at the new
Kenwood.  At least it shows that Kenwood is still in the amateur radio
business, which I think is a good thing.

Dave W7AQK


     
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Re: New Kenwood TS0-590

W2RU - Bud Hippisley

On Oct 18, 2010, at 10:11 AM, Johnny Siu wrote:

> Believe me or not.  The designer of TS590 also a K3 owner.  I met him in Aug
> 2010 in Tokyo.


I sure hope so!  A good radio designer should be very aware of what the state-of-the-art is....

Bud, W2RU
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Re: Re: New Kenwood TS0-590

Joe Subich, W4TV-4
In reply to this post by Johnny Siu

 > Believe me or not.  The designer of TS590 also a K3 owner.

He sure made some very questionable choices if he had a K3 to
copy from!

The TS-590 only uses the down conversion/roofing filter system
on the 160, 80, 60, 40, 20 and 15 meter amateur bands!  Outside
those bands and above 21 MHz it is a conventional up conversion
design.  Why he chose to do what amounts to a complete second
receiver from the antenna to the 24 KHz DSP last IF/demodulator
is complete mystery.  For essentially the same parts cost he
could have included a second, lower performance receiver like
the FT-5000.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/18/2010 10:11 AM, Johnny Siu wrote:

> Believe me or not.  The designer of TS590 also a K3 owner.  I met him in Aug
> 2010 in Tokyo.
>
> cheers,
>
> Johnny VR2XMC
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> 寄件人﹕ "[hidden email]"<[hidden email]>
> 收件人﹕ [hidden email]
> 傳送日期﹕ 2010/10/18 (一) 10:05:40 PM
> 主題: [Elecraft] New Kenwood TS0-590
>
> I finally got a chance to see the new Kenwood rig at HRO in Portland
> last Saturday.  Didn't get to play with it for very long as there were
> too many others who wanted to play with it too.  Anyway, it seems like a
> nice radio--sounded good--looks good--but still missing lots of things
> we get with a K3.  It does seem like an obvious attempt to compete
> somewhat with the K3, but it's NOT a true contender for a lot of
> reasons.
>
> The ergonomics were fairly good, and unlike Yaesu, for example, they
> don't bury everything deep in a menu system.  But you still have to push
> buttons a few extra times.  For example, setting power level and keyer
> speed takes a couple of extra pushes of buttons vs. the K3.  Like I said
> above, I didn't really get to play with it very long, but I'm certain
> you would be giving up a lot if you opted for this vs. a K3.
>
> The folks at Pacificon probably got a better chance to look at the new
> Kenwood.  At least it shows that Kenwood is still in the amateur radio
> business, which I think is a good thing.
>
> Dave W7AQK
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: Re: New Kenwood TS0-590

Guy, K2AV
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>  > Believe me or not.  The designer of TS590 also a K3 owner.
>
> He sure made some very questionable choices if he had a K3 to
> copy from!
>
> The TS-590 only uses the down conversion/roofing filter system
> on the 160, 80, 60, 40, 20 and 15 meter amateur bands!  Outside
> those bands and above 21 MHz it is a conventional up conversion
> design.  Why he chose to do what amounts to a complete second
> receiver from the antenna to the 24 KHz DSP last IF/demodulator
> is complete mystery.  For essentially the same parts cost he
> could have included a second, lower performance receiver like
> the FT-5000.
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 10/18/2010 10:11 AM, Johnny Siu wrote:
>> Believe me or not.  The designer of TS590 also a K3 owner.  I met him in Aug
>> 2010 in Tokyo.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Johnny VR2XMC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> 寄件人﹕ "[hidden email]"<[hidden email]>
>> 收件人﹕ [hidden email]
>> 傳送日期﹕ 2010/10/18 (一) 10:05:40 PM
>> 主題: [Elecraft] New Kenwood TS0-590
>>
>> I finally got a chance to see the new Kenwood rig at HRO in Portland
>> last Saturday.  Didn't get to play with it for very long as there were
>> too many others who wanted to play with it too.  Anyway, it seems like a
>> nice radio--sounded good--looks good--but still missing lots of things
>> we get with a K3.  It does seem like an obvious attempt to compete
>> somewhat with the K3, but it's NOT a true contender for a lot of
>> reasons.
>>
>> The ergonomics were fairly good, and unlike Yaesu, for example, they
>> don't bury everything deep in a menu system.  But you still have to push
>> buttons a few extra times.  For example, setting power level and keyer
>> speed takes a couple of extra pushes of buttons vs. the K3.  Like I said
>> above, I didn't really get to play with it very long, but I'm certain
>> you would be giving up a lot if you opted for this vs. a K3.
>>
>> The folks at Pacificon probably got a better chance to look at the new
>> Kenwood.  At least it shows that Kenwood is still in the amateur radio
>> business, which I think is a good thing.
>>
>> Dave W7AQK
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: Re: New Kenwood TS0-590

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Looks like I missed a few other "tricks" (not treats) in the TS-590.

I refer the reader to Kenwood's own brochure for the TS-590 at:
<http://www.kenwoodusa.com/UserFiles/File/UnitedStates/Communications/AMA/Brochures/TS-590.pdf>
  and their ad on the rear cover of QST for
November 2010.

The brochure and the manual are at odds about "down-conversion"
on 60 meters.  The manual (Specifications, pg 82) says the 5 MHz
band uses down-conversion, the brochure (pg 3) omits 60 Meters
in the list of bands that use down-conversion.  Both sources and
the ad are clear that down-conversion is not used when the receive
bandwidth is more than 2.7 KHz (can you say ESSB), in AM or FM.
Instead the rig switches to the "conventional" up-convert to VHF
system.

The brochure also makes another strange claim ... the TS-590 uses
a "bare" DDS to drive the down-conversion mixer (pg 3) and claims
that architecture is "cleaner" with less reciprocal mixing than a
conventional PLL/VCO synthesizer.   The brochure shows a picture
of an Analog Devices AD9951 DDS ... I haven't checked recently but
last I heard the Analog Devices and similar DDS products had some
serious close-in spurs which resulted in poor wideband SFDR and
*MORE* reciprocal mixing than a well designed PLL/VCO synthesizer,
not less.

Taken with the lack of a sub-receiver, no input for a separate
receive antenna, no wideband IF for a panadapter, a 12V power
amplifier, etc.  the TS-590 is looking more and more like a warmed
over TS-2000 with a "gimmicky" (partial) amateur bands only front
end and not the serious, higher performance transceiver it was made
out to be.

When the serious testing begins, I hope independent engineers like
Rob Sherwood, Peter Hart and the ARRL Labs will compare performance
on 20 vs. 17 meters and check other issues like reciprocal mixing
and IMDDR3 for *both* "front ends."

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>   >  Believe me or not.  The designer of TS590 also a K3 owner.
>>
>> He sure made some very questionable choices if he had a K3 to
>> copy from!
>>
>> The TS-590 only uses the down conversion/roofing filter system
>> on the 160, 80, 60, 40, 20 and 15 meter amateur bands!  Outside
>> those bands and above 21 MHz it is a conventional up conversion
>> design.  Why he chose to do what amounts to a complete second
>> receiver from the antenna to the 24 KHz DSP last IF/demodulator
>> is complete mystery.  For essentially the same parts cost he
>> could have included a second, lower performance receiver like
>> the FT-5000.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>>     ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 10/18/2010 10:11 AM, Johnny Siu wrote:
>>> Believe me or not.  The designer of TS590 also a K3 owner.  I met him in Aug
>>> 2010 in Tokyo.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> Johnny VR2XMC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> 寄件人﹕ "[hidden email]"<[hidden email]>
>>> 收件人﹕ [hidden email]
>>> 傳送日期﹕ 2010/10/18 (一) 10:05:40 PM
>>> 主題: [Elecraft] New Kenwood TS0-590
>>>
>>> I finally got a chance to see the new Kenwood rig at HRO in Portland
>>> last Saturday.  Didn't get to play with it for very long as there were
>>> too many others who wanted to play with it too.  Anyway, it seems like a
>>> nice radio--sounded good--looks good--but still missing lots of things
>>> we get with a K3.  It does seem like an obvious attempt to compete
>>> somewhat with the K3, but it's NOT a true contender for a lot of
>>> reasons.
>>>
>>> The ergonomics were fairly good, and unlike Yaesu, for example, they
>>> don't bury everything deep in a menu system.  But you still have to push
>>> buttons a few extra times.  For example, setting power level and keyer
>>> speed takes a couple of extra pushes of buttons vs. the K3.  Like I said
>>> above, I didn't really get to play with it very long, but I'm certain
>>> you would be giving up a lot if you opted for this vs. a K3.
>>>
>>> The folks at Pacificon probably got a better chance to look at the new
>>> Kenwood.  At least it shows that Kenwood is still in the amateur radio
>>> business, which I think is a good thing.
>>>
>>> Dave W7AQK
>>>

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Re: Re: New Kenwood TS0-590

Barry N1EU
Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote
Taken with the lack of a sub-receiver, no input for a separate
receive antenna,  . . .
I'm also underwhelmed by the TS-590 but the TS-590 does have a clearly labeled rx ant on the rear panel.

73, Barry N1EU
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Re: Re: New Kenwood TS0-590

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

 > the TS-590 does have a clearly labeled rx ant on the rear panel.

My mistake.  What it lacks is a complete RX Ant loop and the
ability to insert RX bandpass filters or a RX antenna switch
and preamp like the KD9SV unit:
     http://www.radio-ware.com/products/svdx.htm

In addition, like every Kenwood transceiver the TS-590 fails to
provide band data for automatic antenna/amplifier band switching.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/19/2010 7:43 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:

>
>
> Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
>>
>>
>> Taken with the lack of a sub-receiver, no input for a separate
>> receive antenna,  . . .
>>
> I'm also underwhelmed by the TS-590 but the TS-590 does have a clearly
> labeled rx ant on the rear panel.
>
> 73, Barry N1EU
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