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New products

dennis rosenbalm
We have seen a remake of the K3 in the form of the K3s. Now we see the remake of the KX3 in the form of the KX2. So when are we going to see something really new from Elecraft? Surely the possibilities have not been exhausted. Touch screen GUI, VHF/UHF exclusive transceiver, 1.5 KW amp and tuner, new modes (is amateur radio video dead?). A great American company could be even greater by expanding it's product line with new things, not variations on the same thing.

Sent from my iPad
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Re: New products

Buddy Brannan
With the K3s, point taken. It's an upgraded K3. With the KX2, it's not a replacement for the KX3 in the same way the K3s was a replacement for the K3. So I'm thinking your assessment isn't exactly fair.

Pass the Flavor-Aide, please.

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: [hidden email]




> On Jun 5, 2016, at 12:47 PM, Gee <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> We have seen a remake of the K3 in the form of the K3s. Now we see the remake of the KX3 in the form of the KX2. So when are we going to see something really new from Elecraft? Surely the possibilities have not been exhausted. Touch screen GUI, VHF/UHF exclusive transceiver, 1.5 KW amp and tuner, new modes (is amateur radio video dead?). A great American company could be even greater by expanding it's product line with new things, not variations on the same thing.
>
> Sent from my iPad
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Re: New products

Phil Wheeler-2
In reply to this post by dennis rosenbalm
Gee,

So far Elecraft has done a good job of providing
new products with great support for which there is
an ample mainstream market -- a good business
model.  And focusing on products for which there
is a good market is important.

Amateur radio video: How big would that market
be?  Ditto for VHF/UHF exclusive transceiver,
though that might go further than your video
suggestion.

And I believe the 1.5 kW amp/tuner topic was
discussed extensively and conclusively here at
some time in the past 12 months.

Sure, new products are always welcome. But
companies have failed by producing new products
for which no market materializes. And, first and
foremost, I want Elecraft to be around for another
17 years!

73, Phil W7OX

On 6/5/16 9:47 AM, Gee wrote:
> We have seen a remake of the K3 in the form of the K3s. Now we see the remake of the KX3 in the form of the KX2. So when are we going to see something really new from Elecraft? Surely the possibilities have not been exhausted. Touch screen GUI, VHF/UHF exclusive transceiver, 1.5 KW amp and tuner, new modes (is amateur radio video dead?). A great American company could be even greater by expanding it's product line with new things, not variations on the same thing.
>
> Sent from my iPad

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Re: New products

Buddy Brannan
Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch screen GUI? If that's what counts as innovative, hey, where'd I put my club? Maybe behind that rock in my cave.

--
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Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: [hidden email]




> On Jun 5, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Gee,
>
> So far Elecraft has done a good job of providing new products with great support for which there is an ample mainstream market -- a good business model.  And focusing on products for which there is a good market is important.
>
> Amateur radio video: How big would that market be?  Ditto for VHF/UHF exclusive transceiver, though that might go further than your video suggestion.
>
> And I believe the 1.5 kW amp/tuner topic was discussed extensively and conclusively here at some time in the past 12 months.
>
> Sure, new products are always welcome. But companies have failed by producing new products for which no market materializes. And, first and foremost, I want Elecraft to be around for another 17 years!
>
> 73, Phil W7OX
>
> On 6/5/16 9:47 AM, Gee wrote:
>> We have seen a remake of the K3 in the form of the K3s. Now we see the remake of the KX3 in the form of the KX2. So when are we going to see something really new from Elecraft? Surely the possibilities have not been exhausted. Touch screen GUI, VHF/UHF exclusive transceiver, 1.5 KW amp and tuner, new modes (is amateur radio video dead?). A great American company could be even greater by expanding it's product line with new things, not variations on the same thing.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>
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Re: New products

Tony G6GLP
Hi All,
I thought I might put my oar in on this; New products need a market is
true and trying to second guess it is another story.

How would I go about developing a new product? I believe that we need to
see a gap in the market since we are not going to create a new market
like texting. The size of the addressable customer base needs to be
large enough to support the development cost. One thing that many people
see as improvement is the touch screen, while I support development in
this area it is not core functionality to our hobby (can I see the flack
coming on that?). The KX2 and K-POD are good examples of pushing the new
product while building on current development ( no I dont have an inside
view of the products but it stands to reason). Who was it that said
there are many Japanese VHF txcvrs? The latest trend is into the digital
coms so something in that area maybe the next thing but I would
recommend an open source approach to the digital coms to get others
helping with the future development of repeater type multi channel things.
I would personally be more interested in an integrated larger HF amp or
even a combiner to use say three KPA500 to achieve the higher output.
If my fantasy radio was developed it would be quantum based system that
would allow you call through other dimensions over vast distances with
out any propagation delay. Maybe in a few thousand years :-)

73 de Tony G6GLP
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Re: New products

Phil Wheeler-2
Good discussion, Tony.

Re "If my fantasy radio was developed it would be
quantum based system that would allow you call
through other dimensions over vast distances with
out any propagation delay." I'd settle for an
advancement which let me work you from California
running 5 Watts to a one meter indoor antenna and
no counterpoise -- during the low part of the
sunspot cycle :-)

73, Phil W7OX

On 6/5/16 11:28 AM, Tony G6GLP wrote:

> Hi All,
> I thought I might put my oar in on this; New
> products need a market is true and trying to
> second guess it is another story.
>
> How would I go about developing a new product? I
> believe that we need to see a gap in the market
> since we are not going to create a new market
> like texting. The size of the addressable
> customer base needs to be large enough to
> support the development cost. One thing that
> many people see as improvement is the touch
> screen, while I support development in this area
> it is not core functionality to our hobby (can I
> see the flack coming on that?). The KX2 and
> K-POD are good examples of pushing the new
> product while building on current development (
> no I dont have an inside view of the products
> but it stands to reason). Who was it that said
> there are many Japanese VHF txcvrs? The latest
> trend is into the digital coms so something in
> that area maybe the next thing but I would
> recommend an open source approach to the digital
> coms to get others helping with the future
> development of repeater type multi channel things.
> I would personally be more interested in an
> integrated larger HF amp or even a combiner to
> use say three KPA500 to achieve the higher output.
> If my fantasy radio was developed it would be
> quantum based system that would allow you call
> through other dimensions over vast distances
> with out any propagation delay. Maybe in a few
> thousand years :-)
>
> 73 de Tony G6GLP

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Re: New products

Rick WA6NHC-2
But if it's truly quantum, which reality YOU would be working whom?


On 6/5/2016 11:48 AM, Phil Wheeler wrote:

> Good discussion, Tony.
>
> Re "If my fantasy radio was developed it would be quantum based system
> that would allow you call through other dimensions over vast distances
> with out any propagation delay." I'd settle for an advancement which
> let me work you from California running 5 Watts to a one meter indoor
> antenna and no counterpoise -- during the low part of the sunspot
> cycle :-)
>
> 73, Phil W7OX
>
> On 6/5/16 11:28 AM, Tony G6GLP wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> I thought I might put my oar in on this; New products need a market
>> is true and trying to second guess it is another story.
>>
>> How would I go about developing a new product? I believe that we need
>> to see a gap in the market since we are not going to create a new
>> market like texting. The size of the addressable customer base needs
>> to be large enough to support the development cost. One thing that
>> many people see as improvement is the touch screen, while I support
>> development in this area it is not core functionality to our hobby
>> (can I see the flack coming on that?). The KX2 and K-POD are good
>> examples of pushing the new product while building on current
>> development ( no I dont have an inside view of the products but it
>> stands to reason). Who was it that said there are many Japanese VHF
>> txcvrs? The latest trend is into the digital coms so something in
>> that area maybe the next thing but I would recommend an open source
>> approach to the digital coms to get others helping with the future
>> development of repeater type multi channel things.
>> I would personally be more interested in an integrated larger HF amp
>> or even a combiner to use say three KPA500 to achieve the higher output.
>> If my fantasy radio was developed it would be quantum based system
>> that would allow you call through other dimensions over vast
>> distances with out any propagation delay. Maybe in a few thousand
>> years :-)
>>
>> 73 de Tony G6GLP
>
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Re: New products

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
In reply to this post by Buddy Brannan
A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future
upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things on
and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally released.

Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more
flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.

I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's
really time to lighten up, folks.

Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of
"empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the
firmware grows to need them.

On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch


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Re: New products

Buddy Brannan
Lighten up, you say? I don't know...I sort of like having radios I can actually use. Unless said touch screen will also come with some sort of spoken interface, (they haven't, so far), I guess eventually I get to look for a new hobby if that's where we're all going. And really, with the aging ham population and the sight loss that sometimes comes with said aging population, guess a lot of those guys are gonna be screwed, too. Sounds like a great idea to me.

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: [hidden email]




> On Jun 5, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally released.
>
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's really time to lighten up, folks.
>
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the firmware grows to need them.
>
> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: New products

Josh Fiden
In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
Why pay for an expensive, low volume touch screen when most of us carry very nice ones with us?

Write an iOS and/or Android app radio interface. You could accomplish most of this with the existing hardware with the addition of a smart dongle that includes RS232 and BLE connectivity.

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device (& K3 interface)

> On Jun 5, 2016, at 12:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally released.
>
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's really time to lighten up, folks.
>
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the firmware grows to need them.
>>

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Re: New products

Don Wilhelm
In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
Lynn,

Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for
blind operators.
Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios
with those blind operators particularly in mind.
A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future
> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things
> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally
> released.
>
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more
> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's
> really time to lighten up, folks.
>
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of
> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the
> firmware grows to need them.
>
> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the
>> touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Re: New products

N5GE
Don,

I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen
capability the manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize
the error of their ways.  Hopfully they would still have enough
capital to revert to the original design and fire the person
responsible for the change.

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:

>Lynn,
>
>Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for
>blind operators.
>Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios
>with those blind operators particularly in mind.
>A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>
>On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future
>> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things
>> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally
>> released.
>>
>> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more
>> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>>
>> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's
>> really time to lighten up, folks.
>>
>> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of
>> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the
>> firmware grows to need them.
>>
>> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the
>>> touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
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Re: New products

Buddy Brannan
Only if it's Elecraft. Clearly this isn't the case with Yaecomwoodlincotec. Well, at least a couple of those, anyway.

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: [hidden email]




> On Jun 5, 2016, at 4:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Don,
>
> I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen
> capability the manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize
> the error of their ways.  Hopfully they would still have enough
> capital to revert to the original design and fire the person
> responsible for the change.
>
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> Lynn,
>>
>> Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for
>> blind operators.
>> Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios
>> with those blind operators particularly in mind.
>> A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>>> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future
>>> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things
>>> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally
>>> released.
>>>
>>> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more
>>> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>>>
>>> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's
>>> really time to lighten up, folks.
>>>
>>> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of
>>> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the
>>> firmware grows to need them.
>>>
>>> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>>>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the
>>>> touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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>
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Re: New products

Kevin Stover
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
I can speak directly to that Don.

Three years ago I had and accident and detached both retinas.
Six eye surgeries later and I am 20/80 in the left eye and 20/50-40
(depending on the day) in the right. I am legally blind. None of that is
reversible with anything you can do at the front of the eye. The damage
was in the back.
I can't use my K2/100 because it needs an alignment that I don't think I
can see well enough to pull off. I was trying to add fixed audio out to
the rig when I had my accident. I have one of the last NØSS boards for
such somewhere.

Ham Radio moving to a GUI interface would be the end of my Ham Radio hobby.
I work with the aid of some very expensive gadgets and software designed
to magnify the screen.
Zoomtext from AI Squared has been a real blessing. The Linux community
on the other hand has been a major disappointment. Lets just say
accessibility is not on the Linux fan boy top ten list of improvements.
We need yet another scripting language, chat client, window manager,
etc.... Accessibility just isn't sexy or a good resume fluffer.

The only way I use a P3 or PX3 is the SVGA card in the P3 and a 24"
monitor, and the I/Q output into a laptop/sound card running NaP3 from
the PX3.

I applaud Elecraft for embracing the accessibility mantel hope to high
heck they don't accede to the noisy minority.

On 6/5/2016 2:37 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Lynn,
>
> Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for
> blind operators.
> Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios
> with those blind operators particularly in mind.
> A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future
>> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things
>> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally
>> released.
>>
>> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more
>> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>>
>> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's
>> really time to lighten up, folks.
>>
>> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of
>> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the
>> firmware grows to need them.
>>
>> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the
>>> touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>


--
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AC0H
ARRL
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SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: New products

Jim Finan
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
I made my annual pilgrimage to the nearest Ham store (3 hours drive) and saw a bunch of very pretty equipment. 

However, I'm not going to ditch my Elecraft gear any time soon. 

Touchscreens have some advantages, but there are a number of trade-offs. Reliability (I remember problems with the FTDX5000 displays), ruggedness ‎, etc. Also seem to take more power to run the bells and whistles. 

There could be a couple of solutions to their use by sight-impaired Hams‎. One would be voice recognition software. Like Siri or Cortana - how about 'Ellie'?

Development costs would be pretty steep and we all know how wonderful the voice recognition software can be...

Another idea would be to use a 'Super' K-pod/K-nob and/or something like the Genovation keyboards (mentioned recently on the reflector). That would be a much more simple solution. It could have custom keycaps with Braille characters on them. 

Not too many, but maybe 12-24? That interface could be used on multiple radios (a bunch of speculation about that regarding the K-pod recently)‎. USB or something else to plug in. I'm not wild about wireless as that's one more battery to deal with. 

BTW, Touchscreens don't necessarily need to be proprietary. I have a couple that are generic with my Beaglebone that seem to work ok‎. Nice toy but not necessary. 

Not sure how practical these ideas are...

73,

Jim
Jim Finan
AB4AC 
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
  Original Message  
From: Don Wilhelm
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 3:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Reply To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New products

Lynn,

Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for
blind operators.
Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios
with those blind operators particularly in mind.
A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future
> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things
> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally
> released.
>
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more
> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's
> really time to lighten up, folks.
>
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of
> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the
> firmware grows to need them.
>
> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the
>> touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Re: New products

John Kramer
In reply to this post by N5GE
Ha, Elecraft needs to progress at some stage, or get left behind.

Touch screen UI is and has been extensively used - 3 billion touch screen smart phones
out there, 1.2 billion touch screen tablets. I can see you all reaching for your keyboards
to protest that phones and tablets are not the same thing. Well, touch screen UI have
also moved over to commercial products, the military and airline pilots also use touch screen
UI communication devices. If they are good enough to be used on commercial aircraft
and in military applications, then it sure is good enough for ham radio.
Touch screen UI panels having become so prolific, that they have dropped the cost enormously,
resolution is picture sharp and reliability is extremely good.
Touch screens have huge potential, and almost unlimited versatility. If you need more knobs
or buttons on your rig, due to new features having been added……no problem with a touch screen.
Just a firmware update to add a knob, button, slider or meter onto the screen.
The problem with conventional rigs, is you run out of physical knobs and buttons when features
are added to the radio. I see this in my KX3 - some knobs have three functions, and to try and
remember what each knobs second or third function does, becomes difficult.

Food for thought :-)

73
John




On 5 Jun 2016, at 10:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <[hidden email]> wrote:

Don,

I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen
capability the manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize
the error of their ways.  Hopfully they would still have enough
capital to revert to the original design and fire the person
responsible for the change.

On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:

> Lynn,
>
> Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for
> blind operators.
> Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their radios
> with those blind operators particularly in mind.
> A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future
>> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things
>> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally
>> released.
>>
>> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more
>> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>>
>> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's
>> really time to lighten up, folks.
>>
>> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of
>> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the
>> firmware grows to need them.
>>
>> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the
>>> touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Re: New products

Jerry Moore
Adding $100 or more to add a touchscreen ui to a radio provides very little value in my view, is silly. The radio cost to value ratio is very low (meaning the value is high). The only exception I can see would be integrating the P3 as an option (hopefully enhancing with a micro computer/ssd for logging, digital, extended macros...etc, basically what I'm doing now with a raspberry pi).

So that is if the cost is comparable to getting the P3.

Without the features of the P3 integrated; who changes settings so often that the included programmable macro buttons aren't enough?


On June 5, 2016 4:35:26 PM EDT, John <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Ha, Elecraft needs to progress at some stage, or get left behind.
>
>Touch screen UI is and has been extensively used - 3 billion touch
>screen smart phones
>out there, 1.2 billion touch screen tablets. I can see you all reaching
>for your keyboards
>to protest that phones and tablets are not the same thing. Well, touch
>screen UI have
>also moved over to commercial products, the military and airline pilots
>also use touch screen
>UI communication devices. If they are good enough to be used on
>commercial aircraft
>and in military applications, then it sure is good enough for ham
>radio.
>Touch screen UI panels having become so prolific, that they have
>dropped the cost enormously,
>resolution is picture sharp and reliability is extremely good.
>Touch screens have huge potential, and almost unlimited versatility. If
>you need more knobs
>or buttons on your rig, due to new features having been added……no
>problem with a touch screen.
>Just a firmware update to add a knob, button, slider or meter onto the
>screen.
>The problem with conventional rigs, is you run out of physical knobs
>and buttons when features
>are added to the radio. I see this in my KX3 - some knobs have three
>functions, and to try and
>remember what each knobs second or third function does, becomes
>difficult.
>
>Food for thought :-)
>
>73
>John
>
>
>
>
>On 5 Jun 2016, at 10:13 PM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE <[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>
>Don,
>
>I suspect that having redesigned a rig with touch screen
>capability the manufacturer would, in a short period of time realize
>the error of their ways.  Hopfully they would still have enough
>capital to revert to the original design and fire the person
>responsible for the change.
>
>On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 15:37:42 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> Lynn,
>>
>> Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for
>> blind operators.
>> Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their
>radios
>> with those blind operators particularly in mind.
>> A GUI interface means nothing to those who cannot see it.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 6/5/2016 3:16 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>>> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future
>>> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things
>
>>> on and off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally
>>> released.
>>>
>>> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more
>>> flexible than a silk-screened metal panel.
>>>
>>> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's
>>> really time to lighten up, folks.
>>>
>>> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of
>>> "empty" buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the
>
>>> firmware grows to need them.
>>>
>>> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>>>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the
>>>> touch screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>______________________________________________________________
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>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>______________________________________________________________
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>
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Re: New products

Bill Frantz
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm
An idea just off the top of my head: Put a physical grid over
the touch screen so the blind OP can find the buttons. A grid of
2mm x 2mm bars separated into 15-20mm areas might work well.
Have the radio speak the status of the button when it is
pressed. If you have two-level press sensitivity, like the new
Apple MacBooks, then you can use one level as a request to
report the status and the other as a request to change the
status (press the button). Rectangular areas could be used as
sliders for adjustments etc. (Note that for blind usage, you
don't need a screen. A touch pad alone will do.

One of the great things about amateur radio is that people with
significant handicaps can still play. One of the board members
of my club is blind. Other members bring him to meetings, and it
is always nice to hear his voice on the air. People who can't
hear can still be expert digital operators. etc.

Elecraft is to be applauded for their commitment to accessibility.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 6/5/16 at 12:37 PM, [hidden email] (Don Wilhelm) wrote:

>Please tell us how a touchscreen interface can enhance usability for blind operators.
>Elecraft has made a commitment for such usability for all their
>radios with those blind operators particularly in mind.
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Re: New products

Eric J
In reply to this post by Buddy Brannan
It's always interesting to hear list members' idea of new amateur radio
products. I get the idea that the ham market is driven by the needs of
megabuck contesters and DX'ers, many of whom are now legally
incorporated entities! I'm obviously not in tune with an amateur market
that sees a combiner for three $2000+ linears as a viable product. Maybe
the ham market has always been driven by these folks, the race car
drivers in our sport with factory sponsorship, whose wants and needs
then trickle down to the rest of us as rear view mirrors and racing
stripes for our family SUV.

I have no advice for Elecraft which already produces things that are
beyond my needs in this hobby. But consider this. I worked the Alabama
QSO Party this weekend just for fun.  I did all my tuning/searching with
my Drake 2B, then "pounced" (a word that is hyperbole for what I do in a
contest) with the K2/100. There was nothing I could hear on the K2 that
I couldn't hear on the 2B. In fact, I was only interested in mobiles
running AL counties, the weaker stations in the contest.

Granted this 50 year old radio suffers a number of inadequacies that I
would no longer stand for, however, it is still capable of performing
the duties that MOST actual everyday hams require of a receiver. It
would not make it through the first lap as a race car, but it still does
a remarkable job as a daily ride. And, the Drake 2B is still more FUN.
It wouldn't be enhanced with a touch screen instead of knobs/switches
and neither would anything else meant for every day hamming.

Eric

KE6US


On 6/5/2016 12:27 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
> Lighten up, you say? I don't know...I sort of like having radios I can actually use. Unless said touch screen will also come with some sort of spoken interface, (they haven't, so far), I guess eventually I get to look for a new hobby if that's where we're all going. And really, with the aging ham population and the sight loss that sometimes comes with said aging population, guess a lot of those guys are gonna be screwed, too. Sounds like a great idea to me.
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: New products

Ken G Kopp
In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
I'll not be buying a radio with any form of "touch screen" ... ain't gonna
happen.  (:-))

73

K0PP
On Jun 5, 2016 13:16, "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> A radio with only physical knobs and buttons severely limits future
> upgradability, and leads to crazy button combinations to turn things on and
> off that weren't even a dream when the radio was originally released.
>
> Touch screens may not be always convenient, but they're much more flexible
> than a silk-screened metal panel.
>
> I realize that knobs and buttons are a religion for some, but it's really
> time to lighten up, folks.
>
> Either that or for Elecraft to release a rig with a whole bunch of "empty"
> buttons and sell stickers to update the front panel when the firmware grows
> to need them.
>
> On 6/5/2016 10:18 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>
>> Also, can we pllease, for the love of all that is holy, not do the touch
>> screen GUI? At least, not an exclusively touch
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
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