OT Learning Morse anew

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
26 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

OT Learning Morse anew

Jim Sr Sturges
I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.

Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I hope
you will share?

To complete the OT-ness of this msg, I recently completed the QRP Labs
Ultimate WSPR/QRSS kit and re-learned the joys of soldering iron burns,
again. Certainly nothing wrong with Hans' excellent kits, and the price is
amazing for the functionality, design, and quality.

Then I installed the PAE heat sink end panels on my KX2. The latter is not
for the faint of heart! I STRONGLY recommend the somewhat buried hint in
PAE's instructions to remove the AT board before attaching the PA
transistors to the heat sink. Tried it the other way and re-discovered that
my micromanipulation skills are right up there with my CW -- maybe better,
which is damned depressing.

So, any help mastering Morse?

Thanks in advance and 73,

Jim N3SZ

--
Jim Sturges, N3SZ
Amateur Radio operators do it with frequency.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
dgb
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

dgb
Yes, the best is

http://www.cwops.org/cwacademy.html

73 Dwight NS9I


On 6/11/2017 5:25 PM, Jim Sr Sturges wrote:

> I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.
>
> Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I hope
> you will share?
>
> To complete the OT-ness of this msg, I recently completed the QRP Labs
> Ultimate WSPR/QRSS kit and re-learned the joys of soldering iron burns,
> again. Certainly nothing wrong with Hans' excellent kits, and the price is
> amazing for the functionality, design, and quality.
>
> Then I installed the PAE heat sink end panels on my KX2. The latter is not
> for the faint of heart! I STRONGLY recommend the somewhat buried hint in
> PAE's instructions to remove the AT board before attaching the PA
> transistors to the heat sink. Tried it the other way and re-discovered that
> my micromanipulation skills are right up there with my CW -- maybe better,
> which is damned depressing.
>
> So, any help mastering Morse?
>
> Thanks in advance and 73,
>
> Jim N3SZ
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

VA3ON
In reply to this post by Jim Sr Sturges
Jim
I'll endorse your experience with the installation PAE's excellent heatsink for the KX2.
I jumped into that operation with a Swiss Army knife and a set of forceps at the hotel while at Dayton hamvention.
Holding on the two washers, nut and bolt simultaneously in a confined space is playing "Twister" with your fingers!
That said, I love the kit - combined with the Lexan cover, the kit is both functional and attractive.
Fun to get an installation challenge from time to time!!
/Rod VA3ON

On Jun 11, 2017, at 18:25, Jim Sr Sturges <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.

Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I hope
you will share?

To complete the OT-ness of this msg, I recently completed the QRP Labs
Ultimate WSPR/QRSS kit and re-learned the joys of soldering iron burns,
again. Certainly nothing wrong with Hans' excellent kits, and the price is
amazing for the functionality, design, and quality.

Then I installed the PAE heat sink end panels on my KX2. The latter is not
for the faint of heart! I STRONGLY recommend the somewhat buried hint in
PAE's instructions to remove the AT board before attaching the PA
transistors to the heat sink. Tried it the other way and re-discovered that
my micromanipulation skills are right up there with my CW -- maybe better,
which is damned depressing.

So, any help mastering Morse?

Thanks in advance and 73,

Jim N3SZ

--
Jim Sturges, N3SZ
Amateur Radio operators do it with frequency.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

K7TV
In reply to this post by Jim Sr Sturges
I learned morse by copying from 78 rpm phongraph records, gradually
increasing the speed, but I believe modern methods based of Farnsworth are
far superior.

My club asked me to think about how the club could conduct cw training. I
searched for resources online, and was very impressed when I found the cwops
program some time ago. Students must participate in a series of lessons
where they each both receive and transmit, always at 20 wpm, but with extra
space between characters a la Farnsworth. 3 courses are conducted each year,
via Skype, with students from around the globe. You can easily find that out
online, but here is some additional detail. I asked cwops if they would let
me teach their curriculum locally to our club members, with a time schedule
of our own choosing, and over an FM repeater rather than Skype. The answer
was yes. So, if their schedule doesn't fit you, do ask them, and maybe you
can get something going with your club. Neither instructor nor students need
to be or become cwops members. So far, nothing has come of these ideas in my
club. The requirements that students obtain paddles and keyers suitable for
sending at 20 wpm, and commit to attend the full series of lessons, may be a
strumbling block. Nevertheless I think the program looks great, and I would
be very interested to hear about the experiences of others that have
actually used the cwops program.

Another thought: For copy practice, you want to listen to speeds faster than
what you are currently comfortable with. That can be frustrating if there is
no way to compare what you caught with the full and correct text. Here is a
way to get that access to the corect answer. Participate in a contest such
as Field Day, where a given station's exchange is the same for every qso.
Find a station using the desired speed that is running CQ on a frequency.
Listen to a few of his qso's until you have copied his callsign and exchange
information (something like 3A SFL, which stands for class 3A in the Section
of South Florida; you should already know the corresponding info for your
own station). Once you are at that point, give him a call when he is done
with a qso. You know that it is time to call him when he sends something
like QRZ or FD or CONTEST. Don't send his callsign, only your own, and don't
bother with K or BK or variations thereof. It is ok to send at a lower speed
as long as you don't send any unneeded info in addition to your callsign.
Once you hear him send your callsign, send your own exchange information.
Etc.  Repeats are often requested by AGN (send it all again) or CLS (send
your class) or SEC (send your section). The qso is over when both stations
have sent R or QSL or some equivalent. The whole qso is so short that you
don't need to send your own callsign again at the end; when you sent it at
the beginning, that also counts as the end. The fact that you can take
plenty of time to copy his information, and that the information is short
and follows a predictable pattern, makes you comfortable communicating at a
speed higher than your normal capability, and meanwhile your brain is
getting used to the sound of high speed morse.

73,
Erik K7TV

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of dgb
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 3:37 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

Yes, the best is

http://www.cwops.org/cwacademy.html

73 Dwight NS9I


On 6/11/2017 5:25 PM, Jim Sr Sturges wrote:

> I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.
>
> Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I
> hope you will share?
>
> To complete the OT-ness of this msg, I recently completed the QRP Labs
> Ultimate WSPR/QRSS kit and re-learned the joys of soldering iron
> burns, again. Certainly nothing wrong with Hans' excellent kits, and
> the price is amazing for the functionality, design, and quality.
>
> Then I installed the PAE heat sink end panels on my KX2. The latter is
> not for the faint of heart! I STRONGLY recommend the somewhat buried
> hint in PAE's instructions to remove the AT board before attaching the
> PA transistors to the heat sink. Tried it the other way and
> re-discovered that my micromanipulation skills are right up there with
> my CW -- maybe better, which is damned depressing.
>
> So, any help mastering Morse?
>
> Thanks in advance and 73,
>
> Jim N3SZ
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

Rick M0LEP-2
In reply to this post by Jim Sr Sturges
I only allowed myself to buy my KX3 after I'd completed a number of CW
QSOs. I stumbled through most of them, but I confidently expected the
KX3 would provide me with an incentive to improve my Morse, and I'd get
better at it quite quickly. It didn't quite work out that way, though.
I've had my KX3 since February 2013, and I'm still mostly stumbling
along at sub-12wpm.

I don't think there is any such thing as "The Perfect Method". I was
sold on "Koch" (with a side order of "Farnsworth"), which some folk
swear is the One True Way to learn Morse, but the Koch incremental
approach turned out to be a complete waste of time for me.

I suspect good teaching in a face-to-face class would probably have
worked a lot better, but that sort of thing is pretty much impossible to
find these days. The CWOps courses seem to get quite a bit of praise,
and while they're not quite face-to-face (as they rely on something like
Skype) they are at least led by real people rather than machines. Their
main drawback is that they seem to have a waiting list well over a year
long.

At the end of the day, I expect improving your Morse mostly comes down
to practice, practice, practice. Having that practice guided by an
experienced teacher would probably help a lot. If you can, find some
local experienced Morse mentors, listen to their advice, and then
practice, practice, practice...

....and try to get out and operate at whatever speed you can manage.

On Sun 11 Jun Jim Sr Sturges wrote:
> I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.
>
> Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I hope
> you will share?

--
73, Rick, M0LEP   (KX3 #3281)
The Alchemist's Guild is opposite the Gambler's Guild. Usually.
Sometimes it's above it, or below it, or falling in bits around it.
        -- (Terry Pratchett, Men At Arms)

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
Without going into too much detail (or extending this OT thread too
much!), the way to get over the sub-12 wpm "hump" is to learn to copy
short words and combinations of letters ("ing" "the" "out" etc.) as a
unit, and not one character at a time.

One way to practice this is to use the well-known RUFZxp program
<http://www.rufzxp.net/>
and to tell it to use a list of such short words and pieces of words in
place of callsigns. Such lists are available (google "rufzxp word list")
already prepared. Then you set it to go a little faster than you can
comfortably copy, and listen. When you recognize a word or piece of one,
you can type it in. But wait until you've recognized the whole thing
before starting to type.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
(A CWops CWA instructor)
On 12 Jun 2017 12:59, Rick M0LEP wrote:

> I only allowed myself to buy my KX3 after I'd completed a number of CW
> QSOs. I stumbled through most of them, but I confidently expected the
> KX3 would provide me with an incentive to improve my Morse, and I'd get
> better at it quite quickly. It didn't quite work out that way, though.
> I've had my KX3 since February 2013, and I'm still mostly stumbling
> along at sub-12wpm.
>
> I don't think there is any such thing as "The Perfect Method". I was
> sold on "Koch" (with a side order of "Farnsworth"), which some folk
> swear is the One True Way to learn Morse, but the Koch incremental
> approach turned out to be a complete waste of time for me.
>
> I suspect good teaching in a face-to-face class would probably have
> worked a lot better, but that sort of thing is pretty much impossible to
> find these days. The CWOps courses seem to get quite a bit of praise,
> and while they're not quite face-to-face (as they rely on something like
> Skype) they are at least led by real people rather than machines. Their
> main drawback is that they seem to have a waiting list well over a year
> long.
>
> At the end of the day, I expect improving your Morse mostly comes down
> to practice, practice, practice. Having that practice guided by an
> experienced teacher would probably help a lot. If you can, find some
> local experienced Morse mentors, listen to their advice, and then
> practice, practice, practice...
>
> ....and try to get out and operate at whatever speed you can manage.
>
> On Sun 11 Jun Jim Sr Sturges wrote:
>> I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.
>>
>> Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I hope
>> you will share?
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

Kevin - K4VD
​I learned code by memorizing 5 wpm and then getting on the air and having
as many contacts as I could. Nothing fancy, no coddling. Just do it.

73,
Kev

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

Scott Manthe-2
How in the world is someone learning something in a way that most suits
them "coddling?" People learn things differently, even Morse. Finding
the way that best suits someone is not coddling them, it's helping them
to learn efficiently.

Scott N9AA


On 6/12/17 8:18 AM, Kevin - K4VD wrote:

> ​I learned code by memorizing 5 wpm and then getting on the air and having
> as many contacts as I could. Nothing fancy, no coddling. Just do it.
>
> 73,
> Kev
> ​
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]


______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

marvwheeler
In reply to this post by Jim Sr Sturges
I think there are three factors necessary to learning CW. All are important
and they are:

 

1. Desire
2. Patience
3. Persistence

 

There is no other easy or quick way to achieve your goal.

 

Marv

KG7V

 

K3S, KPA500, KANT3m P3

 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

Kevin - K4VD
In reply to this post by Scott Manthe-2
Hello Scott. Out of all that you only quote the word coddling? I didn't say
anything about how someone else should learn Morse code (other than maybe
Just do it). I said how I learned it. Nothing fancy, nose to the
grindstone, learn by doing. It's just Morse code. It is not a new language.
It is a substitute for letters in our existing language. There's 26
letters, 10 numbers and a handful of prosigns. Not terribly complicated.

You seem to need a cause to fight for but it's not here. People do learn
things differently and I shared how I learned. That can't be changed.

Kev K4VD


On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Scott Manthe <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> How in the world is someone learning something in a way that most suits
> them "coddling?" People learn things differently, even Morse. Finding the
> way that best suits someone is not coddling them, it's helping them to
> learn efficiently.
>
> Scott N9AA
>
>
> On 6/12/17 8:18 AM, Kevin - K4VD wrote:
>
>> ​I learned code by memorizing 5 wpm and then getting on the air and having
>> as many contacts as I could. Nothing fancy, no coddling. Just do it.
>>
>> 73,
>> Kev
>> ​
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

Jim Allen
In reply to this post by Jim Sr Sturges
One approach is to expand one's vocabulary.  You recognize CQ at almost any speed, because it is so familiar, as well as most "Q" signals, RST, BT, BK, etc.  

Hardly anyone needs to copy 5 letter groups these days like we did as Navy radiomen.

One fellow has provided this:

http://www.hamradioqrp.com/2016/11/get-used-to-common-stuff.html

73 Jim Allen W6OGC

Sent from my iPad
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

wb6rse1
Farnsworth.

http://www.justlearnmorsecode.com/farnsworth.html

73 - Steve WB6RSE
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

KENT TRIMBLE
In reply to this post by Scott Manthe-2
I thoroughly agree with Kev about "getting on the air."

I teach two and sometimes three Morse Code classes every Saturday
morning.  The students all KNOW the code.  They can accurately copy 10
WPM and above, and can send quite decently.  But no matter how much I
encourage, cajole, or "coddle," they resist my pleas to get "on the air"
for all kinds of reasons, but primarily two -- either no one comes back
to them or all they can find are speed demons who won't slow down.

The worse thing the FCC ever did for amateur radio (in my opinion) was
the elimination of the non-renewable Novice license with the concomitant
doing away of the Novice sub-bands.  Those were safe-harbors for
neophytes to find each other, work each other, and improve each other
without feeling intimidated.  The non-renewable aspect served to
motivate those who were desirous of deeper involvement in
communications, and to give a graceful exit to those who weren't.

All the computer programs and well-structured academies in-the-world are
simply no substitute for good old-fashioned one-on-one Morse Code work
between two eager and nervous operators.  That's how you learn best and
how you learn quickest. And an even greater dividend is that you learn
about propagation, procedures, tuning skills, how receivers work, signal
paths, solar effects, antenna fundamentals, and a host of other things
that can't be learned on a laptop, no matter how well the application is
executed or the content designed.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV



On 6/12/2017 9:43 AM, Scott Manthe wrote:

> How in the world is someone learning something in a way that most
> suits them "coddling?" People learn things differently, even Morse.
> Finding the way that best suits someone is not coddling them, it's
> helping them to learn efficiently.
>
> Scott N9AA
>
>
> On 6/12/17 8:18 AM, Kevin - K4VD wrote:
>> ​I learned code by memorizing 5 wpm and then getting on the air and
>> having
>> as many contacts as I could. Nothing fancy, no coddling. Just do it.
>>
>> 73,
>> Kev
>> ​

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

wlbrooks
Amen, Kent.

Bill, KE5OG


On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 10:43 AM, KENT TRIMBLE <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I thoroughly agree with Kev about "getting on the air."
>
> I teach two and sometimes three Morse Code classes every Saturday
> morning.  The students all KNOW the code.  They can accurately copy 10 WPM
> and above, and can send quite decently.  But no matter how much I
> encourage, cajole, or "coddle," they resist my pleas to get "on the air"
> for all kinds of reasons, but primarily two -- either no one comes back to
> them or all they can find are speed demons who won't slow down.
>
> The worse thing the FCC ever did for amateur radio (in my opinion) was the
> elimination of the non-renewable Novice license with the concomitant doing
> away of the Novice sub-bands.  Those were safe-harbors for neophytes to
> find each other, work each other, and improve each other without feeling
> intimidated.  The non-renewable aspect served to motivate those who were
> desirous of deeper involvement in communications, and to give a graceful
> exit to those who weren't.
>
> All the computer programs and well-structured academies in-the-world are
> simply no substitute for good old-fashioned one-on-one Morse Code work
> between two eager and nervous operators.  That's how you learn best and how
> you learn quickest. And an even greater dividend is that you learn about
> propagation, procedures, tuning skills, how receivers work, signal paths,
> solar effects, antenna fundamentals, and a host of other things that can't
> be learned on a laptop, no matter how well the application is executed or
> the content designed.
>
> 73,
>
> Kent  K9ZTV
>
>
>
> On 6/12/2017 9:43 AM, Scott Manthe wrote:
>
>> How in the world is someone learning something in a way that most suits
>> them "coddling?" People learn things differently, even Morse. Finding the
>> way that best suits someone is not coddling them, it's helping them to
>> learn efficiently.
>>
>> Scott N9AA
>>
>>
>> On 6/12/17 8:18 AM, Kevin - K4VD wrote:
>>
>>> ​I learned code by memorizing 5 wpm and then getting on the air and
>>> having
>>> as many contacts as I could. Nothing fancy, no coddling. Just do it.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Kev
>>> ​
>>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>



--
Bill Brooks
432-244-8863
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

Keith Hutt
In reply to this post by marvwheeler

That is the essence of learning CW in a nutshell.

Back in 1969 when i attended college to become a Merchant Navy RO, CW was a
function that had to mastered, no CW no job it was that simple.

22 people on the course from all walks of life. all with the dream of
becoming Radio Officers. No excuses of i cant do it etc, you had to learn.

Anyone can learn CW all it takes are the things listed by the previous
author, there is no magic about all it is is practice, practice and more
practice.

Anyway after about 6 months of CW every day Monday to Friday we were all at
the required speed of 25 WPM sending and receiving.

Some found it easier than others but everyone got their.

I suppose the ,main difference is simple you could pass the other 6 exams
but fail CW it was a complete fail, retake all the exams in 12 months time.
But when your future
life depends on it you put the effort in and pass.

So good luck to everyone learning CW, but it really is simple put the effort
in you will learn, speed comes with practice and more practice.


Regards

Keith G0TSH


-----Original Message-----
From: Marvin Wheeler
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 4:06 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

I think there are three factors necessary to learning CW. All are important
and they are:



1. Desire
2. Patience
3. Persistence



There is no other easy or quick way to achieve your goal.



Marv

KG7V



K3S, KPA500, KANT3m P3





---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

Fred Moore-2
In reply to this post by Rick M0LEP-2
I am convinced that the barrier most folks have is from bad habits that
allow you to unconsciously learn double and triple conversion in your head.

when you are slow..  hear the sound, count the elements, determine what
it means, then convert to writing..

I am 100% convinced that doing anything to fix that problem is the only
solution to the problem..

My real life story, which has been applied to multiple other people and
has fixed the problem in most cases..

Back in the mid 70es I was trying to break the 13 WPM barrier to get my
General License.. I was working several stations per night but not
getting anywhere with my speed..  A friend at work who was not a ham,
but taught CW in the Army finally heard from me enough and said "are you
free tonight and do you have a code practice oscillator"  I did so over
he came..

He grabbed a book from the shelf, handed me some paper and said..

I am going to transmit at 15WPM for the next 15 minutes.  I want to you
write each letter down, don't worry about the mistakes I don't care
about them..  I will not stop.

After the 15 minutes he took the paper and started writing down
letters...  He only wrote down the first letter I missed in a string
when done he said..

you are double translating in your head and there are 6 elements you
really don't know.  So after a cup of coffee, he sent me those 6 letters
for the next hour at 20 wpm, no writing only saying the letter out loud
as I heard them.  Spacing was also fast..  no farnsworth, don't even
think it existed them..  if I had it wrong he didn't say anything, he
just kept repeating the character till I had it correct then he went
on.   after a break, we then spent another hour doing the same thing
with all other elements and then he went home.

The next night he came over and I not only was at 13wpm but could write
at 18 wpm 100%.

then he said.. now get on the air, from now on you are only allowed to
write name, call, address if sent, otherwise copy in your head..    you
now know all elements of the code, if you are writing you are
translating from ear to mind to hand,  you do not want to translate at
all, anyone is capable of writing from memory without stopping to
translate..

problem fixed..  and have been enjoying CW since then..  I have used
this method about 10 times myself on other hams, and in all but one case
the problem was fixed...  

the moral..  listen to faster code than you need, and put down the
pencil and paper.. Fred

Fred Moore
email: [hidden email]
       [hidden email]
phone: 321-217-8699

On 6/12/17 5:59 AM, Rick M0LEP wrote:

> I only allowed myself to buy my KX3 after I'd completed a number of CW
> QSOs. I stumbled through most of them, but I confidently expected the
> KX3 would provide me with an incentive to improve my Morse, and I'd get
> better at it quite quickly. It didn't quite work out that way, though.
> I've had my KX3 since February 2013, and I'm still mostly stumbling
> along at sub-12wpm.
>
> I don't think there is any such thing as "The Perfect Method". I was
> sold on "Koch" (with a side order of "Farnsworth"), which some folk
> swear is the One True Way to learn Morse, but the Koch incremental
> approach turned out to be a complete waste of time for me.
>
> I suspect good teaching in a face-to-face class would probably have
> worked a lot better, but that sort of thing is pretty much impossible to
> find these days. The CWOps courses seem to get quite a bit of praise,
> and while they're not quite face-to-face (as they rely on something like
> Skype) they are at least led by real people rather than machines. Their
> main drawback is that they seem to have a waiting list well over a year
> long.
>
> At the end of the day, I expect improving your Morse mostly comes down
> to practice, practice, practice. Having that practice guided by an
> experienced teacher would probably help a lot. If you can, find some
> local experienced Morse mentors, listen to their advice, and then
> practice, practice, practice...
>
> ....and try to get out and operate at whatever speed you can manage.
>
> On Sun 11 Jun Jim Sr Sturges wrote:
>> I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.
>>
>> Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I hope
>> you will share?


______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

Doug Smith [W7KF]
In reply to this post by wlbrooks
I agree about getting on the air.  And, about the value of the old Novice class in providing a “safe harbor”.

When I got my novice ticket I went out and bought crystals for various frequencies on 80, 40 and 15 meters.  Frequencies were random and I had three on 80 meters — 3713, 3723 and 3741.  

It turned out that there was a small bunch of us who, unbeknownst to each other, had crystals on 3723.  We mostly were brand new licensees and soon became fast friends.  There was a guy in Sacramento, a gal near Portland, another gal near Spokane and myself in Montana.  We hung out together on 3723 each night, sometimes for hours.  Over the weeks and months, we all built up T/R switches and went QSK.  We all graduated to bugs and then electronic keyers, mostly homebrew and TO keyers.

We had been holding forth on 3723 for 8 or 9 months and one night a guy with a general call-sign and who we didn’t know broke in on us and told us we were being rude by operating in the Novice band and that we should clear out of there if we wanted to run at 40 WPM.  I QRS’d for the guy and replied that we would love to move but we were rock-bound Novices and couldn’t move and signed my WN7DMA call sign.

It was a real eye opener because we had never really thought about speed.  We knew we were going faster that we used to, needed keyers  and whatnot but hadn’t really thought much about it.  We were just a bunch of Novices, having fun on the radio.

So, the point of this rambling?  

Try to find some friends on the air who like to chew the rag and get on the air with them as often as possible.  A group of similar speed operators who won’t need to ask someone to QRS or feel like they’re imposing on someone to operate slowly.  The value of that is huge.  Friendship, brotherhood, and shared goals make it easy to overcome the angst and build speed and competence.  And, it’s fun!

It is unfortunate the old Novice bands are gone but I do hear lots of guys higher in the CW segments, lumbering along at 10 WPM.  Sometimes I get on and work one of them because I like to see them doing what they’re doing.  It takes some courage to jump on 20 meters and call CQ at 10 WPM..

One more thing.  Once you can copy 15 WPM (or so) loose the pencil or keyboard.  Start copying in your head.  CW then becomes a conversation and your speed will start to inch upward.  One day you’ll be clipping along at 30 WPM and not even thinking about it.  You’ll just be chatting with a friend..

73 and see you on the air!

Doug, W7KF
http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>



>
> On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 10:43 AM, KENT TRIMBLE <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>> I thoroughly agree with Kev about "getting on the air."
>>
>> I teach two and sometimes three Morse Code classes every Saturday
>> morning.  The students all KNOW the code.  They can accurately copy 10 WPM
>> and above, and can send quite decently.  But no matter how much I
>> encourage, cajole, or "coddle," they resist my pleas to get "on the air"
>> for all kinds of reasons, but primarily two -- either no one comes back to
>> them or all they can find are speed demons who won't slow down.
>>
>> The worse thing the FCC ever did for amateur radio (in my opinion) was the
>> elimination of the non-renewable Novice license with the concomitant doing
>> away of the Novice sub-bands.  Those were safe-harbors for neophytes to
>> find each other, work each other, and improve each other without feeling
>> intimidated.  The non-renewable aspect served to motivate those who were
>> desirous of deeper involvement in communications, and to give a graceful
>> exit to those who weren't.
>>
>> All the computer programs and well-structured academies in-the-world are
>> simply no substitute for good old-fashioned one-on-one Morse Code work
>> between two eager and nervous operators.  That's how you learn best and how
>> you learn quickest. And an even greater dividend is that you learn about
>> propagation, procedures, tuning skills, how receivers work, signal paths,
>> solar effects, antenna fundamentals, and a host of other things that can't
>> be learned on a laptop, no matter how well the application is executed or
>> the content designed.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Kent  K9ZTV
>>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

KENT TRIMBLE
Doug . . .

This is a super-great story!

You need to send it to QST for its "letters to the editor" page.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV



On 6/12/2017 12:03 PM, Doug Smith wrote:

> I agree about getting on the air.  And, about the value of the old Novice class in providing a “safe harbor”.
>
> When I got my novice ticket I went out and bought crystals for various frequencies on 80, 40 and 15 meters.  Frequencies were random and I had three on 80 meters — 3713, 3723 and 3741.
>
> It turned out that there was a small bunch of us who, unbeknownst to each other, had crystals on 3723.  We mostly were brand new licensees and soon became fast friends.  There was a guy in Sacramento, a gal near Portland, another gal near Spokane and myself in Montana.  We hung out together on 3723 each night, sometimes for hours.  Over the weeks and months, we all built up T/R switches and went QSK.  We all graduated to bugs and then electronic keyers, mostly homebrew and TO keyers.
>
> We had been holding forth on 3723 for 8 or 9 months and one night a guy with a general call-sign and who we didn’t know broke in on us and told us we were being rude by operating in the Novice band and that we should clear out of there if we wanted to run at 40 WPM.  I QRS’d for the guy and replied that we would love to move but we were rock-bound Novices and couldn’t move and signed my WN7DMA call sign.
>
> It was a real eye opener because we had never really thought about speed.  We knew we were going faster that we used to, needed keyers  and whatnot but hadn’t really thought much about it.  We were just a bunch of Novices, having fun on the radio.
>
> So, the point of this rambling?
>
> Try to find some friends on the air who like to chew the rag and get on the air with them as often as possible.  A group of similar speed operators who won’t need to ask someone to QRS or feel like they’re imposing on someone to operate slowly.  The value of that is huge.  Friendship, brotherhood, and shared goals make it easy to overcome the angst and build speed and competence.  And, it’s fun!
>
> It is unfortunate the old Novice bands are gone but I do hear lots of guys higher in the CW segments, lumbering along at 10 WPM.  Sometimes I get on and work one of them because I like to see them doing what they’re doing.  It takes some courage to jump on 20 meters and call CQ at 10 WPM..
>
> One more thing.  Once you can copy 15 WPM (or so) loose the pencil or keyboard.  Start copying in your head.  CW then becomes a conversation and your speed will start to inch upward.  One day you’ll be clipping along at 30 WPM and not even thinking about it.  You’ll just be chatting with a friend..
>
> 73 and see you on the air!
>
> Doug, W7KF
> http://www.w7kf.com <http://www.w7kf.com/>
>
>
>
>> On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 10:43 AM, KENT TRIMBLE <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>> I thoroughly agree with Kev about "getting on the air."
>>>
>>> I teach two and sometimes three Morse Code classes every Saturday
>>> morning.  The students all KNOW the code.  They can accurately copy 10 WPM
>>> and above, and can send quite decently.  But no matter how much I
>>> encourage, cajole, or "coddle," they resist my pleas to get "on the air"
>>> for all kinds of reasons, but primarily two -- either no one comes back to
>>> them or all they can find are speed demons who won't slow down.
>>>
>>> The worse thing the FCC ever did for amateur radio (in my opinion) was the
>>> elimination of the non-renewable Novice license with the concomitant doing
>>> away of the Novice sub-bands.  Those were safe-harbors for neophytes to
>>> find each other, work each other, and improve each other without feeling
>>> intimidated.  The non-renewable aspect served to motivate those who were
>>> desirous of deeper involvement in communications, and to give a graceful
>>> exit to those who weren't.
>>>
>>> All the computer programs and well-structured academies in-the-world are
>>> simply no substitute for good old-fashioned one-on-one Morse Code work
>>> between two eager and nervous operators.  That's how you learn best and how
>>> you learn quickest. And an even greater dividend is that you learn about
>>> propagation, procedures, tuning skills, how receivers work, signal paths,
>>> solar effects, antenna fundamentals, and a host of other things that can't
>>> be learned on a laptop, no matter how well the application is executed or
>>> the content designed.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Kent  K9ZTV
>>>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

KENT TRIMBLE
In reply to this post by Fred Moore-2
One caveat, Fred . . .

Traffic handlers MUST copy on paper or on a word processor.

In my opinion, one is not a skilled telegrapher until one can copy in
head and on paper with equal accuracy.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV



On 6/12/2017 11:59 AM, Fred Moore wrote:
> the moral... put down the pencil and paper.
>
> Fred Moore
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: OT Learning Morse anew

Clay Autery
Looking forward to starting the academy in the fall.  :)

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/12/2017 6:33 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote

> But Amateur Radio is a whole different world with different skills being
> most useful, skills such as head copy at 20 or 30 wpm. I enjoy "reading the
> mail" on CW while puttering around the shack, just as if listening to a
> voice transmission. And many Hams enjoy constantly pushing the envelope on
> speed just for the fun of it. Ham radio is, after all, a Hobby. If the other
> station copies the name as Don, not Ron, and the QTH as Forest Lawn (a
> cemetery in Los Angeles) and not Forest Grove (a town in Oregon), it's
> easily corrected on the next transmission.  
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
12