[OT] Street Lamps and RFI

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[OT] Street Lamps and RFI

Karl Erb
My condo association is planning to replace 1960's street lights to reduce energy usage.  Is there a reference or two that would help me educate our Board on best technology and why RFI should matter to them (right now, it doesn't)?

Thanks for any input.

Karl W3BF
karlerb7 at gmail dot com
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Re: [OT] Street Lamps and RFI

Don Wilhelm
Karl,

It might interest them to know if the street lamps (or any other
devices) create RFI to licensed radio services (Amateur Radio included),
they must turn those devices off and rectify the problem.
Of course, the FCC would be involved should that happen, but they must
rectify the RFI problem in any case.

They may not understand why it matters to them until you make a
complaint to the FCC and they are asked to shut the RFI generators down.

Caution, the enforcement process can take some time, so if you can steer
them to RFI-free devices, that is the best solution.

I don't have any pointers to RFI-free street lighting.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/9/2016 5:43 PM, KarlErb wrote:
> My condo association is planning to replace 1960's street lights to reduce energy usage.  Is there a reference or two that would help me educate our Board on best technology and why RFI should matter to them (right now, it doesn't)?
>
>

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Re: [OT] Street Lamps and RFI

HankP
This is a reply from Mike Gruber -- Phoenix is planning 90,000 street and park lights !!!! - Hank K7HP To Whom It May Concern: This is in response for your request for public input concerning a conversion to LED street and park lighting in Phoenix. Although these lighting devices must meet FCC Part 15 limits for unintentional radiators, I’d like to suggest that they be rated for Part 15B as opposed to Part 15A. The lower Part 15B limits would help minimize the interference potential to radio reception in automobiles and other nearby users of the radio spectrum. Please don’t hesitate to ask if you have any questions. Thanks, Mike Gruber, W1MG ARRL EMC Engineer ARRL - The national association for Amateur Radio™ 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06 111-1400 USA Telephone: (860) 594-0392 FAX: (860) 594-0259 Email: [hidden email] World Wide Web: http://www.arrl.org/ ----- Original Message -----

> Karl,
> It might interest them to know if the street lamps (or any other
> devices) create RFI to licensed radio services (Amateur Radio
> included),
> they must turn those devices off and rectify the problem.
> Of course, the FCC would be involved should that happen, but they must
> rectify the RFI problem in any case.
> They may not understand why it matters to them until you make a
> complaint to the FCC and they are asked to shut the RFI generators
> down.
> Caution, the enforcement process can take some time, so if you can
> steer
> them to RFI-free devices, that is the best solution.
> I don't have any pointers to RFI-free street lighting.
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> On 6/9/2016 5:43 PM, KarlErb wrote:
> > My condo association is planning to replace 1960's street lights to
> > reduce energy usage. Is there a reference or two that would help me
> > educate our Board on best technology and why RFI should matter to
> > them (right now, it doesn't)?
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
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Re: [OT] Street Lamps and RFI

k6dgw
In reply to this post by Karl Erb
My experience with two [a small sample] of street lamps, both owned by
the State of California [CALTRANS], is that the lamps don't really
matter much, it's the controllers ... what we used to call ballasts but
that's archaic now.

One appeared to be a fairly old high-pressure sodium vapor lamp, and it
emitted a steady buzz centered on 6 Mhz and spread from about 3 Mhz to 8
Mhz.  It was about 3 km away and ran about S5-S6 on my K3.  A similar
lamp maybe 4 km distant emitted nothing.

The other was what I believe a low pressure lamp.  It's problem was that
it was failing ... very, very slowly ... and the controller [or ballast,
your choice] would emit sharp spikes in a spectrum that ran from 160
through 17 m as it continually tried to restart the lamp.

After multiple contacts to my state government, I gave up and we finally
moved [not because of that :-)].  The failing one has not yet died, saw
it last time through Auburn ... it does this day and night.

You might want to point your Association to 47CFR15, and their
responsibility to prevent interference to licensed services.  They might
care about that, CALTRANS never did.

73,

Fred K6DGW
Sparks NV
Washoe County DM09dn

On 6/9/2016 2:43 PM, KarlErb wrote:
> My condo association is planning to replace 1960's street lights to
> reduce energy usage.  Is there a reference or two that would help me
> educate our Board on best technology and why RFI should matter to
> them (right now, it doesn't)?
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
> Karl W3BF karlerb7 at gmail dot com
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Re: [OT] Street Lamps and RFI

Phil Kane-2
In reply to this post by HankP
On 6/9/2016 3:26 PM, HankP wrote:

> Although these lighting devices must meet FCC Part 15 limits for
> unintentional radiators, I’d like to suggest that they be rated for
> Part 15B as opposed to Part 15A.

Although we wish that it would be so, it is very doubtful if there are
any street lamps that are certified to meet FCC Part 15 standards as
Class B devices.  We're lucky that they meet Class A device standards at
that.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [OT] Street Lamps and RFI

Kevin - K4VD
Could the ARRL help? Maybe they can provide some background or educational
material for the association.

Kev / K4VD

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 8:46 PM, Phil Kane <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/9/2016 3:26 PM, HankP wrote:
>
> > Although these lighting devices must meet FCC Part 15 limits for
> > unintentional radiators, I’d like to suggest that they be rated for
> > Part 15B as opposed to Part 15A.
>
> Although we wish that it would be so, it is very doubtful if there are
> any street lamps that are certified to meet FCC Part 15 standards as
> Class B devices.  We're lucky that they meet Class A device standards at
> that.
>
> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
>
> From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
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Re: [OT] Street Lamps and RFI

NK7Z
In reply to this post by Karl Erb
On Thu, 2016-06-09 at 17:43 -0400, KarlErb wrote:
> My condo association is planning to replace 1960's street lights to
> reduce energy usage.  Is there a reference or two that would help me
> educate our Board on best technology and why RFI should matter to them
> (right now, it doesn't)?
>

You should contact Ed Hare, and/or Mike Gruber of the ARRL.  Go to the
ARRL page and you can locate their email address, or call the ARRL
directly and ask for Mike Gruber.  They are imminently contactable via
phone.  Mike and Ed will be able to assist you in very short order.


--
73's, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
For software/hardware reviews see:
http://www.nk7z.net

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Re: [OT] Street Lamps and RFI

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Phil Kane-2
On Thu,6/9/2016 5:46 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
> Although we wish that it would be so, it is very doubtful if there are
> any street lamps that are certified to meet FCC Part 15 standards as
> Class B devices.

Phil,

My understanding of the Rules is that if a product is used in a
residential neighborhood it must be certified to Class B. Am I mistaken?

73, Jim K9YC

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Fwd: [OT] Street Lamps and RFI

Karl Erb
In reply to this post by NK7Z
Thanks to everyone who responded to my request.  Very helpful.  I'll get in touch with ARRL and EPRI folk and then alert our Board to the why's, what for's and consequences of Part 15.  This dovetails with our similar discussions about rooftop solar panels.
73, Karl Erb W3BF
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Re: [OT] Street Lamps and RFI

k6dgw
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
I don't think so Jim, but don't put any money on what I think.  Most of
47CFR that deals with such standards seems to classify emitters based
more on their usage rather than location.  I suspect that "street
lighting," even if in a residential area would not have to meet Class B
standards.  Not that that would matter anyway, it appears that no one is
enforcing any of this.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016
- www.cqp.org

On 6/9/2016 9:57 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Thu,6/9/2016 5:46 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
>> Although we wish that it would be so, it is very doubtful if there are
>> any street lamps that are certified to meet FCC Part 15 standards as
>> Class B devices.
>
> Phil,
>
> My understanding of the Rules is that if a product is used in a
> residential neighborhood it must be certified to Class B. Am I mistaken?
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

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