[OT] The Joy of QRP

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[OT] The Joy of QRP

stan levandowski
...so there I am tuning across 20 meters and the band seems dead. 
Having learned a lot about self-fulfilling prophesies across my 53 year
ham career, I go up to 14.060 and send one quick CQ.

A tiny signal appears but the KX3 has what it takes to make the most of
the situation.  I manage to dig out N4KGL/6.  He's about a 329; he gives
me a 449. 

Seems Greg is sitting in a hotel room at LAX in front of his own KX3
hooked to a Buddistick. 

We're both running 5 watts.

My antenna is a doublet in my attic in New York.

Coast-to-Coast on 5 watts and a couple of suboptimal antennas on a dead
band.

Ahhhhh....the joy of the unexpected!

72, Stan WB2LQF


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Re: [OT] The Joy of QRP

daleputnam
That is the coolest!!! and QRP did it again... that a couple of good ops too!Congratulations Stan!!

Have a great day,
 
 
--...   ...--
Dale - WC7S in Wy
 
 


> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 21:21:53 -0400
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] [OT]  The Joy of QRP
>
> ...so there I am tuning across 20 meters and the band seems dead.  
> Having learned a lot about self-fulfilling prophesies across my 53 year
> ham career, I go up to 14.060 and send one quick CQ.
>
> A tiny signal appears but the KX3 has what it takes to make the most of
> the situation.  I manage to dig out N4KGL/6.  He's about a 329; he gives
> me a 449.
>
> Seems Greg is sitting in a hotel room at LAX in front of his own KX3
> hooked to a Buddistick.
>
> We're both running 5 watts.
>
> My antenna is a doublet in my attic in New York.
>
> Coast-to-Coast on 5 watts and a couple of suboptimal antennas on a dead
> band.
>
> Ahhhhh....the joy of the unexpected!
>
> 72, Stan WB2LQF
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
     
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Re: The Joy of QRP

Rick M0LEP
In reply to this post by stan levandowski
On Thu 26 Sep Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> Y'know, most of the DX I work is on "dead bands", usually 20 meters

Yeah, QRP often has the best chance when the bands are "dead". Once the
big guns get the idea that a band is open QRP can get quite difficult. I
was out on a SOTA summit yesterday with my KX3 trying to get another 12
metres challenge multiplier, and I could hear quite a bit of activity on
the band, but wasn't able to make myself heard either when I called CQ
or when I answered others' calls.
 
--
... 73, Rick, M0LEP

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Re: The Joy of QRP

Millerhill
Sorry no joy there Rick, but at least you had a nice day in the great outdoors.

My latest "adventure" was a QSO with a station in Japan on 20m yesterday (I'm in VT with a KX3). I have to count countries, but after about a year and a half of operating, I'm up to 150 or so. Still trying to reach that Myanmar operation, bit no luck so far. I don't think my antenna is up to it. BUT like John Shannon has said in his FISTS piece recently, the pleasure and challenge of low power QSO's makes up for the occasional inability to make a contact.

72/73
Steve
W1SFR


On Sep 26, 2013, at 3:37 AM, Rick M0LEP wrote:

> On Thu 26 Sep Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>> Y'know, most of the DX I work is on "dead bands", usually 20 meters
>
> Yeah, QRP often has the best chance when the bands are "dead". Once the
> big guns get the idea that a band is open QRP can get quite difficult. I
> was out on a SOTA summit yesterday with my KX3 trying to get another 12
> metres challenge multiplier, and I could hear quite a bit of activity on
> the band, but wasn't able to make myself heard either when I called CQ
> or when I answered others' calls.
>
> --
> ... 73, Rick, M0LEP
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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[OT] - PAR HF OMNI ANGLE

stan levandowski
 About 3 weeks ago, I learned about a new "miracle antenna" -  I usually
dismiss such nonsense because there *is* no miracle antenna.  However,
the person who informed me is a trusted, capable, educated ham and
DXpeditioner who is not easily impressed.

I still don't believe in "miracles" but this 2.5 lb, 7 by 4 foot, easy
up/easy down, no tools required, easy-to-tune $99 new product
by Dale Parfitt [designer of the PAR End FedZ series] offers
a realistic alternative to those with severe antenna restrictions, attic
installations, SOTA needs, and so on.  It is easily mounted on a Jackite
or similar fiberglass pole. Just put it on and slide it down until it's
a good friction fit.

The antenna is resonant for a single band ( choose: 20, 17, 15, 12, 10
or 6) and additional matchboxes can be purchased for around $25 each.

I bought the 17 meter version and in two weeks of non-scientific,
casual A/B testing against my 44' doublet, the Omni Angle has been equal
or better on receive the majority of times and about the same on
transmit.  On receive it seems notaby less noisy than my doublet.  It is
horizontally polarized. 

I don't want to create an antenna controversy here on proper antenna
testing techniques -- I seem to have a flair for doing  that -- ;) 

But I do want to pass along info on this new product which might be very
useful to those of us who have to live with antenna restrictions or who
need options for effective portable operations.

Here is a short Youtube video I cobbled together to demonstrate my 17
meter PAR Omni Angle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGTq4zVAW_w

73, Stan WB2LQF


 
 
 
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Re: The Joy of QRP

Rick M0LEP
In reply to this post by Millerhill
On Thu 26 Sep Stephen Roberts wrote:
> at least you had a nice day in the great outdoors.

....which is at least half the point of activities like SOTA. It'd be
nice if the summits nearest to me were more interesting, but I'd have to
move house to make that the case.

> My latest "adventure" was a QSO with a station in Japan on 20m yesterday

QRP sometimes throws in surprises like that.

> I don't think my antenna is up to it.

Experimenting with antennas is a big part of the challenge. The KX3's
ATU makes that a bit easier. One thing that's pretty much guaranteed is
that the antennas you've cut and tuned to near perfection in your back
garden will find some interesting way to behave when stuck up on a rocky
summit, or wherever, and the ATU helps keep them in line...

My main QTH antennas could do with a re-think, though. I dream of having
something steerable with a bit of directionality... ;)

> the pleasure and challenge of low power QSO's makes up for the
> occasional inability to make a contact.

Heh. First time I took a radio to Kenya, back in mid 2011 when the
sunspots were all but absent, all I had was an FT817. Making contacts
from there with 5 watts was quite hard work; I think I averaged fewer
than two QSOs per day overall...

--
... 73, Rick, M0LEP

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Re: The Joy of QRP

Rick Johnson-2
QRP puts the onus on the receiving station.
No problem transmitting 5W.
 
73,
Rick W3BI
 

> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:58:04 +0000
> To: [hidden email]
> From: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] The Joy of QRP
>
> On Thu 26 Sep Stephen Roberts wrote:
> > at least you had a nice day in the great outdoors.
>
> ....which is at least half the point of activities like SOTA. It'd be
> nice if the summits nearest to me were more interesting, but I'd have to
> move house to make that the case.
>
> > My latest "adventure" was a QSO with a station in Japan on 20m yesterday
>
> QRP sometimes throws in surprises like that.
>
> > I don't think my antenna is up to it.
>
> Experimenting with antennas is a big part of the challenge. The KX3's
> ATU makes that a bit easier. One thing that's pretty much guaranteed is
> that the antennas you've cut and tuned to near perfection in your back
> garden will find some interesting way to behave when stuck up on a rocky
> summit, or wherever, and the ATU helps keep them in line...
>
> My main QTH antennas could do with a re-think, though. I dream of having
> something steerable with a bit of directionality... ;)
>
> > the pleasure and challenge of low power QSO's makes up for the
> > occasional inability to make a contact.
>
> Heh. First time I took a radio to Kenya, back in mid 2011 when the
> sunspots were all but absent, all I had was an FT817. Making contacts
> from there with 5 watts was quite hard work; I think I averaged fewer
> than two QSOs per day overall...
>
> --
> ... 73, Rick, M0LEP
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
     
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Re: The Joy of QRP

ny4g
In reply to this post by Millerhill
I have to add that my greatest pride as a ham is having DXCC and WAS with QRP power. I am up to 175 countries (mostly with Elecraft gear) but i still enjoy QRP despite having the ability now to transmit  at the legal limit. One thing that QRP operation teaches you is knowing when and what conditions are in your favor, timing, propagation and teaches listening skills.  It is a good thing that Elecraft rigs have good "ears".

Ariel NY4G

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 26, 2013, at 9:12 AM, "Stephen Roberts" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry no joy there Rick, but at least you had a nice day in the great outdoors.
>
> My latest "adventure" was a QSO with a station in Japan on 20m yesterday (I'm in VT with a KX3). I have to count countries, but after about a year and a half of operating, I'm up to 150 or so. Still trying to reach that Myanmar operation, bit no luck so far. I don't think my antenna is up to it. BUT like John Shannon has said in his FISTS piece recently, the pleasure and challenge of low power QSO's makes up for the occasional inability to make a contact.
>
> 72/73
> Steve
> W1SFR
>
>
> On Sep 26, 2013, at 3:37 AM, Rick M0LEP wrote:
>
>> On Thu 26 Sep Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>>> Y'know, most of the DX I work is on "dead bands", usually 20 meters
>>
>> Yeah, QRP often has the best chance when the bands are "dead". Once the
>> big guns get the idea that a band is open QRP can get quite difficult. I
>> was out on a SOTA summit yesterday with my KX3 trying to get another 12
>> metres challenge multiplier, and I could hear quite a bit of activity on
>> the band, but wasn't able to make myself heard either when I called CQ
>> or when I answered others' calls.
>>
>> --
>> ... 73, Rick, M0LEP
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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Re: [OT] - PAR HF OMNI ANGLE

stan levandowski
In reply to this post by stan levandowski

 Go to:  http://www.parelectronics.com/index.php 
<http://www.parelectronics.com/index.php>   and click on HF Omnis
 
Dale Parfitt (PAR) sold EndFedZ to LNR.  Dale remains in business at PAR
Electronics mostly doing business with commercial, government and
military.  I think that's where the confusion is.  73, Stan WB2LQF
 
 
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Carlton Haycock wrote:
 
 
I thought PAR was out of the antenna business, sold to LNR?

From: "stan levandowski" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 9:57:15 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] [OT] - PAR HF OMNI ANGLE
 About 3 weeks ago, I learned about a new "miracle antenna" -  I usually
dismiss such nonsense because there *is* no miracle antenna.  However,
the person who informed me is a trusted, capable, educated ham and
DXpeditioner who is not easily impressed.
I still don't believe in "miracles" but this 2.5 lb, 7 by 4 foot, easy
up/easy down, no tools required, easy-to-tune $99 new product
by Dale Parfitt [designer of the PAR End FedZ series] offers
a realistic alternative to those with severe antenna restrictions, attic
installations, SOTA needs, and so on.  It is easily mounted on a Jackite
or similar fiberglass pole. Just put it on and slide it down until it's
a good friction fit.
The antenna is resonant for a single band ( choose: 20, 17, 15, 12, 10
or 6) and additional matchboxes can be purchased for around $25 each.
I bought the 17 meter version and in two weeks of non-scientific,
casual A/B testing against my 44' doublet, the Omni Angle has been equal
or better on receive the majority of times and about the same on
transmit.  On receive it seems notaby less noisy than my doublet.  It is
horizontally polarized. 
I don't want to create an antenna controversy here on proper antenna
testing techniques -- I seem to have a flair for doing  that -- ;) 
But I do want to pass along info on this new product which might be very
useful to those of us who have to live with antenna restrictions or who
need options for effective portable operations.
Here is a short Youtube video I cobbled together to demonstrate my 17
meter PAR Omni Angle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGTq4zVAW_w
73, Stan WB2LQF

 
 
 
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Re: [OT] - PAR HF OMNI ANGLE

Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
In reply to this post by stan levandowski
How high was the 44' doublet?

How was it oriented compared to the Omni Angle antenna?

Is the doublet in inverted V or horizontal configuration?

I am finding this interesting because I am soon moving to an antenna-restricted location.

On 9/26/2013 6:57 AM, stan levandowski wrote:

>   About 3 weeks ago, I learned about a new "miracle antenna" -  I usually dismiss such
> nonsense because there *is* no miracle antenna.  However, the person who informed me is a
> trusted, capable, educated ham and DXpeditioner who is not easily impressed.
>
> I still don't believe in "miracles" but this 2.5 lb, 7 by 4 foot, easy up/easy down, no
> tools required, easy-to-tune $99 new product by Dale Parfitt [designer of the PAR End
> FedZ series] offers a realistic alternative to those with severe antenna restrictions,
> attic installations, SOTA needs, and so on.  It is easily mounted on a Jackite or similar
> fiberglass pole. Just put it on and slide it down until it's a good friction fit.
>
> The antenna is resonant for a single band ( choose: 20, 17, 15, 12, 10 or 6) and
> additional matchboxes can be purchased for around $25 each.
>
> I bought the 17 meter version and in two weeks of non-scientific, casual A/B testing
> against my 44' doublet, the Omni Angle has been equal or better on receive the majority of
> times and about the same on transmit.  On receive it seems notaby less noisy than my
> doublet.  It is horizontally polarized.
>
> I don't want to create an antenna controversy here on proper antenna testing techniques --
> I seem to have a flair for doing  that -- ;)
>
> But I do want to pass along info on this new product which might be very useful to those
> of us who have to live with antenna restrictions or who need options for effective
> portable operations.
>
> Here is a short Youtube video I cobbled together to demonstrate my 17 meter PAR Omni Angle.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGTq4zVAW_w
>
> 73, Stan WB2LQF
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

--
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: The Joy of QRP

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Rick M0LEP
On 9/26/2013 12:37 AM, Rick M0LEP wrote:
> Yeah, QRP often has the best chance when the bands are "dead".

QRP can also be rewarding when the bands are full in a major contest.  
DX contests scoring rules put west coast stations at a 10:1 disadvantage
to those around the Atlantic basin, so most of us out here use them as
nothing more than an attempt to pick up DX countries. In the last year
or so, I've started running 5W in the ARRL and CQ contests. I can't
compete with big signals, I don't get through with marginal propagation,
and I can't work the alligators (those with big TX but no RX) but I do
work those with good ears when propagation is right.  In only a couple
of such efforts, I've worked 65 countries on the HF bands. On160M, I've
worked about a dozen DX countries (two contests and several DXpeditions)
and 44 US states.

NEVER, NEVER, EVER send /QRP in a contest. It only slows things down,
and many serious ops, including me, will treat you as a lid and ignore
you.  When you're weak, transmit nothing but the minimum -- your call,
and the exchange, NEVER repeat anything that the other station has
copied correctly, and when he asks for a repeat, be prepared to repeat
several times.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [OT] - PAR HF OMNI ANGLE

Craig Smith
In reply to this post by Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
Both the PAR omniangle and the doublet are excellent antennas.

The 44 ft doublet on 17 meters has a pattern with several sharp lobes, and its gain will vary considerably depending upon which direction the signal is coming from.   In some directions it will be significantly better than the Omniangle, and in some directions significantly worse.   I believe that this is likely what Stan was experiencing with the contact in his video.

The obvious advantage of the Omniangle is size.  The big advantage of the doublet is easy multi-band operation (with the tuner).   Its gain vs. desired direction can be either an advantage or disadvantage.


73  Craig  AC0DS

Craig Smith
1009 Alder Way
Longmont, CO  80503
[hidden email]
303-834-7712

          






On 26, Sep2013, at 10:33 AM, Vic K2VCO wrote:

> How high was the 44' doublet?
>
> How was it oriented compared to the Omni Angle antenna?
>
> Is the doublet in inverted V or horizontal configuration?
>
> I am finding this interesting because I am soon moving to an antenna-restricted location.
>
> On 9/26/2013 6:57 AM, stan levandowski wrote:
>>  About 3 weeks ago, I learned about a new "miracle antenna" -  I usually dismiss such
>> nonsense because there *is* no miracle antenna.  However, the person who informed me is a
>> trusted, capable, educated ham and DXpeditioner who is not easily impressed.
>>
>> I still don't believe in "miracles" but this 2.5 lb, 7 by 4 foot, easy up/easy down, no
>> tools required, easy-to-tune $99 new product by Dale Parfitt [designer of the PAR End
>> FedZ series] offers a realistic alternative to those with severe antenna restrictions,
>> attic installations, SOTA needs, and so on.  It is easily mounted on a Jackite or similar
>> fiberglass pole. Just put it on and slide it down until it's a good friction fit.
>>
>> The antenna is resonant for a single band ( choose: 20, 17, 15, 12, 10 or 6) and
>> additional matchboxes can be purchased for around $25 each.
>>
>> I bought the 17 meter version and in two weeks of non-scientific, casual A/B testing
>> against my 44' doublet, the Omni Angle has been equal or better on receive the majority of
>> times and about the same on transmit.  On receive it seems notaby less noisy than my
>> doublet.  It is horizontally polarized.
>>
>> I don't want to create an antenna controversy here on proper antenna testing techniques --
>> I seem to have a flair for doing  that -- ;)
>>
>> But I do want to pass along info on this new product which might be very useful to those
>> of us who have to live with antenna restrictions or who need options for effective
>> portable operations.
>>
>> Here is a short Youtube video I cobbled together to demonstrate my 17 meter PAR Omni Angle.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGTq4zVAW_w
>>
>> 73, Stan WB2LQF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> --
> Vic, K2VCO
> Fresno CA
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Re: [OT] - PAR HF OMNI ANGLE

Randy Moore
In reply to this post by Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
I have a 44' doublet hanging from a tree in a near vertical orientation (steep sloper) and it does very well. The bottom is about 8' off the ground and it's maybe 20 deg.  off vertical.  Fed with ladder line with a BL2 at the K3 and the KAT3; 40m-10m.

73,
Randy, KS4L

> On Sep 26, 2013, at 11:33 AM, Vic K2VCO <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> How high was the 44' doublet?
>
> How was it oriented compared to the Omni Angle antenna?
>
> Is the doublet in inverted V or horizontal configuration?
>
> I am finding this interesting because I am soon moving to an antenna-restricted location.
>
>> On 9/26/2013 6:57 AM, stan levandowski wrote:
>>  About 3 weeks ago, I learned about a new "miracle antenna" -  I usually dismiss such
>> nonsense because there *is* no miracle antenna.  However, the person who informed me is a
>> trusted, capable, educated ham and DXpeditioner who is not easily impressed.
>>
>> I still don't believe in "miracles" but this 2.5 lb, 7 by 4 foot, easy up/easy down, no
>> tools required, easy-to-tune $99 new product by Dale Parfitt [designer of the PAR End
>> FedZ series] offers a realistic alternative to those with severe antenna restrictions,
>> attic installations, SOTA needs, and so on.  It is easily mounted on a Jackite or similar
>> fiberglass pole. Just put it on and slide it down until it's a good friction fit.
>>
>> The antenna is resonant for a single band ( choose: 20, 17, 15, 12, 10 or 6) and
>> additional matchboxes can be purchased for around $25 each.
>>
>> I bought the 17 meter version and in two weeks of non-scientific, casual A/B testing
>> against my 44' doublet, the Omni Angle has been equal or better on receive the majority of
>> times and about the same on transmit.  On receive it seems notaby less noisy than my
>> doublet.  It is horizontally polarized.
>>
>> I don't want to create an antenna controversy here on proper antenna testing techniques --
>> I seem to have a flair for doing  that -- ;)
>>
>> But I do want to pass along info on this new product which might be very useful to those
>> of us who have to live with antenna restrictions or who need options for effective
>> portable operations.
>>
>> Here is a short Youtube video I cobbled together to demonstrate my 17 meter PAR Omni Angle.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGTq4zVAW_w
>>
>> 73, Stan WB2LQF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> --
> Vic, K2VCO
> Fresno CA
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: [OT] - PAR HF OMNI ANGLE

Ignacy
In a world of bragging, this is all nothing....

Last Sunday morning, I took my KX3 out. The antenna was thin wire attached to a 23 ft fiberglass pole (2 ft collapsed, weight < 1 lb)  and one 15 ft counterpoise. VK5HC was CQing at 579 on 30m. Many stations could not hear him. I attached an external Li-Ion battery for 12W out, but KX3 complained of > 16V, and I forgot a voltage reducer. KX3 was also shutting down with internal NiMH battery at 5W but functioned at 3W.  Got 419. He had KX3 as well.

It helped to be on a pier over salt water in Tybee Island, GA.

Ignacy, NO9E


   
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Re: [OT] - PAR HF OMNI ANGLE

stan levandowski
In reply to this post by Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
Hi Vic.  My 44' doublet is in my attic, arranged as a flat top for 24'
and then drooping straight down at both ends.  The antenna is almost
exactly 30' above the earth.  It is fed with 14' of 450  ohm ladder
line straight down through a slit in my ceiling and into a linen closet
where it meets up with an SG237 autocoupler.  This keeps the autocoupler
out of the winter cold and summer heat of the attic.  From there I have
a run of nice "clean" 50 ohm coax to my second story "shack"  This attic
doublet arrangement is nearly 4 years old and has served me exceedingly
well on 40 through 10 meters, inclusive.  I only run 5 watts CW at all
times simply because I love QRP and I love CW and it's my "thing."   The
frequency agility of the doublet/autocoupler combination has been
wonderful because those of us in restrictive environments usually don't
have room for more than one, possibly two "good" antennas.  I have a
very RF friendly attic in terms of no foil insulation, no HVAC, only
PVC plumbing stacks, etc.  Of course, there is some attenuation but at
HF I believe (from what I've been able to research)   that this
attenuation is frequently overstated and often considered to be far
worse than what it really is.  In my experience, the "worst" penalties
that follow an attic (or any indoor) installation - RF exposure
notwithstanding - are skewed radiation pattern and "house noise."
i
By comparison, the Omni Angle when this video was made was at 27' - 3'
lower than the doublet's flat top section.  That was 15' above the lower
deck + 12' up on the Jackite.  The Omni Angle was "facing" E-W in the
sense that the "front" wire portion was pointing in that direction; the
attic doublet was pointing in the same E-W direction. Of course, we can
all agree, I'm sure, that this information doesn't help all that much in
comparing these two antennas because the drooped attic doublet had some
vertical component and most assuredly some skew in its pattern + as
another Lister pointed out, on 17M there are lobes on the doublet.

But here's what I think is important to know:  For those of us (and
we're probably an increasing number in today's world) who can't enjoy
"antenna freedom" this Omni Angle represents another option and a darn
good one from my experience of the last 3 weeks.  In my case, it fits
the footprint of my deck.  I can put it up on my 31' jackite to about
the 25' + 15' for the upper deck gives me 40' of height, clear of my
roof line, and away from the attic "house noise."

My attic doublet is my overall favorite antenna and out of the weather
and is always ready for me.  It's earned me DXCC at the QRP level, QRP
WAC, and I've worked all states too.  It's gotten me to Japan from NY on
5 watts more than once.  But this Omni Angle also got me to Tokyo on 5
watts just last week.  So, based on my experience, the Omni Angle is a
competitive antenna for a restrictive home QTH, for portable work and,
in my case, for "stationary mobile" where I drive to a scenic rest stop,
drop a fiberglass pole into my hombrew mount on my VW Bug, hoist an
antenna that's significantly better than a Hamstick, and enjoy ham
radio.

Hope this helps to answer your questions, Vic, as well as those of other
Listers with antenna restrictions.

73, Stan WB2LQF

 
 
 On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Vic K2VCO wrote:
 
 > How high was the 44' doublet?

>
> How was it oriented compared to the Omni Angle antenna?
>
> Is the doublet in inverted V or horizontal configuration?
>
> I am finding this interesting because I am soon moving to an
> antenna-restricted location.
>
> On 9/26/2013 6:57 AM, stan levandowski wrote:
>>   About 3 weeks ago, I learned about a new "miracle antenna" -  I
>> usually dismiss such
>> nonsense because there *is* no miracle antenna.  However, the person
>> who informed me is a
>> trusted, capable, educated ham and DXpeditioner who is not easily
>> impressed.
>>
>> I still don't believe in "miracles" but this 2.5 lb, 7 by 4 foot,
>> easy up/easy down, no
>> tools required, easy-to-tune $99 new product by Dale Parfitt
>> [designer of the PAR End
>> FedZ series] offers a realistic alternative to those with severe
>> antenna restrictions,
>> attic installations, SOTA needs, and so on.  It is easily mounted on
>> a Jackite or similar
>> fiberglass pole. Just put it on and slide it down until it's a good
>> friction fit.
>>
>> The antenna is resonant for a single band ( choose: 20, 17, 15, 12,
>> 10 or 6) and
>> additional matchboxes can be purchased for around $25 each.
>>
>> I bought the 17 meter version and in two weeks of non-scientific,
>> casual A/B testing
>> against my 44' doublet, the Omni Angle has been equal or better on
>> receive the majority of
>> times and about the same on transmit.  On receive it seems notaby
>> less noisy than my
>> doublet.  It is horizontally polarized.
>>
>> I don't want to create an antenna controversy here on proper antenna
>> testing techniques --
>> I seem to have a flair for doing  that -- ;)
>>
>> But I do want to pass along info on this new product which might be
>> very useful to those
>> of us who have to live with antenna restrictions or who need options
>> for effective
>> portable operations.
>>
>> Here is a short Youtube video I cobbled together to demonstrate my 17
>> meter PAR Omni Angle.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGTq4zVAW_w
>>
>> 73, Stan WB2LQF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> --
> Vic, K2VCO
> Fresno CA
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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Re: [OT] - PAR HF OMNI ANGLE

Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
Stan,

Interesting. I did a quick EZNEC plot of the pattern of a 44' doublet (close to a full
wavelength) at 30' on 18.07 MHz and didn't see any deep nulls in the horizontal pattern.
But in the direction of Italy from NY it is down about 5 dB from the maximum gain in the
E-W direction. I recently modeled the 'cobweb' antenna, which is a 'square' dipole similar
to the Omni-angle configuration; it had a maximum gain of about 2 dB less than a dipole
and would be down an additional 1.4 db in the direction of Italy.

So my guess is that about only 1.6 dB of the difference between the dipole and the
Omni-angle antenna came from the patterns. The rest could be attributed to the location of
the doublet in the attic and the dropped ends (I didn't model this, but I suspect it has
an effect).

On 9/26/2013 11:46 AM, stan levandowski wrote:

> Hi Vic.  My 44' doublet is in my attic, arranged as a flat top for 24' and then drooping
> straight down at both ends.  The antenna is almost exactly 30' above the earth.  It is fed
> with 14' of 450  ohm ladder line straight down through a slit in my ceiling and into a
> linen closet where it meets up with an SG237 autocoupler.  This keeps the autocoupler out
> of the winter cold and summer heat of the attic.  From there I have a run of nice "clean"
> 50 ohm coax to my second story "shack"  This attic doublet arrangement is nearly 4 years
> old and has served me exceedingly well on 40 through 10 meters, inclusive.  I only run 5
> watts CW at all times simply because I love QRP and I love CW and it's my "thing."   The
> frequency agility of the doublet/autocoupler combination has been wonderful because those
> of us in restrictive environments usually don't have room for more than one, possibly two
> "good" antennas.  I have a very RF friendly attic in terms of no foil insulation, no HVAC,
> only PVC plumbing stacks, etc.  Of course, there is some attenuation but at HF I believe
> (from what I've been able to research)   that this attenuation is frequently overstated
> and often considered to be far worse than what it really is.  In my experience, the
> "worst" penalties that follow an attic (or any indoor) installation - RF exposure
> notwithstanding - are skewed radiation pattern and "house noise."
> i
> By comparison, the Omni Angle when this video was made was at 27' - 3' lower than the
> doublet's flat top section.  That was 15' above the lower deck + 12' up on the Jackite.
> The Omni Angle was "facing" E-W in the sense that the "front" wire portion was pointing in
> that direction; the attic doublet was pointing in the same E-W direction. Of course, we
> can all agree, I'm sure, that this information doesn't help all that much in comparing
> these two antennas because the drooped attic doublet had some vertical component and most
> assuredly some skew in its pattern + as another Lister pointed out, on 17M there are lobes
> on the doublet.
>
> But here's what I think is important to know:  For those of us (and we're probably an
> increasing number in today's world) who can't enjoy "antenna freedom" this Omni Angle
> represents another option and a darn good one from my experience of the last 3 weeks.  In
> my case, it fits the footprint of my deck.  I can put it up on my 31' jackite to about the
> 25' + 15' for the upper deck gives me 40' of height, clear of my roof line, and away from
> the attic "house noise."
>
> My attic doublet is my overall favorite antenna and out of the weather and is always ready
> for me.  It's earned me DXCC at the QRP level, QRP WAC, and I've worked all states too.
> It's gotten me to Japan from NY on 5 watts more than once.  But this Omni Angle also got
> me to Tokyo on 5 watts just last week.  So, based on my experience, the Omni Angle is a
> competitive antenna for a restrictive home QTH, for portable work and, in my case, for
> "stationary mobile" where I drive to a scenic rest stop, drop a fiberglass pole into my
> hombrew mount on my VW Bug, hoist an antenna that's significantly better than a Hamstick,
> and enjoy ham radio.
>
> Hope this helps to answer your questions, Vic, as well as those of other Listers with
> antenna restrictions.
>
> 73, Stan WB2LQF
>
>
>
>   On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Vic K2VCO wrote:
>
>   > How high was the 44' doublet?
>>
>> How was it oriented compared to the Omni Angle antenna?
>>
>> Is the doublet in inverted V or horizontal configuration?
>>
>> I am finding this interesting because I am soon moving to an antenna-restricted location.
>>
>> On 9/26/2013 6:57 AM, stan levandowski wrote:
>>>   About 3 weeks ago, I learned about a new "miracle antenna" -  I usually dismiss such
>>> nonsense because there *is* no miracle antenna.  However, the person who informed me is a
>>> trusted, capable, educated ham and DXpeditioner who is not easily impressed.
>>>
>>> I still don't believe in "miracles" but this 2.5 lb, 7 by 4 foot, easy up/easy down, no
>>> tools required, easy-to-tune $99 new product by Dale Parfitt [designer of the PAR End
>>> FedZ series] offers a realistic alternative to those with severe antenna restrictions,
>>> attic installations, SOTA needs, and so on.  It is easily mounted on a Jackite or similar
>>> fiberglass pole. Just put it on and slide it down until it's a good friction fit.
>>>
>>> The antenna is resonant for a single band ( choose: 20, 17, 15, 12, 10 or 6) and
>>> additional matchboxes can be purchased for around $25 each.
>>>
>>> I bought the 17 meter version and in two weeks of non-scientific, casual A/B testing
>>> against my 44' doublet, the Omni Angle has been equal or better on receive the majority of
>>> times and about the same on transmit.  On receive it seems notaby less noisy than my
>>> doublet.  It is horizontally polarized.
>>>
>>> I don't want to create an antenna controversy here on proper antenna testing techniques --
>>> I seem to have a flair for doing  that -- ;)
>>>
>>> But I do want to pass along info on this new product which might be very useful to those
>>> of us who have to live with antenna restrictions or who need options for effective
>>> portable operations.
>>>
>>> Here is a short Youtube video I cobbled together to demonstrate my 17 meter PAR Omni
>>> Angle.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGTq4zVAW_w
>>>
>>> 73, Stan WB2LQF

--
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [OT] - PAR HF OMNI ANGLE

stan levandowski
Vic, I don't know how to model. It's on my bucket list.  However, my
personal opinion is that while modeling may give a general starting
point, all bets are off once the antenna - especially an indoor antenna
- is actually put in place.  You've got a point about Italy not exactly
being "west" of me.  In fact, IZ2GRG bears 55 degrees.  But this still
bodes well for the Omni Angle in that it's omnidirectional and did a
heck of a job on rescuing his signal from a fixed doublet looking the
wrong way.  This just points out one more nagging constraint we
antenna-restricted hams have to deal with:  the direction our homes
face!

To offer one more nugget from my inventory of sometimes weird solutions
to being antenna-restricted:  My attic doublet is always up and ready
and connected to a 6 way antenna/transceiver coax switch.  I have two
more coax cables running outside and usually, I put up one of my other
"non-permanent" antennas which is always vertically polarized -- either
a PAR EndFedZ  or a 40-6 meter EFHW also vertical.  My third antenna is
a 53 foot random wire at 28' that terminates in a 9:1 BalunDesigns UNUN
and it's outside and "stealth."

But the 44' doublet in the attic clearly and
consistently outperforms everything in my arsenal except the new Omni
Angle which has been interestingly competitive as noted. 

I have no idea how the Omni Angle would work indoors, in an attic for
example.  Frankly it has such a small footprint and is so light and
rapid to erect that I probably will never bother to try it there. 
However, it could easily be installed in an attic or even near the
ceiling in a room. This is because of the easy way it assembles and
disassembles; not a problem assembling it around and between the attic
framing.  And at 2.5 lbs I suppose a simple plant hangar in the ceiling
would hold it up easily. 

In closing, I consider myself extremely fortunate to have found antenna
solutions that allow me to enjoy enjoy QRP to the fullest extent.  I
wish everyone else the same good fortune.  And Thank God for the
invention of collapsible fiberglass poles!  Where would we be without
them??

73,Stan WB2LQF 

 
 
 On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 03:21 PM, Vic K2VCO wrote:
 
 > Stan,

>
> Interesting. I did a quick EZNEC plot of the pattern of a 44' doublet
> (close to a full wavelength) at 30' on 18.07 MHz and didn't see any
> deep undefineds in the horizontal pattern. But in the direction of
> Italy from NY it is down about 5 dB from the maximum gain in the E-W
> direction. I recently modeled the 'cobweb' antenna, which is a
> 'square' dipole similar to the Omni-angle configuration; it had a
> maximum gain of about 2 dB less than a dipole and would be down an
> additional 1.4 db in the direction of Italy.
>
> So my guess is that about only 1.6 dB of the difference between the
> dipole and the Omni-angle antenna came from the patterns. The rest
> could be attributed to the location of the doublet in the attic and
> the dropped ends (I didn't model this, but I suspect it has an
> effect).
>
> On 9/26/2013 11:46 AM, stan levandowski wrote:
>> Hi Vic.  My 44' doublet is in my attic, arranged as a flat top for
>> 24' and then drooping
>> straight down at both ends.  The antenna is almost exactly 30' above
>> the earth.  It is fed
>> with 14' of 450  ohm ladder line straight down through a slit in my
>> ceiling and into a
>> linen closet where it meets up with an SG237 autocoupler.  This keeps
>> the autocoupler out
>> of the winter cold and summer heat of the attic.  From there I have a
>> run of nice "clean"
>> 50 ohm coax to my second story "shack"  This attic doublet
>> arrangement is nearly 4 years
>> old and has served me exceedingly well on 40 through 10 meters,
>> inclusive.  I only run 5
>> watts CW at all times simply because I love QRP and I love CW and
>> it's my "thing."   The
>> frequency agility of the doublet/autocoupler combination has been
>> wonderful because those
>> of us in restrictive environments usually don't have room for more
>> than one, possibly two
>> "good" antennas.  I have a very RF friendly attic in terms of no foil
>> insulation, no HVAC,
>> only PVC plumbing stacks, etc.  Of course, there is some attenuation
>> but at HF I believe
>> (from what I've been able to research)   that this attenuation is
>> frequently overstated
>> and often considered to be far worse than what it really is.  In my
>> experience, the
>> "worst" penalties that follow an attic (or any indoor) installation -
>> RF exposure
>> notwithstanding - are skewed radiation pattern and "house noise."
>> i
>> By comparison, the Omni Angle when this video was made was at 27' -
>> 3' lower than the
>> doublet's flat top section.  That was 15' above the lower deck + 12'
>> up on the Jackite.
>> The Omni Angle was "facing" E-W in the sense that the "front" wire
>> portion was pointing in
>> that direction; the attic doublet was pointing in the same E-W
>> direction. Of course, we
>> can all agree, I'm sure, that this information doesn't help all that
>> much in comparing
>> these two antennas because the drooped attic doublet had some
>> vertical component and most
>> assuredly some skew in its pattern + as another Lister pointed out,
>> on 17M there are lobes
>> on the doublet.
>>
>> But here's what I think is important to know:  For those of us (and
>> we're probably an
>> increasing number in today's world) who can't enjoy "antenna freedom"
>> this Omni Angle
>> represents another option and a darn good one from my experience of
>> the last 3 weeks.  In
>> my case, it fits the footprint of my deck.  I can put it up on my 31'
>> jackite to about the
>> 25' + 15' for the upper deck gives me 40' of height, clear of my roof
>> line, and away from
>> the attic "house noise."
>>
>> My attic doublet is my overall favorite antenna and out of the
>> weather and is always ready
>> for me.  It's earned me DXCC at the QRP level, QRP WAC, and I've
>> worked all states too.
>> It's gotten me to Japan from NY on 5 watts more than once.  But this
>> Omni Angle also got
>> me to Tokyo on 5 watts just last week.  So, based on my experience,
>> the Omni Angle is a
>> competitive antenna for a restrictive home QTH, for portable work
>> and, in my case, for
>> "stationary mobile" where I drive to a scenic rest stop, drop a
>> fiberglass pole into my
>> hombrew mount on my VW Bug, hoist an antenna that's significantly
>> better than a Hamstick,
>> and enjoy ham radio.
>>
>> Hope this helps to answer your questions, Vic, as well as those of
>> other Listers with
>> antenna restrictions.
>>
>> 73, Stan WB2LQF
>>
>>
>>
>>   On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Vic K2VCO wrote:
>>
>>> How high was the 44' doublet?
>>>
>>> How was it oriented compared to the Omni Angle antenna?
>>>
>>> Is the doublet in inverted V or horizontal configuration?
>>>
>>> I am finding this interesting because I am soon moving to an
>>> antenna-restricted location.
>>>
>>> On 9/26/2013 6:57 AM, stan levandowski wrote:
>>>>   About 3 weeks ago, I learned about a new "miracle antenna" -  I
>>>> usually dismiss such
>>>> nonsense because there *is* no miracle antenna.  However, the
>>>> person who informed me is a
>>>> trusted, capable, educated ham and DXpeditioner who is not easily
>>>> impressed.
>>>>
>>>> I still don't believe in "miracles" but this 2.5 lb, 7 by 4 foot,
>>>> easy up/easy down, no
>>>> tools required, easy-to-tune $99 new product by Dale Parfitt
>>>> [designer of the PAR End
>>>> FedZ series] offers a realistic alternative to those with severe
>>>> antenna restrictions,
>>>> attic installations, SOTA needs, and so on.  It is easily mounted
>>>> on a Jackite or similar
>>>> fiberglass pole. Just put it on and slide it down until it's a good
>>>> friction fit.
>>>>
>>>> The antenna is resonant for a single band ( choose: 20, 17, 15, 12,
>>>> 10 or 6) and
>>>> additional matchboxes can be purchased for around $25 each.
>>>>
>>>> I bought the 17 meter version and in two weeks of non-scientific,
>>>> casual A/B testing
>>>> against my 44' doublet, the Omni Angle has been equal or better on
>>>> receive the majority of
>>>> times and about the same on transmit.  On receive it seems notaby
>>>> less noisy than my
>>>> doublet.  It is horizontally polarized.
>>>>
>>>> I don't want to create an antenna controversy here on proper
>>>> antenna testing techniques --
>>>> I seem to have a flair for doing  that -- ;)
>>>>
>>>> But I do want to pass along info on this new product which might be
>>>> very useful to those
>>>> of us who have to live with antenna restrictions or who need
>>>> options for effective
>>>> portable operations.
>>>>
>>>> Here is a short Youtube video I cobbled together to demonstrate my
>>>> 17 meter PAR Omni
>>>> Angle.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGTq4zVAW_w
>>>>
>>>> 73, Stan WB2LQF
>
> --
> Vic, K2VCO
> Fresno CA
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
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Re: The Joy of QRP

Rick M0LEP
In reply to this post by Rick Johnson-2
On Thu 26 Sep Rick Johnson wrote:
> QRP puts the onus on the receiving station.
> No problem transmitting 5W.

If you want to make contacts with a QRP station you need to pay a lot
more attention to your antenna. You will likely make things a bit easier
for the other end of the QSO if you push that 5 watts into a good
antenna than if you push it into something that's more dummy load...

Of course, your QRP station is also a receiving station, and a good
antenna matters there, too. As we're fond of saying to our licence
training course pupils; "You can't work them if you can't hear them."

I also use my KX3 as a home rig for SOTA chasing (and other things).
Sure, it'll run to 12 watts on the home PSU, so not quite QRP, but you
still need to make those watts count...

--
... 73, Rick, M0LEP

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