Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

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Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

KD8NNU

When our plasma TV is on it has a very strong interference that no
combination of the NB, NR, or Filters have any effect on the K3.

I am wondering if an active audio filtering system such as the DHL out
of England may help.

I have searched the web for ideas and I have not found anything for
ideas on how to elemiante this problem.

One thing I know for sure is that I took a day off and unplugged the TV
and the bands were all workable today.  Ok I could hear but I need some
more kick to be heard.

KD8NNU
Don
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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

Don Wilhelm-4
  Don,

Plasma TVs are like that - sounds like you need to line up for the Black
Friday deals on TVs on Friday :-)

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/24/2010 8:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> When our plasma TV is on it has a very strong interference that no
> combination of the NB, NR, or Filters have any effect on the K3.
>
> I am wondering if an active audio filtering system such as the DHL out
> of England may help.
>
> I have searched the web for ideas and I have not found anything for
> ideas on how to elemiante this problem.
>
> One thing I know for sure is that I took a day off and unplugged the TV
> and the bands were all workable today.  Ok I could hear but I need some
> more kick to be heard.
>
> KD8NNU
> Don
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

KD8NNU
In reply to this post by KD8NNU
Its my wifes TV I have to live with it.




On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Don,
>
> Plasma TVs are like that - sounds like you need to line up for the
> Black Friday deals on TVs on Friday :-)
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 11/24/2010 8:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> When our plasma TV is on it has a very strong interference that no
>> combination of the NB, NR, or Filters have any effect on the K3.
>>
>> I am wondering if an active audio filtering system such as the DHL
>> out
>> of England may help.
>>
>> I have searched the web for ideas and I have not found anything for
>> ideas on how to elemiante this problem.
>>
>> One thing I know for sure is that I took a day off and unplugged the
>> TV
>> and the bands were all workable today.  Ok I could hear but I need
>> some
>> more kick to be heard.
>>
>> KD8NNU
>> Don
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

Jim Cox
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
I think it is time to dump the plasma tv.. They are nothing but RFI
generators...  Certainly not compatible with Amateur Radio...

Jim K4JAF

'
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.


>  Don,
>
> Plasma TVs are like that - sounds like you need to line up for the Black
> Friday deals on TVs on Friday :-)
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 11/24/2010 8:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> When our plasma TV is on it has a very strong interference that no
>> combination of the NB, NR, or Filters have any effect on the K3.
>>
>> I am wondering if an active audio filtering system such as the DHL out
>> of England may help.
>>
>> I have searched the web for ideas and I have not found anything for
>> ideas on how to elemiante this problem.
>>
>> One thing I know for sure is that I took a day off and unplugged the TV
>> and the bands were all workable today.  Ok I could hear but I need some
>> more kick to be heard.
>>
>> KD8NNU
>> Don
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

Jim Wiley-2
In reply to this post by KD8NNU
So buy her a new TV for Christmas.   Seems a simple enough solution to
the problem.  Have it "turn out" that her present TV has some sort of
radiation leakage problem or something, and you're only looking out for
her.


- Jim, KL7CC



[hidden email] wrote:
> Its my wifes TV I have to live with it.
>
>  
>
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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

AC7AC
In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

Jim Cox
Amen, take it back if RFI.....  And stay away from Plasma TVs...

Jim K4JAF


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.


> These days when I buy *any* appliance it's with the understanding I can
> get
> a full refund if I find it creates RFI issues.
>
> Frustrating that our current laissez-faire approach to business in America
> has robbed the FCC of any ability to put a stop to these emitters.
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
>  Don,
>
> Plasma TVs are like that - sounds like you need to line up for the Black
> Friday deals on TVs on Friday :-)
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 11/24/2010 8:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> When our plasma TV is on it has a very strong interference that no
>> combination of the NB, NR, or Filters have any effect on the K3.
>>
>> I am wondering if an active audio filtering system such as the DHL out
>> of England may help.
>>
>> I have searched the web for ideas and I have not found anything for
>> ideas on how to elemiante this problem.
>>
>> One thing I know for sure is that I took a day off and unplugged the TV
>> and the bands were all workable today.  Ok I could hear but I need some
>> more kick to be heard.
>>
>> KD8NNU
>> Don
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

K2QI
In reply to this post by Jim Cox
Tis true they are RFI generators, but plasma black levels are still much
better than LCD, LCOS, or DLP sets.  Only thing that's better in that area
are tube televisions.

As a movie buff, I can't stand black crush, so I live with my Panasonic
plasma.  When I do QRV, the fix is simple; I turn the TV off.  That takes
care of most of my television-related noise.  I can't however do much about
the RFI given off by my neighbor's plasma sets, so I still have to find an
effective way of nulling out that interference.

73,
James K2QI

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Jim Cox <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think it is time to dump the plasma tv.. They are nothing but RFI
> generators...  Certainly not compatible with Amateur Radio...
>
> Jim K4JAF
>
>
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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

Eugene Balinski
In reply to this post by KD8NNU
All,

    An active noise cancellor such as the JPS ANC-4 may
really help. You have to stop or minimize the noise before
it gets in to the radio.

Place the ANC-4 sense antenna as close to the offending TV
as possible and then adjust the controls for best noise
reduction.

73,

  Gene K1NR

Happy Thanksgiving



On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:17:48 -0500 (EST)
 [hidden email] wrote:

> Its my wifes TV I have to live with it.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
> > Don,
> >
> > Plasma TVs are like that - sounds like you need to line
> up for the
> > Black Friday deals on TVs on Friday :-)
> >
> > 73,
> > Don W3FPR
> >
> > On 11/24/2010 8:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> >> When our plasma TV is on it has a very strong
> interference that no
> >> combination of the NB, NR, or Filters have any effect
> on the K3.
> >>
> >> I am wondering if an active audio filtering system
> such as the DHL
> >> out
> >> of England may help.
> >>
> >> I have searched the web for ideas and I have not found
> anything for
> >> ideas on how to elemiante this problem.
> >>
> >> One thing I know for sure is that I took a day off and
> unplugged the
> >> TV
> >> and the bands were all workable today.  Ok I could
> hear but I need
> >> some
> >> more kick to be heard.
> >>
> >> KD8NNU
> >> Don
> >>
>
______________________________________________________________

> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>
>
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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

Jeff Cochrane - VK4XA
In reply to this post by KD8NNU
My pet hate!
My 3 next door neighbours each have at least 2 of the damned plasma TV's.
There is not alot you can do except to complain to the FCC / ACMA / whatever your liocencing body is called about the interference.
There's a reason that they (Plasma TV's) have been banned in the EU zone, now you know what is was.
I do have it on good authority that a transmission at high power on or about 14.3MHz does wonders for the Plasma's power supplies though.
maybe that me be an option.

Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF
Innisfail, QLD, Australia
Elecraft K3# 4257

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: [hidden email]
  To: [hidden email]
  Cc: [hidden email]
  Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 12:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.


  Its my wifes TV I have to live with it.




  On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

  > Don,
  >
  > Plasma TVs are like that - sounds like you need to line up for the
  > Black Friday deals on TVs on Friday :-)
  >
  > 73,
  > Don W3FPR
  >
  > On 11/24/2010 8:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
  >> When our plasma TV is on it has a very strong interference that no
  >> combination of the NB, NR, or Filters have any effect on the K3.
  >>
  >> I am wondering if an active audio filtering system such as the DHL
  >> out
  >> of England may help.
  >>
  >> I have searched the web for ideas and I have not found anything for
  >> ideas on how to elemiante this problem.
  >>
  >> One thing I know for sure is that I took a day off and unplugged the
  >> TV
  >> and the bands were all workable today.  Ok I could hear but I need
  >> some
  >> more kick to be heard.
  >>
  >> KD8NNU
  >> Don
  >> ______________________________________________________________
  >> Elecraft mailing list
  >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
  >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
  >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
  >>
  >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
  >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
  >>
  ______________________________________________________________
  Elecraft mailing list
  Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
  Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
  Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Jeff Cochrane - VK4XA
Innisfail, QLD, Australia.
K3 #4767
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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

Steve Ellington
Will 14.3 Mhz distroy the plasma's power supply?
N4LQ
Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.


> My pet hate!
> My 3 next door neighbours each have at least 2 of the damned plasma TV's.
> There is not alot you can do except to complain to the FCC / ACMA /
> whatever your liocencing body is called about the interference.
> There's a reason that they (Plasma TV's) have been banned in the EU zone,
> now you know what is was.
> I do have it on good authority that a transmission at high power on or
> about 14.3MHz does wonders for the Plasma's power supplies though.
> maybe that me be an option.
>
> Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF
> Innisfail, QLD, Australia
> Elecraft K3# 4257
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: [hidden email]
>  To: [hidden email]
>  Cc: [hidden email]
>  Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 12:17 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it
> out.
>
>
>  Its my wifes TV I have to live with it.
>
>
>
>
>  On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
>  > Don,
>  >
>  > Plasma TVs are like that - sounds like you need to line up for the
>  > Black Friday deals on TVs on Friday :-)
>  >
>  > 73,
>  > Don W3FPR
>  >
>  > On 11/24/2010 8:10 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>  >> When our plasma TV is on it has a very strong interference that no
>  >> combination of the NB, NR, or Filters have any effect on the K3.
>  >>
>  >> I am wondering if an active audio filtering system such as the DHL
>  >> out
>  >> of England may help.
>  >>
>  >> I have searched the web for ideas and I have not found anything for
>  >> ideas on how to elemiante this problem.
>  >>
>  >> One thing I know for sure is that I took a day off and unplugged the
>  >> TV
>  >> and the bands were all workable today.  Ok I could hear but I need
>  >> some
>  >> more kick to be heard.
>  >>
>  >> KD8NNU
>  >> Don
>  >> ______________________________________________________________
>  >> Elecraft mailing list
>  >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>  >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>  >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>  >>
>  >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>  >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>  >>
>  ______________________________________________________________
>  Elecraft mailing list
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>
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> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

Julian, G4ILO
In reply to this post by K2QI
K2QI wrote
As a movie buff, I can't stand black crush, so I live with my Panasonic
plasma.  When I do QRV, the fix is simple; I turn the TV off.
Not much help for those of us who want to go on the radio while the wife watches dross on TV. I just read in the EMC column in RadCom that mains borne interference is radiated best on the frequency at which the antenna cable is a quarter wave. That explains why my interference is worst on 20m, since 16ft 6in is just about the length of the run of cable from ground level to the typical mounting height of the satellite dish.

I just live in dread of the day when a neighbour installs solar panels. From the same mag one ham experienced S9+ interference from a neighbouring estate and after a year's investigation Ofcom informed him there was nothing they could do about it.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

David Cutter
2 points to make:

in the EMC column in RadCom that mains
> borne interference is radiated best on the frequency at which the antenna
> cable is a quarter wave. That explains why my interference is worst on
> 20m,
> since 16ft 6in is just about the length of the run of cable from ground
> level to the typical mounting height of the satellite dish.
> > Julian, G4ILO

I wonder if the old technique of hi-pass filter and braid breaker will work,
they're cheap and worth a try, but you do have to get to your neighbour.


Secondly, the concern about ruining the performance of the rx with noise
phase cancelling boxes did not draw attention to the DX Engineering version
which, they say, is specifically designed to provide very high TOI.  They
are expensive of course.  I have no connection with them and I don't own
one, but I'm thinking about it.

David
G3UNA

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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

Jim Wiley-2

KL7DTH and myself share a station.  We have a DX engineering NCC-1 box
specifically purchased to remove interference from the neighbor's plasma
TV.   Once we figured out how to  use the unit, it  completely removes
the trash from the plasma RFI generator.  And we mean completely - zip,
nada, nothing left.  It does not seem to detract from the intended
signal at all.  


We use the NCC-1 primarily  on 75 meters, but it also works on 160 and
40.   We are blessed with what is otherwise a very quiet receiving
location.  Our noise level on 75 and 40 meters is S-zero, on 160 is is
about S-1.   We use a full-sized cubical quad on 75 meters, arranged in
a NVIS (vertical firing) configuration.  We have similar antennas for
160 and 40, all made of wire and strung among the trees on our 2.5 acre,
or just a bit more than a hectare for our metric friends.  


Some points:  The :sense" or "noise" antenna needs to be located as
close as possible to the noise source.  


The sense antenna need not be very high.  In fact you want it to perform
poorly on the frequency you  are trying to hear.  


The sense antenna need not be resonant.  As long as it gets enough noise
signal to do the job, stop there. Resist the temptation to make the
sense antenna perform like an ordinary ham antenna.


We first tried a noise antenna about 200 feet away from the source, but
performance was not impressive.  We then erected a non-resonant dipole
about 15 feet high but right on the property line between us and the
neighbor.   The results were immediate and impressive.  Adjusting the
controls of the NCC-1 resulted in complete cancellation of the plasma TV
hash, and signals that were completely covered by the hash popped out of
the noise and came in loud and clear.


Some further points:  First, the usual disclaimers apply - no
connection, etc.  Next. there are other units that may work equally well
on this type of noise.  We have only tried the one unit, and it worked,
so we stopped looking.  It should be quite possible to homebrew one of
these units.  There is no "rocket science" here.   Parts should be
easily  available.  I seem to remember that a design for  something like
this appeared in  one of the RSGB or ARRL handbooks a while back.    The
NCC-1 is intended, according to DX engineering's literature,  primarily
for steering phased arrays, with a secondary use for interference  
reduction.

On Topic note - considering the potential for assisting QRP operations,
it seems to me that this type of unit would be a good candidate for an
Elecraft kit.   I know I would like one in a footprint small enough to
carry around with my K2.


- Jim, KL7CC


 

David Cutter wrote:
>
> Secondly, the concern about ruining the performance of the rx with noise
> phase cancelling boxes did not draw attention to the DX Engineering version
> which, they say, is specifically designed to provide very high TOI.
>  
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Re: Plasma TV Noise any ideas on how to filter it out.

daleputnam

I'll certainly second this suggestion, especially in concideration that the 160m test is coming, and the lack of
hearing by many is extremely one sided, compared to the amount of signal from some of the stations.
 Some of the stations would benefit immensely from this addition. However, I would certainly think that there would be a
market for this for the K3 along with the K2.
 

--... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy




> On Topic note - considering the potential for assisting QRP operations,
> it seems to me that this type of unit would be a good candidate for an
> Elecraft kit. I know I would like one in a footprint small enough to
> carry around with my K2.
>
>
> - Jim, KL7CC
>
>
>
     
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