Power has disappeared

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
28 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Power has disappeared

Chris Kimball
I'm a new owner and all worked fine.  After an absence of a few days I came back to no power out, or , at least, very little.

Rig is the 100W version with ATU working into a dummy load.  In CW mode adjusting the power level to 70W produces only a one segment power out. Running the ATU produces a 5W indication, the usual searching rumbling, but no resultant SWR. The Test mode is NOT in operation.

I have restored to the last working config via K3 Utility, but suspect I must have "hit" something to limit the power.  The FP and AMP temps were too high (35C) when the problem was noticed. I set them down to a more reasonable 23C without effect. Input voltage is 12.8V.

Probably something trivial, but suggestions would be appreciated.

Chris
NQ8Z
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared

Phil Wheeler-2
K3 or K3s?

On 7/26/16 5:48 PM, Chris Kimball wrote:

> I'm a new owner and all worked fine.  After an absence of a few days I came
> back to no power out, or , at least, very little.
>
> Rig is the 100W version with ATU working into a dummy load.  In CW mode
> adjusting the power level to 70W produces only a one segment power out.
> Running the ATU produces a 5W indication, the usual searching rumbling, but
> no resultant SWR. The Test mode is NOT in operation.
>
> I have restored to the last working config via K3 Utility, but suspect I
> must have "hit" something to limit the power.  The FP and AMP temps were too
> high (35C) when the problem was noticed. I set them down to a more
> reasonable 23C without effect. Input voltage is 12.8V.
>
> Probably something trivial, but suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Chris
> NQ8Z

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared

Ken Arck
In reply to this post by Chris Kimball
Obvious question - did you check it with an external wattmeter/dummy load?


At 05:48 PM 7/26/2016, Chris Kimball wrote:

>I'm a new owner and all worked fine.  After an absence of a few days I came
>back to no power out, or , at least, very little.
>
>Rig is the 100W version with ATU working into a dummy load.  In CW mode
>adjusting the power level to 70W produces only a one segment power out.
>Running the ATU produces a 5W indication, the usual searching rumbling, but
>no resultant SWR. The Test mode is NOT in operation.
>
>I have restored to the last working config via K3 Utility, but suspect I
>must have "hit" something to limit the power.  The FP and AMP temps were too
>high (35C) when the problem was noticed. I set them down to a more
>reasonable 23C without effect. Input voltage is 12.8V.
>
>Probably something trivial, but suggestions would be appreciated.
>
>Chris
>NQ8Z
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Power-has-disappeared-tp7620735.html
>Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>Message delivered to [hidden email]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared

Richard Fjeld-2
In reply to this post by Chris Kimball
I don't think you stated, so I will ask;
Did you check the circuit breaker in back?

Dick, n0ce


On 7/26/2016 7:48 PM, Chris Kimball wrote:

> I'm a new owner and all worked fine.  After an absence of a few days I came
> back to no power out, or , at least, very little.
>
> Rig is the 100W version with ATU working into a dummy load.  In CW mode
> adjusting the power level to 70W produces only a one segment power out.
> Running the ATU produces a 5W indication, the usual searching rumbling, but
> no resultant SWR. The Test mode is NOT in operation.
>
> I have restored to the last working config via K3 Utility, but suspect I
> must have "hit" something to limit the power.  The FP and AMP temps were too
> high (35C) when the problem was noticed. I set them down to a more
> reasonable 23C without effect. Input voltage is 12.8V.
>
> Probably something trivial, but suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Chris
> NQ8Z
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Power-has-disappeared-tp7620735.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Power has disappeared, additional info.

Chris Kimball
Thanks to all who responded.  Alas, the problem continues.

Let me respond to the queries to date:

1. The rig is a recent K3S (100W).
2. The KPAT is on, "PA nor".
3. The circuit breaker seems fine.  No red showing on button, button feels loose.
4. Operation is into a dummy load, without wattmeter.

I've tried using the TUNE button, setting the TUN PWR level to 20W. On pushing TUNE, the panel says 0 W, even though it was set to 20W.

In CW mode, the ALC shows reasonable ALC movement on CW sending.  RF output remains at 1 segment.

Note: No error message has been received of any kind.  All operation, other than RF output, is fine.

The last contact I had before leaving on the trip was on SSB just to set up the mike. All worked fine on 20 m.  Perhaps I "hit" something in playing with SSB.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared, additional info.

Barry Simpson
Hi Chris

It sounds as if you have put the rig into Test mode - the middle button on
the far left of the front panel.

Barry  VK2BJ

On 27 July 2016 at 21:34, Chris Kimball <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks to all who responded.  Alas, the problem continues.
>
> Let me respond to the queries to date:
>
> 1. The rig is a recent K3S (100W).
> 2. The KPAT is on, "PA nor".
> 3. The circuit breaker seems fine.  No red showing on button, button feels
> loose.
> 4. Operation is into a dummy load, without wattmeter.
>
> I've tried using the TUNE button, setting the TUN PWR level to 20W. On
> pushing TUNE, the panel says 0 W, even though it was set to 20W.
>
> In CW mode, the ALC shows reasonable ALC movement on CW sending.  RF output
> remains at 1 segment.
>
> Note: No error message has been received of any kind.  All operation, other
> than RF output, is fine.
>
> The last contact I had before leaving on the trip was on SSB just to set up
> the mike. All worked fine on 20 m.  Perhaps I "hit" something in playing
> with SSB.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Power-has-disappeared-tp7620735p7620748.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared, additional info, part 2.

Chris Kimball
Thanks for the comments.

The rig is NOT in the TEST mode, that is, the display TX is not flashing.  Holding the TEST mode produces informative messages in the VFO B area both on turn on and turn off.  I'm not certain that the TEST mode produces ANY indication at all in the RF scale.

I've bypassed both the KPAT and KAT and set the power to 10W.  Into a dummy load I still get just one segment in the RF output, the segment being about twice the width of the end tick on the RF scale.  There is a distinctive click in going below 13W output.

The rig has only 1 receiver and that receiver has the general coverage option. I've tried operating on 80, 40, and 20m with the same no-output result.

Just reloaded the latest firmware with K3 Utility. No change in RF output, unfortunately.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared, additional info, part 2.

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Have you tried an external wattmeter to check for power output?

When you make your tests, have you looked at the current draw (use the
internal current measuring capability)?  What is the current with the
rig set to high power (100W) and low power (10W)?

Have you checked the hardware on the low power amplifier (motherboard
and bottom cover)?

Question 1 is an attempt to determine if the internal wattmeter has
failed.

Question 2 is an attempt to determine if the 8.12 MHz (IF) trap has
opened.

Question 3 leads to the possibility that the pre-driver has failed
because of insufficient heat sinking (loose hardware).

If your rig started life as a 10W radio and you have the PA jumper
board, I would also recommend removing the KPA3/switching board
and installing the jumper to conduct low power tests.

Beyond this, I suspect you should be contacting [hidden email]
to arrange for factory support/return for diagnosis/repair.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 7/27/2016 9:29 AM, Chris Kimball wrote:

> Thanks for the comments.
>
> The rig is NOT in the TEST mode, that is, the display TX is not flashing.
> Holding the TEST mode produces informative messages in the VFO B area both
> on turn on and turn off.  I'm not certain that the TEST mode produces ANY
> indication at all in the RF scale.
>
> I've bypassed both the KPAT and KAT and set the power to 10W.  Into a dummy
> load I still get just one segment in the RF output, the segment being about
> twice the width of the end tick on the RF scale.  There is a distinctive
> click in going below 13W output.
>
> The rig has only 1 receiver and that receiver has the general coverage
> option. I've tried operating on 80, 40, and 20m with the same no-output
> result.
>
> Just reloaded the latest firmware with K3 Utility. No change in RF output,
> unfortunately.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Power-has-disappeared-tp7620735p7620752.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared, additional info, part 3.

Chris Kimball
In reply to this post by Chris Kimball

K6MKF suggested I run the Calibrate Transmitter Gain function from K3 Utility. The rig failed at both the 5 and 50W levels because the output was inadequate.  I think it may be a hardware problem.

Operator ineptitude is still a possibility!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared, additional info, part 2.

Chris Kimball
In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4


Alas, I don't have a wattmeter in the shack. So I can't answer Joe's question 1.

The current drains are:

Receive: 1.02
Transmit 10W:  2.74
Transmit 50W:  2.73

The rig is factory built and arrived only last week.  I've never opened it up as I have no static protection gear. The rig doesn't rattle, however.

I'll contact Elecraft to see what they recommend.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared

Richard Fjeld-2
In reply to this post by Chris Kimball
I apologize for this, but being it's a new rig it has to be said; could
there be any confusion in the antenna jack selection?
I haven't followed how it is equipped.

Dick, n0ce


On 7/26/2016 7:48 PM, Chris Kimball wrote:

> I'm a new owner and all worked fine.  After an absence of a few days I came
> back to no power out, or , at least, very little.
>
> Rig is the 100W version with ATU working into a dummy load.  In CW mode
> adjusting the power level to 70W produces only a one segment power out.
> Running the ATU produces a 5W indication, the usual searching rumbling, but
> no resultant SWR. The Test mode is NOT in operation.
>
> I have restored to the last working config via K3 Utility, but suspect I
> must have "hit" something to limit the power.  The FP and AMP temps were too
> high (35C) when the problem was noticed. I set them down to a more
> reasonable 23C without effect. Input voltage is 12.8V.
>
> Probably something trivial, but suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Chris
> NQ8Z
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared, additional info, part 2.

Joe Subich, W4TV-4
In reply to this post by Chris Kimball

The relative currents indicate little if any drive.  I would begin to
suspect a failure in the predriver.

 > I'll contact Elecraft to see what they recommend.

I think that's your best bet given the symptoms and the fact that you
have a week old factory assembled rig.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV

On 7/27/2016 10:41 AM, Chris Kimball wrote:

>
>
> Alas, I don't have a wattmeter in the shack. So I can't answer Joe's
> question 1.
>
> The current drains are:
>
> Receive: 1.02
> Transmit 10W:  2.74
> Transmit 50W:  2.73
>
> The rig is factory built and arrived only last week.  I've never opened it
> up as I have no static protection gear. The rig doesn't rattle, however.
>
> I'll contact Elecraft to see what they recommend.
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Power-has-disappeared-tp7620735p7620756.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared

Nr4c
In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld-2
Couple questions:

1) What radio, K3 or K3S, or K2/100?

2) which antenna, 1 or 2?

3) You said you turned the “temps down to a more reasonable 23C…”  I don’t recall a temp setting, only a REF to current room temperature calibration step.

4) What is the voltage shown on the front panel display?

…billc nr4c



> On Jul 27, 2016, at 11:52 AM, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I apologize for this, but being it's a new rig it has to be said; could there be any confusion in the antenna jack selection?
> I haven't followed how it is equipped.
>
> Dick, n0ce
>
>
> On 7/26/2016 7:48 PM, Chris Kimball wrote:
>> I'm a new owner and all worked fine.  After an absence of a few days I came
>> back to no power out, or , at least, very little.
>>
>> Rig is the 100W version with ATU working into a dummy load.  In CW mode
>> adjusting the power level to 70W produces only a one segment power out.
>> Running the ATU produces a 5W indication, the usual searching rumbling, but
>> no resultant SWR. The Test mode is NOT in operation.
>>
>> I have restored to the last working config via K3 Utility, but suspect I
>> must have "hit" something to limit the power.  The FP and AMP temps were too
>> high (35C) when the problem was noticed. I set them down to a more
>> reasonable 23C without effect. Input voltage is 12.8V.
>>
>> Probably something trivial, but suggestions would be appreciated.
>>
>> Chris
>> NQ8Z
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared

Chris Kimball

Thanks, Bill.

1. The rig is a K3S(100)-F which I received last Tuesday, 19 July.  It has both the antenna tuner and the general coverage option on the one and only receiver.

2. The rig has the antenna tuner and the dummy load is on antenna 2. It matches my existing K2/KAT/KPA connections,
so I'm familiar with having 2 antennas.

3. As received the front panel and amplifier temperatures shown were 35C.  The rig was much cooler than that, so I calibrated both temperatures with a room thermometer as described in the manual.

4. The voltage on the panel was 12.8V.  It comes from a bank of 3 35A-h batteries and varies only slightly under load.

5. As suggested, I checked the PowerPoles and they're OK.  Nothing in the operation is intermittant.

I'm waiting on an RMA from Elecraft.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared

N4BP
3. I would set the temp calibration back to where it was before shipping it back to Elecraft.

Especially since it appears that is the only change you made before the loss of power occurred.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared

Chris Kimball


I received the Return Service Authorization (RSA) on 27 July. I was able to persuade Elecraft to pay the shipping. I'm awaiting a UPS shipping label from them.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared

Chris Kimball


Received the UPS shipping label today, 4 Aug.  Package shipped.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared

Les Butler
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by Chris Kimball
Sounds like mine. I put mine together and a couple of weeks later no output power. Several e-mails back and forth they suggested I send it back in since it was so new. Only I paid $138 to pack it up and ship it back. They received it in about 5 days, checked it in, the next day repaired it (I bad transistor in the 100 watt amp) then sent it back the next day and 7 days later it's up and running great.

Maybe they got a bad batch of transistors? They paid my return shipping but not the shipping to them, Insurance was as much as ground shipping and another $11 for the second box to pack it in.

Les

It will be interesting if it's the same failure or not.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared

Chris Kimball

Dear Les,

I don't think it's the same problem as my K3S didn't output any power at the 5 W level of the K3 Utility test (See above). The test was done with and without the 100 W amplifier, too.

My rig arrived at Elecraft yesterday, 11 Aug, with a predicted turn around time of 2-3 weeks.

I'll keep all informed as things progress.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Power has disappeared

Les Butler
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
Chris,

Mine failed the 5 watt calibration too. I could never move onto the 50 watt cal because the 5 watt failed. I turned off the 100 watt amp and it still failed. So the e-mail diagnostic was one of 3 failures. Either the 10 watt amp, 100 watt amp or a bandpass filter.

It ended up being final Q8 on the KPA3A. SO it will still be interesting to see what went wrong with yours. It sounds very similar.

Les

12