Precautions or hints on use of Signalink USB with the K3 for PSK31 and JT65A digital modes

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Precautions or hints on use of Signalink USB with the K3 for PSK31 and JT65A digital modes

Robert Nobis - N7RJN
I have ordered a Signaink USB for use with my K3, primarily for PSK31 and
JT65A operation, and expect delivery on Monday.

Does anyone have any precautions or hints on proper setup of the Signalink
for use with the K3?  I use Windows 7 running on a Mac under VMWare Fusion.

73,


Bob - N7RJN


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Re: Precautions or hints on use of Signalink USB with the K3 for PSK31 and JT65A digital modes

k5oai
hope you bought the SignaLink™ USB with cable for the Elecraft K3's rear
panel Line In/Out and PTT jacks, make it a snap to connect

only catch is Win7 has separate controls for each piece of audio
hardware, so you have to also set up the Win7 Playback and Record for
the SignaLink USB, as well as the K3's Line out and the controls on the
face of the SignaLink USB. Easy to do, just realize there is more than
one control causing signal levels to change.

On 01/19/2014 09:48 PM, Robert Nobis wrote:

> I have ordered a Signaink USB for use with my K3, primarily for PSK31 and
> JT65A operation, and expect delivery on Monday.
>
> Does anyone have any precautions or hints on proper setup of the Signalink
> for use with the K3?  I use Windows 7 running on a Mac under VMWare Fusion.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Bob - N7RJN


--
GB & 73
K5OAI
Sam Morgan
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Re: Precautions or hints on use of Signalink USB with the K3 for PSK31 and JT65A digital modes

Robert Nobis - N7RJN
Sam,

Thank you. Yes, I did purchase the special Signalink cable for use with
the K3.

Are there any special K3 setup menu options that need to be set up for use
with the Signalink?

73,


Bob - N7RJN

On 1/19/14, 9:29 PM, "Sam Morgan" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>hope you bought the SignaLink USB with cable for the Elecraft K3's rear
>panel Line In/Out and PTT jacks, make it a snap to connect
>
>only catch is Win7 has separate controls for each piece of audio
>hardware, so you have to also set up the Win7 Playback and Record for
>the SignaLink USB, as well as the K3's Line out and the controls on the
>face of the SignaLink USB. Easy to do, just realize there is more than
>one control causing signal levels to change.
>
>On 01/19/2014 09:48 PM, Robert Nobis wrote:
>> I have ordered a Signaink USB for use with my K3, primarily for PSK31
>>and
>> JT65A operation, and expect delivery on Monday.
>>
>> Does anyone have any precautions or hints on proper setup of the
>>Signalink
>> for use with the K3?  I use Windows 7 running on a Mac under VMWare
>>Fusion.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>>
>> Bob - N7RJN
>
>
>--
>GB & 73
>K5OAI
>Sam Morgan
>


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Re: Precautions or hints on use of Signalink USB with the K3 for PSK31 and JT65A digital modes

Jim Bennett
In reply to this post by Robert Nobis - N7RJN
Hi Bob -

I've used the SLUSB on both a K3 and a KX3 with success. The K3 had it hooked to a MacBook AIr laptop; when I moved the SLUSB to my KX3, I hooked it to an iMac. Nothing special needs to be done on the K3. In my case I ran native in the Mac OS X environment. For PSK31 I used cocoaModem and for JT9 and JT65 I used WSJT-X. Both apps work very well on both the K3 and the KX3 and both Mac hardware platforms. Again, nothing "tricky" about using the SLUSB and the Mac. The "trickyness" comes with the software apps you will be using!!! If your shack experiences any sort of RFI from common mode RF, it can affect the SLUSB. I had that issue and resolved it by winding the USB cable through a 2-1/4" mix 31 donut several times. Of course, getting rid of the common mode RF is the best solution... :-)

Jim / W6JHB
Folsom, CA


On   Sunday, Jan 19, 2014, at  Sunday, 7:48 PM, Robert Nobis wrote:

> I have ordered a Signaink USB for use with my K3, primarily for PSK31 and
> JT65A operation, and expect delivery on Monday.
>
> Does anyone have any precautions or hints on proper setup of the Signalink
> for use with the K3?  I use Windows 7 running on a Mac under VMWare Fusion.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Bob - N7RJN
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Re: Precautions or hints on use of Signalink USB with the K3 for PSK31 and JT65A digital modes

Rick WA6NHC
I've found it best to use minimal K3 output (Lin Out 1) and maxing the
levels on the SLUSB drivers.  Ideally, you want a sprinkling of snow on the
waterfalls, not a blizzard.  I also max the driver TX level then adjust the
Data A level to the proper level.  The knobs on the SLUSB are kept at noon
unless you need a finer tuning for current conditions.

If you see 'echoes' (harmonic related) of a strong signal on the waterfall,
you're overdriving your input; not to be confused with IMD (shadows) being
sent by some when THEY are overdriving their audio.

It's also a great tool for operating remotely by routing Skype audio to/from
the SLUSB and NOT getting OS sounds (or ring sounds) accidentally sent out
on the air.  

You may have small issues on the JT modes if you do not have TCXO as the
transmitter heats up (slight freq drift).  I've always had the TCXO, so I
can't confirm that.  Others may comment about that.  The slower the shift
rate, the more critical the frequency accuracy is.

Thankfully, the line TX setting is separate from the Data A TX level setting
which is also different from the Mic settings so you don't have to
(remotely) reset the levels each time you change modes.  Great job Elecraft!

73,
Rick wa6nhc
Cameron Park, Ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Bennett

Hi Bob -

I've used the SLUSB on both a K3 and a KX3 with success. The K3 had it
hooked to a MacBook AIr laptop; when I moved the SLUSB to my KX3, I hooked
it to an iMac. Nothing special needs to be done on the K3. In my case I ran
native in the Mac OS X environment. For PSK31 I used cocoaModem and for JT9
and JT65 I used WSJT-X. Both apps work very well on both the K3 and the KX3
and both Mac hardware platforms. Again, nothing "tricky" about using the
SLUSB and the Mac. The "trickyness" comes with the software apps you will be
using!!! If your shack experiences any sort of RFI from common mode RF, it
can affect the SLUSB. I had that issue and resolved it by winding the USB
cable through a 2-1/4" mix 31 donut several times. Of course, getting rid of
the common mode RF is the best solution... :-)

Jim / W6JHB
Folsom, CA


On   Sunday, Jan 19, 2014, at  Sunday, 7:48 PM, Robert Nobis wrote:

> I have ordered a Signaink USB for use with my K3, primarily for PSK31 and
> JT65A operation, and expect delivery on Monday.
>
> Does anyone have any precautions or hints on proper setup of the Signalink
> for use with the K3?  I use Windows 7 running on a Mac under VMWare
Fusion.
>
> 73,
>
>
> Bob - N7RJN

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Re: Precautions or hints on use of Signalink USB with the K3 for PSK31 and JT65A digital modes

Robert Nobis - N7RJN
Hi Rick,

Thank you. When I ordered my K3 I ordered the TCXO option, as I was
planning on eventually trying the digital modes. Just wondering, what
software do you use for the JT modes?

73,


Bob

On 1/19/14, 11:04 PM, "Rick Bates" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I've found it best to use minimal K3 output (Lin Out 1) and maxing the
>levels on the SLUSB drivers.  Ideally, you want a sprinkling of snow on
>the
>waterfalls, not a blizzard.  I also max the driver TX level then adjust
>the
>Data A level to the proper level.  The knobs on the SLUSB are kept at noon
>unless you need a finer tuning for current conditions.
>
>If you see 'echoes' (harmonic related) of a strong signal on the
>waterfall,
>you're overdriving your input; not to be confused with IMD (shadows) being
>sent by some when THEY are overdriving their audio.
>
>It's also a great tool for operating remotely by routing Skype audio
>to/from
>the SLUSB and NOT getting OS sounds (or ring sounds) accidentally sent out
>on the air.  
>
>You may have small issues on the JT modes if you do not have TCXO as the
>transmitter heats up (slight freq drift).  I've always had the TCXO, so I
>can't confirm that.  Others may comment about that.  The slower the shift
>rate, the more critical the frequency accuracy is.
>
>Thankfully, the line TX setting is separate from the Data A TX level
>setting
>which is also different from the Mic settings so you don't have to
>(remotely) reset the levels each time you change modes.  Great job
>Elecraft!
>
>73,
>Rick wa6nhc
>Cameron Park, Ca
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Bennett
>
>Hi Bob -
>
>I've used the SLUSB on both a K3 and a KX3 with success. The K3 had it
>hooked to a MacBook AIr laptop; when I moved the SLUSB to my KX3, I hooked
>it to an iMac. Nothing special needs to be done on the K3. In my case I
>ran
>native in the Mac OS X environment. For PSK31 I used cocoaModem and for
>JT9
>and JT65 I used WSJT-X. Both apps work very well on both the K3 and the
>KX3
>and both Mac hardware platforms. Again, nothing "tricky" about using the
>SLUSB and the Mac. The "trickyness" comes with the software apps you will
>be
>using!!! If your shack experiences any sort of RFI from common mode RF, it
>can affect the SLUSB. I had that issue and resolved it by winding the USB
>cable through a 2-1/4" mix 31 donut several times. Of course, getting rid
>of
>the common mode RF is the best solution... :-)
>
>Jim / W6JHB
>Folsom, CA
>
>
>On   Sunday, Jan 19, 2014, at  Sunday, 7:48 PM, Robert Nobis wrote:
>
>> I have ordered a Signaink USB for use with my K3, primarily for PSK31
>>and
>> JT65A operation, and expect delivery on Monday.
>>
>> Does anyone have any precautions or hints on proper setup of the
>>Signalink
>> for use with the K3?  I use Windows 7 running on a Mac under VMWare
>Fusion.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>>
>> Bob - N7RJN
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


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Re: Precautions or hints on use of Signalink USB with the K3 for PSK31 and JT65A digital modes

Rick WA6NHC
In reply to this post by Rick WA6NHC
While I don't use the modes often because it takes too long for a QSO (with no real chatting), I have WSJT9, WSPR and JT65-HF ready to go.

73,
Rick wa6nhc

Tiny iPhone 5 keypad, typos are inevitable

> On Jan 20, 2014, at 7:53 AM, Robert Nobis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> Thank you. When I ordered my K3 I ordered the TCXO option, as I was
> planning on eventually trying the digital modes. Just wondering, what
> software do you use for the JT modes?
>
> 73,
>
>
> Bob
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Re: Precautions or hints on use of Signalink USB with the K3 for PSK31 and JT65A digital modes

Thomas Taylor
In reply to this post by Robert Nobis - N7RJN
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 21:40:11 -0700
Robert Nobis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sam,
>
> Thank you. Yes, I did purchase the special Signalink cable for use with
> the K3.
>
> Are there any special K3 setup menu options that need to be set up for use
> with the Signalink?
>
> 73,
>
>
> Bob - N7RJN
>
> On 1/19/14, 9:29 PM, "Sam Morgan" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >hope you bought the SignaLink_ USB with cable for the Elecraft K3's rear
> >panel Line In/Out and PTT jacks, make it a snap to connect
> >
> >only catch is Win7 has separate controls for each piece of audio
> >hardware, so you have to also set up the Win7 Playback and Record for
> >the SignaLink USB, as well as the K3's Line out and the controls on the
> >face of the SignaLink USB. Easy to do, just realize there is more than
> >one control causing signal levels to change.
> >
> >On 01/19/2014 09:48 PM, Robert Nobis wrote:
> >> I have ordered a Signaink USB for use with my K3, primarily for PSK31
> >>and
> >> JT65A operation, and expect delivery on Monday.
> >>
> >> Does anyone have any precautions or hints on proper setup of the
> >>Signalink
> >> for use with the K3?  I use Windows 7 running on a Mac under VMWare
> >>Fusion.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >>
> >>
> >> Bob - N7RJN
> >
> >
> >--
> >GB & 73
> >K5OAI
> >Sam Morgan
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Has anyone used this device with a K-2?  I haven't finished assembling the K-2
but will want to use the Signalink-USB with it when completed.  Are there any
special gotchas?

Thanks & 73, Tom KG7CFC

--
Never be ashamed to ask for information. The ignorant man will always be
ignorant if he fears that by asking he will display ignorance
  -  Booker T Washington

^^  --...  ...--  / -.-  --.  --...  -.-.  ..-.  -.-.

^^^^
Tom Taylor - retired penguin - KG7CFC
AMD Phenom II x4 955 -- 4GB RAM -- 2x1.5TB sata2
openSUSE 13.1_RC2-x86_64
KDE 4.11.12, FF 24.0, claws-mail 3.9.2
registered linux user 263467
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Re: K2 Signalink USB

Dennis Moore
On 1/20/2014 10:09 AM, Thomas Taylor wrote:
> Has anyone used this device with a K-2?  I haven't finished assembling the K-2
> but will want to use the Signalink-USB with it when completed.  Are there any
> special gotchas?
I use a Signalink USB with my K2. USB between PC and Signalink,
SL-USB-8R cable between Signalink and K2 front panel Mic connector. I
built a fixed audio output board and wired it to a spare pin on the Mic
header so I have receive audio going to the Signalink, reduces cable
clutter. Pretty simple to build on perfboard.
Use the Signalink wiring diagram here (under Elecraft heading, 8-pin
Round Mic Connector), I connected the SPKR to pin 5:
http://www.tigertronics.com/sl_wirebm.htm

Here's the circuit for the fixed audio output, fits nicely behind front
panel.
http://www2.opparc.org/mirrors/n0ss/www.n0ss.net/w3fpr_fixed_af_output_for_the_k2_v2r1.pdf

Contact me for updated Mouser part numbers, including the perfboard I
used, and I'll also send pictures of the component layout that worked
for me.

73, Dennis NJ6G
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Re: K2 Signalink USB

Eric J
I  also use the Signalink USB with a K2 with a little different layout.

I used Don's audio board, but I used a tiny 10K trimpot in place of the
voltage divider for output. I mounted it on the left side panel with
foam tape. You can easily remove the side panel for access to the amp.
The output goes to a jack on the rear panel in a hole for adding the
transverters.

Since I didn't know what might be needed for levels and wasn't sure I
wanted a perf board accessory in my K2, I wanted more access than if I
stuck it behind the front panel. I anticipated having to go back in
several times, but that didn't turn out to be the case. I like Dennis'
approach in hindsight as there is only one connecting cable between the
K2 and the Signalink.

Eric
KE6US


On 1/20/2014 10:48 AM, Dennis Moore wrote:

> On 1/20/2014 10:09 AM, Thomas Taylor wrote:
>> Has anyone used this device with a K-2?  I haven't finished
>> assembling the K-2
>> but will want to use the Signalink-USB with it when completed. Are
>> there any
>> special gotchas?
> I use a Signalink USB with my K2. USB between PC and Signalink,
> SL-USB-8R cable between Signalink and K2 front panel Mic connector. I
> built a fixed audio output board and wired it to a spare pin on the
> Mic header so I have receive audio going to the Signalink, reduces
> cable clutter. Pretty simple to build on perfboard.
> Use the Signalink wiring diagram here (under Elecraft heading, 8-pin
> Round Mic Connector), I connected the SPKR to pin 5:
> http://www.tigertronics.com/sl_wirebm.htm
>
> Here's the circuit for the fixed audio output, fits nicely behind
> front panel.
> http://www2.opparc.org/mirrors/n0ss/www.n0ss.net/w3fpr_fixed_af_output_for_the_k2_v2r1.pdf 
>
>
> Contact me for updated Mouser part numbers, including the perfboard I
> used, and I'll also send pictures of the component layout that worked
> for me.
>
> 73, Dennis NJ6G
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

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Re: K2 Signalink USB

KC6CNN
In reply to this post by Dennis Moore
I use a Signalink with my K2 and it works good. I also have the fixed audio
going to the Signalink. Get you volume controls set in windows and adjust
the ALC until only one bar lights. Make sure to stay with in the power
limit of the rig. For K2 / 10 I use 4 to 5 watts. For the K2/100 I don't
think I have used more than 25 watts on PSK.
But it shines in CW mode. Great cw receiver and Signalink will decode good.
Gud luck
Gerald - KC6CNN
On Jan 20, 2014 12:48 PM, "Dennis Moore" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 1/20/2014 10:09 AM, Thomas Taylor wrote:
>
>> Has anyone used this device with a K-2?  I haven't finished assembling
>> the K-2
>> but will want to use the Signalink-USB with it when completed.  Are there
>> any
>> special gotchas?
>>
> I use a Signalink USB with my K2. USB between PC and Signalink, SL-USB-8R
> cable between Signalink and K2 front panel Mic connector. I built a fixed
> audio output board and wired it to a spare pin on the Mic header so I have
> receive audio going to the Signalink, reduces cable clutter. Pretty simple
> to build on perfboard.
> Use the Signalink wiring diagram here (under Elecraft heading, 8-pin Round
> Mic Connector), I connected the SPKR to pin 5:
> http://www.tigertronics.com/sl_wirebm.htm
>
> Here's the circuit for the fixed audio output, fits nicely behind front
> panel.
> http://www2.opparc.org/mirrors/n0ss/www.n0ss.net/
> w3fpr_fixed_af_output_for_the_k2_v2r1.pdf
>
> Contact me for updated Mouser part numbers, including the perfboard I
> used, and I'll also send pictures of the component layout that worked for
> me.
>
> 73, Dennis NJ6G
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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KC6CNN - Gerald
K3 # 6294
KX3 # 757
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Re: Precautions or hints on use of Signalink USB with the K3 for PSK31 and JT65A digital modes

macforsale
In reply to this post by Robert Nobis - N7RJN
First attempt to respond to a thread on this reflector so not sure if I am headed in the correct direction.

I had trouble with my K3 "power hunting". That is at the beginning of the JT65 or JT9 transmission the output power would be 10 watts and slowly move up several watts during the 48 second transmission. Now I could keep it at 10 watts, but had to turn down the audio from the front panel of the SIgnaLink USB.

Turns out my setup like I had used with other transceivers (Flex3K, IC7000) which was to set the rigs power to 100% and adjust the audio level for 10 watts or whatever I wanted does not work with the K3.

Set the audio input to 4 to 5 flickering bars on the ALC meter scale. Power can be set to zero or TEST mode as you don't need any power out. Once that was done the "power hunting" stopped and it would go to the power level set by the PWR knob. Interesting that if set to say 10 watts it will jump to 8-9 drift up to 10 on the first transmission on that band. After the 1st transmission it goes to 10 watts immediately. Seems like there is still some level of "power hunting". Not sure what to make of that yet.

KE5MC, Mike
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Re: Precautions or hints on use of Signalink USB with the K3 for PSK31 and JT65A digital modes

Don Wilhelm-4
Mike,

Your post was just fine.  You are correct, the K3 behaves differently
than other rigs, so you must drive the audio and set the power differently.

The K3 power starts out lower and builds up to the requested level -
that should happen in just a second or two.  I *believe* it takes a
little longer with the more constant audio of digital modes than it does
with SSB syllabic speech or intermittent CW.   IMHO, that is a whole lot
better than having a power spike at the beginning as happens with some
other rigs which depend on ALC to control the power output.  The
K2/K3/KX3 power control system is a closed loop with the processor
inside the loop, so it must sense the actual power output before any
correction is applied.

If you want to circumvent that buildup, transmit briefly into a dummy
load right after a band change or a change in the setting of the power
control or a mode change.  As you have observed, it only happens on the
first transmission.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/21/2014 12:25 PM, macforsale wrote:

> First attempt to respond to a thread on this reflector so not sure if I am headed in the correct direction.
>
> I had trouble with my K3 "power hunting". That is at the beginning of the JT65 or JT9 transmission the output power would be 10 watts and slowly move up several watts during the 48 second transmission. Now I could keep it at 10 watts, but had to turn down the audio from the front panel of the SIgnaLink USB.
>
> Turns out my setup like I had used with other transceivers (Flex3K, IC7000) which was to set the rigs power to 100% and adjust the audio level for 10 watts or whatever I wanted does not work with the K3.
>
> Set the audio input to 4 to 5 flickering bars on the ALC meter scale. Power can be set to zero or TEST mode as you don't need any power out. Once that was done the "power hunting" stopped and it would go to the power level set by the PWR knob. Interesting that if set to say 10 watts it will jump to 8-9 drift up to 10 on the first transmission on that band. After the 1st transmission it goes to 10 watts immediately. Seems like there is still some level of "power hunting". Not sure what to make of that yet.
>
> KE5MC, Mike
>

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Re: K2 Signalink USB

Thomas Taylor
In reply to this post by Eric J
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 12:15:31 -0800
EricJ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I  also use the Signalink USB with a K2 with a little different layout.
>
> I used Don's audio board, but I used a tiny 10K trimpot in place of the
> voltage divider for output. I mounted it on the left side panel with
> foam tape. You can easily remove the side panel for access to the amp.
> The output goes to a jack on the rear panel in a hole for adding the
> transverters.
>
> Since I didn't know what might be needed for levels and wasn't sure I
> wanted a perf board accessory in my K2, I wanted more access than if I
> stuck it behind the front panel. I anticipated having to go back in
> several times, but that didn't turn out to be the case. I like Dennis'
> approach in hindsight as there is only one connecting cable between the
> K2 and the Signalink.
>
> Eric
> KE6US
>
>
> On 1/20/2014 10:48 AM, Dennis Moore wrote:
> > On 1/20/2014 10:09 AM, Thomas Taylor wrote:
> >> Has anyone used this device with a K-2?  I haven't finished
> >> assembling the K-2
> >> but will want to use the Signalink-USB with it when completed. Are
> >> there any
> >> special gotchas?
> > I use a Signalink USB with my K2. USB between PC and Signalink,
> > SL-USB-8R cable between Signalink and K2 front panel Mic connector. I
> > built a fixed audio output board and wired it to a spare pin on the
> > Mic header so I have receive audio going to the Signalink, reduces
> > cable clutter. Pretty simple to build on perfboard.
> > Use the Signalink wiring diagram here (under Elecraft heading, 8-pin
> > Round Mic Connector), I connected the SPKR to pin 5:
> > http://www.tigertronics.com/sl_wirebm.htm
> >
> > Here's the circuit for the fixed audio output, fits nicely behind
> > front panel.
> > http://www2.opparc.org/mirrors/n0ss/www.n0ss.net/w3fpr_fixed_af_output_for_the_k2_v2r1.pdf 
> >
> >
> > Contact me for updated Mouser part numbers, including the perfboard I
> > used, and I'll also send pictures of the component layout that worked
> > for me.
> >
> > 73, Dennis NJ6G
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Thanks to all for the comments and information.  Sounds like I shouldn't have
any problems using the SignalinkUSB with my K2.

Tom  KG7CFC

--
Never be ashamed to ask for information. The ignorant man will always be
ignorant if he fears that by asking he will display ignorance
  -  Booker T Washington

^^  --...  ...--  / -.-  --.  --...  -.-.  ..-.  -.-.

^^^^
Tom Taylor - retired penguin - KG7CFC
AMD Phenom II x4 955 -- 4GB RAM -- 2x1.5TB sata2
openSUSE 13.1_RC2-x86_64
KDE 4.11.12, FF 24.0, claws-mail 3.9.2
registered linux user 263467
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