Unhappy With Your KX3?

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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Bill W4ZV
Harry White wrote
To answer your last question, there is no XYZ radio that I wish I had
bought. Nothing has the capabilities/specifications of the KX3 at the
present time. It's the KX3 or a giant step back to the FT-817ND.

So there you have it Kevin. I own a $1400 paperweight that may someday be
transformed into a great radio. My advice to you is to wait a bit longer to
see how the radio evolves.
Waiting is actually very good advice for some folks.  Elecraft products always offer cutting edge performance.  That's been true for the K2 and K3 as well as the KX3.  When first introduced, nearly all have some hardware/firmware birthing issues.  If you're not willing to live with these issues in return for the performance, you should definitely wait "a bit longer".  "How much longer?" can be monitored by the frequency/severity of hardware/firmware issues mentioned on this list.  The K3 is now a very stable product...but it took a good year to reach that stage with several significant mods (APF, AGC, etc) not being implemented until several years after introduction.  Would I have wanted to wait?  Definitely not to get the K3's unique diversity performance I needed.

If you NEED the KX3 performance now, rest assured that any birthing issues will eventually be resolved and you will NOT need to upgrade to a completely new model (a la IC-756, PRO, PRO2, PRO3, etc).  And BTW Icom and Yaesu frequently advertise features which will NEVER be implemented (e.g. claiming roofing filter bandwidths twice as narrow as they actually were...IC7800/7700, FT2000/9000, etc).  Elecraft does not do that.

73,  Bill  W4ZV


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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Oliver Dröse
In reply to this post by Frank Precissi
Frank,

was that in- or outside of warranty time? If outside then what's the
problem? Don't expect Elecraft to do repairs for free out of warranty, they
won't! Even Elecraft have to make some profit and pay their employees ...
;-) And be sure electronice can fail (even twice as in your case). Only
because Elecraft is putting things into their radios does not mean they are
failure-excluded ...

73, Olli - DH8BQA



----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Precissi" <[hidden email]>
> When it comes down to the brass tacks (having my IC-746pro sent back to
> have the VFO encoder replaced not once, but twice and me footing the bill
> both times), good customer service will keep me coming back.

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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Oliver Dröse
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
> This radio is designed for backpacking, and for use with
> earphones.  It is designed to maximize battery life.  It is NOT
> primarily a desktop radio intended to be used with its internal speaker,
> or even with a passive outboard speaker.

Hi Jim,

well, I would not agree on that points with you. Elecraft is marketing the
KX3 as a backpack AND desktop radio (with not available KXPA100 and
KXAT100). They also lay some emphazise on it being perfectly for newcomers,
etc. So I expect it to work with the internal speaker in shack situations,
too, not only with headphones. As I would expect from any other radio, too.
But the KX3 does the job okay in the (quiet) shack, as long as you don't
expect it to provide sound & loudness like a stereo system. ;-)

73, Olli - DH8BQA


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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Thomas Horsten
Hi Olli,

Agree that it is marketed as a multi-purpose rig and it does it damned well
too. With external powered speakers I would expect it to be excellent and
that's my experience with it too. If it doesn't play well with the external
speakers how can it play well with headphones.

With just the internal speaker, sorry but did you actually look at the size
of that thing, considering its size it actually performs really well, but
not to hook up external speakers when used as a base station rig is IMHO
just foolish, the internal speaker is fine for operating outside on the
terrace table or out in the woods (in relatively quiet surroundings), but
if you have it in your shack then what's the big problem hooking up
external speakers and getting *excellent* audio with stereo FX and dual
watch.

The K3 has a much bigger speaker (surprise surprise) but even that misses
the stereo (essential with the sub receiver) and it's got *nothing* on my
AudioEngine A2 speakers, which I use for both my K3 and KX3 in the shack.

In general I find it nicer to operate with speakers than with headset but
for portable operations a headset is sometimes the most practical, and also
at home if there are other people in the house doing noisy things or not
appreciating the sounds from the rig.

73, Thomas M0TRN

On 4 August 2012 11:59, Oliver Dröse <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> well, I would not agree on that points with you. Elecraft is marketing the
> KX3 as a backpack AND desktop radio (with not available KXPA100 and
> KXAT100). They also lay some emphazise on it being perfectly for newcomers,
> etc. So I expect it to work with the internal speaker in shack situations,
> too, not only with headphones. As I would expect from any other radio, too.
> But the KX3 does the job okay in the (quiet) shack, as long as you don't
> expect it to provide sound & loudness like a stereo system. ;-)
>
> 73, Olli - DH8BQA
>
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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Joe Subich, W4TV-4
In reply to this post by Oliver Dröse

> Elecraft is marketing the KX3 as a backpack AND desktop radio (with
> not available KXPA100 and KXAT100).

If Elecraft are marketing the KX3 as anything other than a trail radio
the design missed the mark by 5 km.  Given the under powered speaker,
lack of headphone amplifier, and lack of separate line in and line out
audio connections, the rig is severely lacking is the "home station"
department - particularly for digital (RTTY/PSK/JT65/etc.) operation.

Further, with a SIS-570 based local oscillator and direct conversion
the jury is still out as to whether the phase noise/reciprocal mixing
performance is sufficient for use in strong signal (receive) and high
power (> 10W) transmit environments.  Unless SiS have improved their
products greatly or Wayne has some magic in his implementation, I am
very concerned (witness the phase noise in the XG3).

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 8/4/2012 6:59 AM, Oliver Dröse wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
>> This radio is designed for backpacking, and for use with
>> earphones.  It is designed to maximize battery life.  It is NOT
>> primarily a desktop radio intended to be used with its internal speaker,
>> or even with a passive outboard speaker.
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> well, I would not agree on that points with you. Elecraft is marketing the
> KX3 as a backpack AND desktop radio (with not available KXPA100 and
> KXAT100). They also lay some emphazise on it being perfectly for newcomers,
> etc. So I expect it to work with the internal speaker in shack situations,
> too, not only with headphones. As I would expect from any other radio, too.
> But the KX3 does the job okay in the (quiet) shack, as long as you don't
> expect it to provide sound & loudness like a stereo system. ;-)
>
> 73, Olli - DH8BQA
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Oliver Dröse
In reply to this post by Thomas Horsten
Hi Thomas,

all your points are perfectly okay. It is not about how to handle it and if does physically fit or not, it is about expectations from Elecraft's marketing. I have no problem with pluggin headphones or external speakers in. Nevertheless I would still expect from a rig marketed (not designed!) as a base station rig to provide sufficient audio from it's internal speaker. And it's nothing new or magic, even the now 11 years old FT-817 provides enough "oomph" from it's internal speaker if wanted. ;-)

So again, it's only about expectations that marketing awakes. Just some food for thought to Elecraft. The same applies when a rig is marketed as having 2 voice keyer memories to name a dedicated feature. As a buyer reading that marketing sentences I simply expect when I switch on the rig that I will be able to use those 2 voice memories. But wait, they are not there! Uuh. Elecraft said, it will take a few more month'! Well, this is not what I expect when I read their datasheets and prospects. They are stirring up expectations they cannot hold for the moment, especially for first time buyers!

Again, I personally have no problem with all this, I can wait and use my own voice keyer solutions (just to stay with this one example) in-between. Nevertheless we have a few first-time Elecraft buyers overhere who are quite disappointed about what is not functioning yet although features are described in the user manual as well as marketed in the ads. Nobody told them that those features will only be available a few month' or even a year later. >From discussions I know that some of them will never buy from Elecraft again. Those customers are lost and that's a pity.

So it is all about wrongly set expectations through marketing (and yes, every customer might expect different things - that's why good marketing is not really easy ... otherwise everybody could do it ;-)). Long time Elecraft users (like myself) know what to expect and how new transceivers evolve over time. New users don't. They simply expect to find working what they read in the manual and ads when they first switch on the rig. They take it for granted as they are used to it from all other radio manufacturers and daily-used electronics, too!

73, Olli - DH8BQA


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Thomas Horsten
  To: Oliver Dröse
  Cc: [hidden email]
  Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 1:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Unhappy With Your KX3?


  Hi Olli,


  Agree that it is marketed as a multi-purpose rig and it does it damned well too. With external powered speakers I would expect it to be excellent and that's my experience with it too. If it doesn't play well with the external speakers how can it play well with headphones.


  With just the internal speaker, sorry but did you actually look at the size of that thing, considering its size it actually performs really well, but not to hook up external speakers when used as a base station rig is IMHO just foolish, the internal speaker is fine for operating outside on the terrace table or out in the woods (in relatively quiet surroundings), but if you have it in your shack then what's the big problem hooking up external speakers and getting *excellent* audio with stereo FX and dual watch.


  The K3 has a much bigger speaker (surprise surprise) but even that misses the stereo (essential with the sub receiver) and it's got *nothing* on my AudioEngine A2 speakers, which I use for both my K3 and KX3 in the shack.


  In general I find it nicer to operate with speakers than with headset but for portable operations a headset is sometimes the most practical, and also at home if there are other people in the house doing noisy things or not appreciating the sounds from the rig.


  73, Thomas M0TRN


  On 4 August 2012 11:59, Oliver Dröse <[hidden email]> wrote:

    Hi Jim,

    well, I would not agree on that points with you. Elecraft is marketing the
    KX3 as a backpack AND desktop radio (with not available KXPA100 and
    KXAT100). They also lay some emphazise on it being perfectly for newcomers,
    etc. So I expect it to work with the internal speaker in shack situations,
    too, not only with headphones. As I would expect from any other radio, too.
    But the KX3 does the job okay in the (quiet) shack, as long as you don't
    expect it to provide sound & loudness like a stereo system. ;-)

    73, Olli - DH8BQA


  E-Mail ist virenfrei.
  Von AVG überprüft - www.avg.de
  Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virendatenbank: 2437/5175 - Ausgabedatum: 03.08.2012
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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Andrew Moore-3
In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
The KX3 isn't a replacement for the K3, nor is it only a trail rig (that's
what the KX1 is).

I'm thinking more like they hit the target, which I suspect is "portable
performance."

Works great on my desktop (and in the field), been using it daily.

--Andrew, NV1B
..


On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > Elecraft is marketing the KX3 as a backpack AND desktop radio (with
> > not available KXPA100 and KXAT100).
>
> If Elecraft are marketing the KX3 as anything other than a trail radio
> the design missed the mark by 5 km.  Given the under powered speaker,
> lack of headphone amplifier, and lack of separate line in and line out
> audio connections, the rig is severely lacking is the "home station"
> department - particularly for digital (RTTY/PSK/JT65/etc.) operation.
>
>
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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

michael-2
In reply to this post by Kevin Kleinfelter
Hello Kevin

I put myself in your place about a year and a half ago, had an aging kenwood ts-850sat (about 20 years) and was looking to replace it, I have had others offering to sell me there older radios (746, 756, 756 pro III) but I could not afford there prices ($2000.00 plus) for such older radios. Then I remembered seeing an Elecraft ad and decided to look and read about there radios. I have decided to order a K1-4 sn#3046 and a W2 wattmeter (mainly cause I like to build kits) and then after putting it together and herring it for the first time I thought WOW this is a very nice radio (for a kit) it seemed better then my kenwood, not to long after that the kenwood died (RIP, some module had fallen off the bottom inside), so now I was looking for a new rig to replace it. Like you I do not have a lot of money that I could not spend for a new
radio (I am not retired, I have a small farm and still paying for a $40,000.00 tractor, still have to work 40+ hours plus commute time), so after looking and deciding I have placed an order for a KX3 (knowing it would be about 6 month out), I grew a little impatient not having an all mode rig so I have decided to order a basic K3/10 kit sn#6596 so I have had something to use and try all this new (to me) stuff that is talked about. My opinion on what I have so far is my K3 is just fantastic and have been able to learn about the radio controls and the new stuff (once again to me) and not having to blow the budget to be back on the air (when I have a little spare time from everything else I have to do) and as budget will allow to be able to add modules down the road to it (might take me a couple of years), I have not grown impatient waiting for the KX3 (kit), but when it does arrive I am sure it will be as nice as the K3.

Michael  N8NOC

Yes I'm still a Technician class and no I do not spend my time on VHF/UHF
(hope to make general before year end)

Sent from my Mac-mini

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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Frank Precissi
In reply to this post by Oliver Dröse
It was barely out of warranty, and it was a known issue/defect with the
radio.  This is after I had to send in my IC706 mkII in for going deaf.

I dont have a problem paying for repairs, I understand that stuff fails,
but the company's communication with me should be a little more than "do
you want us to repair this for $foo".

Frank - KG6EYC

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 3:46 AM, Oliver Dröse <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Frank,
>
> was that in- or outside of warranty time? If outside then what's the
> problem? Don't expect Elecraft to do repairs for free out of warranty, they
> won't! Even Elecraft have to make some profit and pay their employees ...
> ;-) And be sure electronice can fail (even twice as in your case). Only
> because Elecraft is putting things into their radios does not mean they are
> failure-excluded ...
>
> 73, Olli - DH8BQA
>
>
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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Richard-3
In reply to this post by Oliver Dröse
I'm curious, where has Elecraft advertised or marketed the KX3 as a
"base station" radio?  My quick review only finds portable operation
references.  The only references to base station use I find is from user
comments.  Am I missing  something?

Rich
NU6T

On 8/4/2012 6:42 AM, Oliver Dröse wrote:

> Hi Thomas,
>
> all your points are perfectly okay. It is not about how to handle it and if does physically fit or not, it is about expectations from Elecraft's marketing. I have no problem with pluggin headphones or external speakers in. Nevertheless I would still expect from a rig marketed (not designed!) as a base station rig to provide sufficient audio from it's internal speaker. And it's nothing new or magic, even the now 11 years old FT-817 provides enough "oomph" from it's internal speaker if wanted. ;-)
>
> So again, it's only about expectations that marketing awakes. Just some food for thought to Elecraft. The same applies when a rig is marketed as having 2 voice keyer memories to name a dedicated feature. As a buyer reading that marketing sentences I simply expect when I switch on the rig that I will be able to use those 2 voice memories. But wait, they are not there! Uuh. Elecraft said, it will take a few more month'! Well, this is not what I expect when I read their datasheets and prospects. They are stirring up expectations they cannot hold for the moment, especially for first time buyers!
>
> Again, I personally have no problem with all this, I can wait and use my own voice keyer solutions (just to stay with this one example) in-between. Nevertheless we have a few first-time Elecraft buyers overhere who are quite disappointed about what is not functioning yet although features are described in the user manual as well as marketed in the ads. Nobody told them that those features will only be available a few month' or even a year later. >From discussions I know that some of them will never buy from Elecraft again. Those customers are lost and that's a pity.
>
> So it is all about wrongly set expectations through marketing (and yes, every customer might expect different things - that's why good marketing is not really easy ... otherwise everybody could do it ;-)). Long time Elecraft users (like myself) know what to expect and how new transceivers evolve over time. New users don't. They simply expect to find working what they read in the manual and ads when they first switch on the rig. They take it for granted as they are used to it from all other radio manufacturers and daily-used electronics, too!
>
> 73, Olli - DH8BQA
>
>
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Thomas Horsten
>    To: Oliver Dröse
>    Cc: [hidden email]
>    Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 1:49 PM
>    Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Unhappy With Your KX3?
>
>
>    Hi Olli,
>
>
>    Agree that it is marketed as a multi-purpose rig and it does it damned well too. With external powered speakers I would expect it to be excellent and that's my experience with it too. If it doesn't play well with the external speakers how can it play well with headphones.
>
>
>    With just the internal speaker, sorry but did you actually look at the size of that thing, considering its size it actually performs really well, but not to hook up external speakers when used as a base station rig is IMHO just foolish, the internal speaker is fine for operating outside on the terrace table or out in the woods (in relatively quiet surroundings), but if you have it in your shack then what's the big problem hooking up external speakers and getting *excellent* audio with stereo FX and dual watch.
>
>
>    The K3 has a much bigger speaker (surprise surprise) but even that misses the stereo (essential with the sub receiver) and it's got *nothing* on my AudioEngine A2 speakers, which I use for both my K3 and KX3 in the shack.
>
>
>    In general I find it nicer to operate with speakers than with headset but for portable operations a headset is sometimes the most practical, and also at home if there are other people in the house doing noisy things or not appreciating the sounds from the rig.
>
>
>    73, Thomas M0TRN
>
>
>    On 4 August 2012 11:59, Oliver Dröse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>      Hi Jim,
>
>      well, I would not agree on that points with you. Elecraft is marketing the
>      KX3 as a backpack AND desktop radio (with not available KXPA100 and
>      KXAT100). They also lay some emphazise on it being perfectly for newcomers,
>      etc. So I expect it to work with the internal speaker in shack situations,
>      too, not only with headphones. As I would expect from any other radio, too.
>      But the KX3 does the job okay in the (quiet) shack, as long as you don't
>      expect it to provide sound & loudness like a stereo system. ;-)
>
>      73, Olli - DH8BQA
>
>
>    E-Mail ist virenfrei.
>    Von AVG überprüft - www.avg.de
>    Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virendatenbank: 2437/5175 - Ausgabedatum: 03.08.2012
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

PTA_ABD
In reply to this post by Kevin Kleinfelter
I may have missed reading it, but I'd like to comment about being unhappy with a rig. Because of the nature of todays' rigs, it's pretty easy for the user ... I repeat ... the user to set bit up so that it sounds like a piece of junk. I recall a fellow who was so unhappy with his K3, he sold it off and went back to ICOM. I got a chance to see that rig ... AGC numbers all over the place, RX EQ maxed out for the highest frequencies ... sure did sound like crap. It doesn't anymore. BTW, the ICOM is now gone too...

Am I 100 per cent happy?  No. I don't have the tactile functions to disassemble the paddle, file contacts or cut and set springs. Shouldn't have had to given the price of that option. No line-in/line-out setup like the K3. But the most galling of all, for a mobile op, is waiting for the companion amplifier .... but understand this ... I'm not shopping for a substitution ... I know what I want.

Outside of that, I find the KX3 most enjoyable, even in a contest situation. It doesn't play like a second-stringer.

Paul WB2ABD
K3 129
KX3 149

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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Dave KK7SS
In reply to this post by Kevin Kleinfelter
Many years ago I was told that if you're going to sit on the cutting edge of technology, then you'd better be ready to take a few nicks!

That's why I have a box of Band-Aids.

Is my KX3 perfect for *my* purposes?
Not Yet!.... 
But as an evolving product, it's getting close <g>

"Perfection is a moving target"


--
Dave G  KK7SS
Richland, WA

KX3 #097
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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

k6dgw
In reply to this post by Richard-3
On 8/4/2012 2:36 PM, Rich wrote:
> I'm curious, where has Elecraft advertised or marketed the KX3 as a
> "base station" radio?  My quick review only finds portable operation
> references.  The only references to base station use I find is from user
> comments.  Am I missing  something?
>
> Rich
> NU6T
Don't think so Rich.  I too have looked and don't think Elecraft has
ever *marketed* the KX3 as a home station radio, although it could
certainly be used that way.  So could an FT-817, K2 [I know of several
in that sort of service], or even a K1.   An ATS3x could be used that
way too ... not its design goal however.  If "it" receives and makes RF,
you can use it at home.  Everything I've heard from Elecraft, both in
print [QST ads] and in person [Pacificon and elsewhere] have put the KX3
in the class of a "highly portable transceiver with a lot of K3-like
performance and features."   I've also never heard or seen it promoted
as  an "extreme backpacking trail radio" either, however it probably
could be used as such under at least some trail conditions, although the
KX1 comes to mind as a better choice at night in a tent.

Every time I see a KX3, real or in a photo, it calls out to me, Business
Traveler Radio, followed closely by Leisure Traveler Radio.  I'm
retired, I no longer do business travel, and my KX1, K2,
K3/P3/KPA500/KAT500 are likely going to be it for me in the realm of
Elecraft radios.  But I've never seen the KX3 *marketed* as a home
station radio, just that you can use it there as well as elsewhere.

And to the discussion regarding loudspeaker quality:  Folks, have you
even bothered to look at the size of the KX3 speaker?  Has everyone
forgotten the physics of audio transducers?  If you want incredibly full
and great [near-broadcast quality] audio, I refer you to
http://www.radioblvd.com/Pre-WWII%20Ham%20Gear.htm ... scroll down near
the bottom of the page to "Hallicrafters SX-28 and R12 Bass Reflex
Speaker."  I inherited this receiver from the family of "Woody," W6ANX
[SK], some years ago.  The audio quality was incredibly good reminding
me of the AM days when you could still hear the clang of the relays
reverberating in his shack as your QSO buddy brought up his carrier.  I
used it in one Sweepstakes single band CW with an ARC-5 TX.  Very
nostalgic and fun ... for a couple of hours. :-)  And, the SX-28 was
great insurance against the possibility of gravity outages as well.  I
finally donated it to the museum so others could see and hear it and I
highly recommend a visit if you find yourself in historic Virginia City NV.
>
> On 8/4/2012 6:42 AM, Oliver Dröse wrote:
>> Nevertheless I would still expect from a rig marketed (not designed!) as a base station rig to provide sufficient audio from it's internal speaker. And it's nothing new or magic, even the now 11 years old FT-817 provides enough "oomph" from it's internal speaker if wanted. ;-)
Can you point me at any Elecraft advertisements that overtly *market*
the KX3 as a home station transceiver?

73,

Fred K6DGW/7
Sparks NV


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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

N8MSA
This is a great post Fred, and really goes to the heart of the entire "I bought a cat when I really wanted a dog, and now I can't the cat to act like a dog" issue that I have just been waiting for to appear here.

I have had the good fortune to use WB8AZP's KX3 at a hamfest, and I think it performs great as a portable radio. It wouldn't make a great base radio FOR ME, but then I'm pretty sure that the KX3 wasn't designed for base use. Every device that I know of is the sum total of a set of design compromises. The design paradigm of the KX3 was clearly "portable operation", so it shouldn't be any surprise that the speaker is small and doesn't sound like an Apogee Scintilla.

It's the same thing with boats - you "can fish from any boat", but don't get mad if the speedboat you bought isn't great for casting into lily pads for bass.


Mike Alexander

[hidden email]

----- Original Message -----
From: "FredJensen" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2012 11:49:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Unhappy With Your KX3?

On 8/4/2012 2:36 PM, Rich wrote:
> I'm curious, where has Elecraft advertised or marketed the KX3 as a
> "base station" radio? My quick review only finds portable operation
> references. The only references to base station use I find is from user
> comments. Am I missing something?
>
> Rich
> NU6T
Don't think so Rich. I too have looked and don't think Elecraft has
ever *marketed* the KX3 as a home station radio, although it could
certainly be used that way. So could an FT-817, K2 [I know of several
in that sort of service], or even a K1. An ATS3x could be used that
way too ... not its design goal however. If "it" receives and makes RF,
you can use it at home. Everything I've heard from Elecraft, both in
print [QST ads] and in person [Pacificon and elsewhere] have put the KX3
in the class of a "highly portable transceiver with a lot of K3-like
performance and features." I've also never heard or seen it promoted
as an "extreme backpacking trail radio" either, however it probably
could be used as such under at least some trail conditions, although the
KX1 comes to mind as a better choice at night in a tent.

Every time I see a KX3, real or in a photo, it calls out to me, Business
Traveler Radio, followed closely by Leisure Traveler Radio. I'm
retired, I no longer do business travel, and my KX1, K2,
K3/P3/KPA500/KAT500 are likely going to be it for me in the realm of
Elecraft radios. But I've never seen the KX3 *marketed* as a home
station radio, just that you can use it there as well as elsewhere.

And to the discussion regarding loudspeaker quality: Folks, have you
even bothered to look at the size of the KX3 speaker? Has everyone
forgotten the physics of audio transducers? If you want incredibly full
and great [near-broadcast quality] audio, I refer you to
http://www.radioblvd.com/Pre-WWII%20Ham%20Gear.htm ... scroll down near
the bottom of the page to "Hallicrafters SX-28 and R12 Bass Reflex
Speaker." I inherited this receiver from the family of "Woody," W6ANX
[SK], some years ago. The audio quality was incredibly good reminding
me of the AM days when you could still hear the clang of the relays
reverberating in his shack as your QSO buddy brought up his carrier. I
used it in one Sweepstakes single band CW with an ARC-5 TX. Very
nostalgic and fun ... for a couple of hours. :-) And, the SX-28 was
great insurance against the possibility of gravity outages as well. I
finally donated it to the museum so others could see and hear it and I
highly recommend a visit if you find yourself in historic Virginia City NV.
>
> On 8/4/2012 6:42 AM, Oliver Dröse wrote:
>> Nevertheless I would still expect from a rig marketed (not designed!) as a base station rig to provide sufficient audio from it's internal speaker. And it's nothing new or magic, even the now 11 years old FT-817 provides enough "oomph" from it's internal speaker if wanted. ;-)
Can you point me at any Elecraft advertisements that overtly *market*
the KX3 as a home station transceiver?

73,

Fred K6DGW/7
Sparks NV


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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Jim Brown-10
On 8/4/2012 9:17 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> "I bought a cat when I really wanted a dog, and now I can't the cat to act like a dog" issue that I have just been waiting for to appear here.

PURRFECT!    This is one I'm gonna remember.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Ken G Kopp
In reply to this post by k6dgw
As usual, a "well said" piece ... (:-))

73!

Ken Kopp - K0PP

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 3:49 PM, FredJensen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 8/4/2012 2:36 PM, Rich wrote:
>> I'm curious, where has Elecraft advertised or marketed the KX3 as a
>> "base station" radio?  My quick review only finds portable operation
>> references.  The only references to base station use I find is from user
>> comments.  Am I missing  something?
>>
>> Rich
>> NU6T
> Don't think so Rich.  I too have looked and don't think Elecraft has
> ever *marketed* the KX3 as a home station radio, although it could
> certainly be used that way.  So could an FT-817, K2 [I know of several
> in that sort of service], or even a K1.   An ATS3x could be used that
> way too ... not its design goal however.  If "it" receives and makes RF,
> you can use it at home.  Everything I've heard from Elecraft, both in
> print [QST ads] and in person [Pacificon and elsewhere] have put the KX3
> in the class of a "highly portable transceiver with a lot of K3-like
> performance and features."   I've also never heard or seen it promoted
> as  an "extreme backpacking trail radio" either, however it probably
> could be used as such under at least some trail conditions, although the
> KX1 comes to mind as a better choice at night in a tent.
>
> Every time I see a KX3, real or in a photo, it calls out to me, Business
> Traveler Radio, followed closely by Leisure Traveler Radio.  I'm
> retired, I no longer do business travel, and my KX1, K2,
> K3/P3/KPA500/KAT500 are likely going to be it for me in the realm of
> Elecraft radios.  But I've never seen the KX3 *marketed* as a home
> station radio, just that you can use it there as well as elsewhere.
>
> And to the discussion regarding loudspeaker quality:  Folks, have you
> even bothered to look at the size of the KX3 speaker?  Has everyone
> forgotten the physics of audio transducers?  If you want incredibly full
> and great [near-broadcast quality] audio, I refer you to
> http://www.radioblvd.com/Pre-WWII%20Ham%20Gear.htm ... scroll down near
> the bottom of the page to "Hallicrafters SX-28 and R12 Bass Reflex
> Speaker."  I inherited this receiver from the family of "Woody," W6ANX
> [SK], some years ago.  The audio quality was incredibly good reminding
> me of the AM days when you could still hear the clang of the relays
> reverberating in his shack as your QSO buddy brought up his carrier.  I
> used it in one Sweepstakes single band CW with an ARC-5 TX.  Very
> nostalgic and fun ... for a couple of hours. :-)  And, the SX-28 was
> great insurance against the possibility of gravity outages as well.  I
> finally donated it to the museum so others could see and hear it and I
> highly recommend a visit if you find yourself in historic Virginia City NV.
>>
>> On 8/4/2012 6:42 AM, Oliver Dröse wrote:
>>> Nevertheless I would still expect from a rig marketed (not designed!) as a base station rig to provide sufficient audio from it's internal speaker. And it's nothing new or magic, even the now 11 years old FT-817 provides enough "oomph" from it's internal speaker if wanted. ;-)
> Can you point me at any Elecraft advertisements that overtly *market*
> the KX3 as a home station transceiver?
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW/7
> Sparks NV
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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Keith Heimbold
In reply to this post by Richard-3
For me and my operating on the road for work the KX3 if the perfect size blended with performance. For me it is the best portable that i have seen with some similar K3 base station like features but with a much diminished form factor.

Recently, I had it temporarily connected in my truck listening on 20m with just a ham stick. I heard Kuwait and New Zealand with good clarity and tone even with the existing smallish speaker. When i was receiving some revving noises through the truck electrical a simple depress of the NB and it was gone. The receiver is super quiet and exceeds by a long shot my former mobile the FT857D. For me it is night and day in comparison in the receive department.

I also used the rig QRP on 20m with my SteppIR at home. The small speaker is ok in the home environs with pups, TV and family in the background, but listening with my cheap Skull Candy ear buds I was amazed how great the radio sounded at higher volumes. I am sold on this portable and believe that it will continue to improve as everything else I have seen from Elecraft in my short experience with their products (approaching one year). I agree it is no base station but that is why there is the K3 to fulfill that need.

Keith
AG6AZ

Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos

On Aug 4, 2012, at 7:36 AM, "Rich" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm curious, where has Elecraft advertised or marketed the KX3 as a
> "base station" radio?  My quick review only finds portable operation
> references.  The only references to base station use I find is from user
> comments.  Am I missing  something?
>
> Rich
> NU6T
>
> On 8/4/2012 6:42 AM, Oliver Dröse wrote:
>> Hi Thomas,
>>
>> all your points are perfectly okay. It is not about how to handle it and if does physically fit or not, it is about expectations from Elecraft's marketing. I have no problem with pluggin headphones or external speakers in. Nevertheless I would still expect from a rig marketed (not designed!) as a base station rig to provide sufficient audio from it's internal speaker. And it's nothing new or magic, even the now 11 years old FT-817 provides enough "oomph" from it's internal speaker if wanted. ;-)
>>
>> So again, it's only about expectations that marketing awakes. Just some food for thought to Elecraft. The same applies when a rig is marketed as having 2 voice keyer memories to name a dedicated feature. As a buyer reading that marketing sentences I simply expect when I switch on the rig that I will be able to use those 2 voice memories. But wait, they are not there! Uuh. Elecraft said, it will take a few more month'! Well, this is not what I expect when I read their datasheets and prospects. They are stirring up expectations they cannot hold for the moment, especially for first time buyers!
>>
>> Again, I personally have no problem with all this, I can wait and use my own voice keyer solutions (just to stay with this one example) in-between. Nevertheless we have a few first-time Elecraft buyers overhere who are quite disappointed about what is not functioning yet although features are described in the user manual as well as marketed in the ads. Nobody told them that those features will only be available a few month' or even a year later. >From discussions I know that some of them will never buy from Elecraft again. Those customers are lost and that's a pity.
>>
>> So it is all about wrongly set expectations through marketing (and yes, every customer might expect different things - that's why good marketing is not really easy ... otherwise everybody could do it ;-)). Long time Elecraft users (like myself) know what to expect and how new transceivers evolve over time. New users don't. They simply expect to find working what they read in the manual and ads when they first switch on the rig. They take it for granted as they are used to it from all other radio manufacturers and daily-used electronics, too!
>>
>> 73, Olli - DH8BQA
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Thomas Horsten
>> To: Oliver Dröse
>> Cc: [hidden email]
>> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 1:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Unhappy With Your KX3?
>>
>>
>> Hi Olli,
>>
>>
>> Agree that it is marketed as a multi-purpose rig and it does it damned well too. With external powered speakers I would expect it to be excellent and that's my experience with it too. If it doesn't play well with the external speakers how can it play well with headphones.
>>
>>
>> With just the internal speaker, sorry but did you actually look at the size of that thing, considering its size it actually performs really well, but not to hook up external speakers when used as a base station rig is IMHO just foolish, the internal speaker is fine for operating outside on the terrace table or out in the woods (in relatively quiet surroundings), but if you have it in your shack then what's the big problem hooking up external speakers and getting *excellent* audio with stereo FX and dual watch.
>>
>>
>> The K3 has a much bigger speaker (surprise surprise) but even that misses the stereo (essential with the sub receiver) and it's got *nothing* on my AudioEngine A2 speakers, which I use for both my K3 and KX3 in the shack.
>>
>>
>> In general I find it nicer to operate with speakers than with headset but for portable operations a headset is sometimes the most practical, and also at home if there are other people in the house doing noisy things or not appreciating the sounds from the rig.
>>
>>
>> 73, Thomas M0TRN
>>
>>
>> On 4 August 2012 11:59, Oliver Dröse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Jim,
>>
>>  well, I would not agree on that points with you. Elecraft is marketing the
>>  KX3 as a backpack AND desktop radio (with not available KXPA100 and
>>  KXAT100). They also lay some emphazise on it being perfectly for newcomers,
>>  etc. So I expect it to work with the internal speaker in shack situations,
>>  too, not only with headphones. As I would expect from any other radio, too.
>>  But the KX3 does the job okay in the (quiet) shack, as long as you don't
>>  expect it to provide sound & loudness like a stereo system. ;-)
>>
>>  73, Olli - DH8BQA
>>
>>
>> E-Mail ist virenfrei.
>> Von AVG überprüft - www.avg.de
>> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virendatenbank: 2437/5175 - Ausgabedatum: 03.08.2012
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

n7ws
In reply to this post by Ken G Kopp
I think somebody at Elecraft must start these threads just to measure interest :-)
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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

Nate Bargmann
In reply to this post by k6dgw
Long ago I came to the conclusion after reading many eham reviews, that
there truly are thhose among us who can break an anvil with a rubber
mallet...

73, de Nate, N0NB >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Re: Unhappy With Your KX3?

ke9uw
And what's more, there are unhappy people. I really mean that...just plain unhappy and nothing escapes their curmudgeon like scrutiny.
BTW, this is a ridiculous thread :)

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 4, 2012, at 12:45 PM, "Nate Bargmann" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Long ago I came to the conclusion after reading many eham reviews, that
> there truly are thhose among us who can break an anvil with a rubber
> mallet...
>
> 73, de Nate, N0NB >>
>
> --
>
> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
>
> Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Chuck, KE9UW
123