W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

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W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

Ron Gould
Has anyone tried either of these products out on a K3 and care to share their results compared to using the built in 8 band equalizer built into the K3.  I am not interested in any comments by others who have not actually tried these out.  If you would like to take this discussion off list please contact me directly.  If someone has these products and is willing to set up a schedule on the air all the better.  Thanks
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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

Jim Brown-10
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 13:59:58 -0700, Ron Gould wrote:

>Has anyone tried either of these products out on a K3 and care to share
>their results compared to using the built in 8 band equalizer built into
>the K3.

As a pro audio guy who has used hundreds of equalizers, I can tell you that
the TX and RX in the K3 are all you need, and that adding anything outboard
would be a waste of money.

73,

Jim K9YC


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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

AD4C2009
>"Has anyone tried either of these products out on a K3 and care to share
>their results compared to using the built in 8 band equalizer built into
>the K3".

Even I don't have those boxes anymore I can tell that about a year and a half ago when I sold my ProIII to replace it for my actual K3,I kept the W2IHY 8 bands EQ and the companion EQ Plus which I used together with the ProIII.
When I received the K3 having its builtin EQ flat I tried those two W2IHY boxes and had no sucess at all,only noise and distorsion was what I got,I ended up selling them up.
As Jim said,the K3 has an excellent 8 bands TX EQ that will allow you to EQ any mic,also it has a builtin noise gate that works great,save your money and don't buy them.
 
AD4C
 

"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"

--- On Mon, 4/26/10, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 1:28 AM


On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 13:59:58 -0700, Ron Gould wrote:

>Has anyone tried either of these products out on a K3 and care to share
>their results compared to using the built in 8 band equalizer built into
>the K3.

As a pro audio guy who has used hundreds of equalizers, I can tell you that
the TX and RX in the K3 are all you need, and that adding anything outboard
would be a waste of money.

73,

Jim K9YC


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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

Bob McGraw - K4TAX
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
I too agree with Jim on this point.  Myself, being a retired pro audio guy
and used lots of microphones and EQ's and processors, I've not seen the need
for EQ on any current production or model ham radios.  Take something made
back in the 50's or 60's  or 70's and they likley could stand some help.
Even today should one use a lousy mike on a new radio and then add
compression, gating and EQ and you'll have a lousy sounding signal with lots
of compression, gating and EQ.  No amount of EQ will make the average hams'
voice sound like Don Pardo.

Microphone and microphone technique is the real secret to good sounding
audio.  Of course one must have the radio adjusted properly and thus not
"all knobs to the right" to make the meter move higher.

73
Bob, K4TAX


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus


> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 13:59:58 -0700, Ron Gould wrote:
>
>>Has anyone tried either of these products out on a K3 and care to share
>>their results compared to using the built in 8 band equalizer built into
>>the K3.
>
> As a pro audio guy who has used hundreds of equalizers, I can tell you
> that
> the TX and RX in the K3 are all you need, and that adding anything
> outboard
> would be a waste of money.
>
> 73,
>
> Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>


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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

Gary Gregory
The only EQ Plus and W2IHY equipment I have heard on air to date have been
little short of dreadful to my ears....But that's MY ears, and they are the
only ones I have and the brains DSP is most likely not that crash hot either
at my age.

Having said that, Jim has hit the nail on the head, and he should know, of
all people.

I listened to a guy with an old Collins and the W2IHY etc...yep it sounded
good..but it sure was wide let me tell you.

Oh well, YMMV but I agree with Jim and Hactor et al, save your money, if you
have the gear, then sell it off I guess.

73's
Gary - VK4FD

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I too agree with Jim on this point.  Myself, being a retired pro audio guy
> and used lots of microphones and EQ's and processors, I've not seen the
> need
> for EQ on any current production or model ham radios.  Take something made
> back in the 50's or 60's  or 70's and they likley could stand some help.
> Even today should one use a lousy mike on a new radio and then add
> compression, gating and EQ and you'll have a lousy sounding signal with
> lots
> of compression, gating and EQ.  No amount of EQ will make the average hams'
> voice sound like Don Pardo.
>
> Microphone and microphone technique is the real secret to good sounding
> audio.  Of course one must have the radio adjusted properly and thus not
> "all knobs to the right" to make the meter move higher.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 8:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus
>
>
>  > On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 13:59:58 -0700, Ron Gould wrote:
> >
> >>Has anyone tried either of these products out on a K3 and care to share
> >>their results compared to using the built in 8 band equalizer built into
> >>the K3.
> >
> > As a pro audio guy who has used hundreds of equalizers, I can tell you
> > that
> > the TX and RX in the K3 are all you need, and that adding anything
> > outboard
> > would be a waste of money.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Jim K9YC
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
>
>
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>



--
Gary
VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/
K3 #679
For everything else there's Mastercard!!!
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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

W7GJ, Lance
In reply to this post by Ron Gould
Hello Ron,

I use a W2IHY 2 band equalizer and noise gate with my K3 and am VERY PLEASED with
the performance.  I highly recommend it!

I don't use it for trying to customize my transmit audio fidelity or anything - I
think you could do that very successfully with the K3 adjustments, if you wanted
to.  As a point in fact, I have never changed my K3 audio output settings at all.

The reason I use the W2IHY unit is for the excellent noise gate that it provides.
  It very effectively cuts out the background blower noise, and I get excellent on
the air reports with it.  When I acquired my K3, I tried to use the noise gate
built into the K3 so I could keep the W2IHY unit connected to my old IC746.
However, I could not seem to adjust the K3 noise gate to avoid getting reports of
audio distortion :-(  So, reluctantly, I had to disable the noise gate in the K3
and return to the external W2IHY unit.

Best wishes for success!  GL and VY 73, Lance

On 4/25/2010 8:59 PM, Ron Gould wrote:
> Has anyone tried either of these products out on a K3 and care to share their
> results compared to using the built in 8 band equalizer built into the K3.  I
> am not interested in any comments by others who have not actually tried these
> out.  If you would like to take this discussion off list please contact me
> directly.  If someone has these products and is willing to set up a schedule on
> the air all the better.  Thanks
> __________________________________

--
Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT  59834  USA
QTH: DN27UB
TEL: (406) 626-5728   URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
LIVE MESSENGER CHAT: [hidden email]
2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815

Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME email!
http://6meme.com/mailman/listinfo/magic_6meme.com
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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

Jim Brown-10
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 16:18:01 +0000, Lance Collister wrote:

> It very effectively cuts out the background blower noise

Some of the major causes of audible background noise are 1) working too
far from the mic; 2) running the mic gain too high; 3) using too much
compression/processing; and 4) not rolling off the low frequencies.

In a noisy environment, it always helps to work close to the mic. It is
ALWAYS good practice to use the minimum mic gain needed to get good
modulation, use no more than about 10dB of compression/processing, and
roll off the low frequency content. It's good engineering practice for the
highest quality broadcast stations, and it's good practice for ham radio.

Indeed, the only difference between what's right for broadcasting and for
ham radio is WHERE to cut the low end and HOW MUCH money to spend on
compression/processing. Many years ago, I sold processing systems for
broadcast stations that cost upwards of $10K in today's dollars, and I
helped the chief engineers of those stations adjust them. I suspect that
W8JI and K4TAX have similar experience. Before I spent ANY money on an
outboard box for a ham rig, I would first follow all of those elements of
good engineering practice.  

73,

Jim Brown K9YC


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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

ab2tc
On the K3 what would be the approximate setting for 10dB compression?

AB2TC - Knut

Jim Brown-10 wrote
<snip>
In a noisy environment, it always helps to work close to the mic. It is
ALWAYS good practice to use the minimum mic gain needed to get good
modulation, use no more than about 10dB of compression/processing, and
roll off the low frequency content. It's good engineering practice for the
highest quality broadcast stations, and it's good practice for ham radio.
<snip again>
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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

Guy, K2AV
Page 26 of D6 owner's manual, text states that the number displayed is
the approximate compression in dB.  Or 10 is 10.

73, Guy.

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 2:56 PM, ab2tc <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On the K3 what would be the approximate setting for 10dB compression?
>
> AB2TC - Knut
>
>
> Jim Brown-10 wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>> In a noisy environment, it always helps to work close to the mic. It is
>> ALWAYS good practice to use the minimum mic gain needed to get good
>> modulation, use no more than about 10dB of compression/processing, and
>> roll off the low frequency content. It's good engineering practice for the
>> highest quality broadcast stations, and it's good practice for ham radio.
>> <snip again>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/W2IHY-8-band-equalizer-and-EQ-Plus-tp4959845p4964331.html
> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

Andy Wood
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
I have to agree strongly with Jim - for me, the K3 does not need any form of external processing or "extras". I receive an unusually high number of unsolicited comments about the quality of my audio. In fact, here is the latest email I have received about it after working a few NA contacts on the 75/80m DX window:

--------------------------------
Hi Andy,

I was talking to David, W6ANR today he informed me you are running K3 transceiver and you had the best audio he has ever heard from any K3. So I am asking if you could give a run down on all your setting as you have them on your radio that pertains to Audio so I can help my neighbor Bob, W9KNI get his dialed in. His sounds lousy and he has always been a CW man but has now been enjoying using the mic instead of the paddle.  He has had comments that he need to dial in his audio so I told him I would help. SO maybe with all your setting etc I can have a good place to start as I am not to familiar with that radio.

I hope your summer was a good for you? Here we are anxious for spring to arrive so I can get out and do some real work out in the yard and get the veggie garden started.
 

Best 73,


Rich K7ZV
--------------------------------

Here is my reply to Rich:

Hi Rich,

Great to hear from you - it has been a long time since we have worked on 80/75m. I haven't been very active lately, due to work and family commitments.

I hope I am not going to disappoint anyone when I reveal my audio setup on the K3 as it is far from spectacular..hi hi. The fist mic I was using is a five dollar CB type that you could find at any hamfest (no kidding!). I have not adjusted the TX equalizer so it is still at the factory default (all "flat"). I do use the compressor, but only allow it to indicate between about 5-10dB on the meter. I also always make sure the ALC bargraph indication is well below the upper limit.  For what it's worth, my mic gain is set to 23 and the compression setting is at 19.

Not very fancy is it? I found the K3 to work well "out of the box". As the old saying goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
--------------------------------

I think this speaks for itself - nothing else required!

Andy  VK4KY
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Re: equalizer

bill steffey

>ins to Audio so I can help my neighbor Bob, W9KNI get his dialed in.
>His sounds lousy and he

if you want a handheld for a K3,,,or K2  or icom...
check out
:http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/WiredMicrophones/us_pro_527C_content

you will notice that this mic has a rising hi end response,,,
popularized by Shure Bros...(not Heil)
for articulation,,,,and works great with ssb,,,,  not flat ,,,

You could drive a car over the case and not hurt it ,,,
the PTT switch will last longer that all of us,,,,not a mini microswich
The cord, more rubber than plastic,  isn't so stiff or thick it will
pull that radio off the shelf.... but close. The 527 requires some
dc,  the 526 is straight dynamic,,,,

while it was made in US now it's made in america,,,,,  mexico I think..

anyway , i've got three   one wired for k3 ,  two for K2/ICOM......

sold at all the usual suspect places,,,,  and cheaper than the piece
of junk from  ...

As far as a great base mic.,,, just about anything will do,
especially if it's an electret ,  as you can eq it to sound like a
telefunken U-47 ribbon, if you wish...

I also have a sennheiser headset...HMD..280, with the d meaning the
boom mic is dynamic... a sennheiser HME  would be an electret.
Found mine at dayton, as an AV lab castaway...  ebay is another
source as new is too much$.
No longer have external eqs here.

I thought any noise gate issues were worked out by lyle.

bill
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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by ab2tc
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:56:50 -0700 (PDT), ab2tc wrote:

>On the K3 what would be the approximate setting for 10dB compression?

Follow instructions in the K3 manual to set the meter to read
compression. Then follow the instructions in the manual for first
setting the mic gain without any compression, and then set the
compression with the compression control.  When you talk, you'll see the
compression bouncing around as you talk. It will start sounding bad when
it goes above 10dB on the hottest voice peaks.

73,

Jim Brown K9YC


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Mel
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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

Mel
Yes, and watch the ALC level while you are doing it.  I found that you can increase the compression and not trip the 5-7 bars of ALC, but it will sound terrible.  Stay below 10 dB of compression and under 5 bars of ALC for the smoothest sound and lack of splatter.  FWIW.

Mel, K6KBE

--- On Mon, 4/26/10, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 3:02 PM

On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:56:50 -0700 (PDT), ab2tc wrote:

>On the K3 what would be the approximate setting for 10dB compression?

Follow instructions in the K3 manual to set the meter to read
compression. Then follow the instructions in the manual for first
setting the mic gain without any compression, and then set the
compression with the compression control.  When you talk, you'll see the
compression bouncing around as you talk. It will start sounding bad when
it goes above 10dB on the hottest voice peaks.

73,

Jim Brown K9YC


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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

ab2tc
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
I am using a Heil Proset, IC element, Mic gain to LO, setting 35 and compression set at 20. With this I can not talk the CMP reading above 10 or the ALC reading above 7. I get good audio reports and just as importantly I get heard remarkably well by DX stations.

AB2TC - Knut

Jim Brown-10 wrote
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:56:50 -0700 (PDT), ab2tc wrote:

>On the K3 what would be the approximate setting for 10dB compression?

Follow instructions in the K3 manual to set the meter to read
compression. Then follow the instructions in the manual for first
setting the mic gain without any compression, and then set the
compression with the compression control.  When you talk, you'll see the
compression bouncing around as you talk. It will start sounding bad when
it goes above 10dB on the hottest voice peaks.

73,

Jim Brown K9YC

<snip>
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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

ab2tc
Case in point. Just broke a huge pileup for 8R1AK/P. I am barefoot with a G5RV.

AB2TC - Knut

ab2tc wrote
I am using a Heil Proset, IC element, Mic gain to LO, setting 35 and compression set at 20. With this I can not talk the CMP reading above 10 or the ALC reading above 7. I get good audio reports and just as importantly I get heard remarkably well by DX stations.

AB2TC - Knut
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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

Bob McGraw - K4TAX
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
I said it before and written it before, good audio has to do with a good
mike and GOOD MIKE TECHNIQUE.  The best mike money will buy and poor mike
technique will result in poor audio.

We use noise gates in the professional audio studio to create special
effects.

The noise gate used on ham radio to eliminate blower noise is a false
since of secuirty for when the gate opens, along comes the noise with the
voice.  It only chops the noise in between words.  It is still there with
the voice.

73
Bob, K4TAX





> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 16:18:01 +0000, Lance Collister wrote:
>
>> It very effectively cuts out the background blower noise
>
> Some of the major causes of audible background noise are 1) working too
> far from the mic; 2) running the mic gain too high; 3) using too much
> compression/processing; and 4) not rolling off the low frequencies.
>
> In a noisy environment, it always helps to work close to the mic. It is
> ALWAYS good practice to use the minimum mic gain needed to get good
> modulation, use no more than about 10dB of compression/processing, and
> roll off the low frequency content. It's good engineering practice for
> the
> highest quality broadcast stations, and it's good practice for ham radio.
>
> Indeed, the only difference between what's right for broadcasting and for
> ham radio is WHERE to cut the low end and HOW MUCH money to spend on
> compression/processing. Many years ago, I sold processing systems for
> broadcast stations that cost upwards of $10K in today's dollars, and I
> helped the chief engineers of those stations adjust them. I suspect that
> W8JI and K4TAX have similar experience. Before I spent ANY money on an
> outboard box for a ham rig, I would first follow all of those elements of
> good engineering practice.
>
> 73,
>
> Jim Brown K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>


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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

Bob McGraw - K4TAX
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Very well said Jim.

73
Bob, K4TAX


> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 16:18:01 +0000, Lance Collister wrote:
>
>> It very effectively cuts out the background blower noise
>
> Some of the major causes of audible background noise are 1) working too
> far from the mic; 2) running the mic gain too high; 3) using too much
> compression/processing; and 4) not rolling off the low frequencies.
>
> In a noisy environment, it always helps to work close to the mic. It is
> ALWAYS good practice to use the minimum mic gain needed to get good
> modulation, use no more than about 10dB of compression/processing, and
> roll off the low frequency content. It's good engineering practice for
> the
> highest quality broadcast stations, and it's good practice for ham radio.
>
> Indeed, the only difference between what's right for broadcasting and for
> ham radio is WHERE to cut the low end and HOW MUCH money to spend on
> compression/processing. Many years ago, I sold processing systems for
> broadcast stations that cost upwards of $10K in today's dollars, and I
> helped the chief engineers of those stations adjust them. I suspect that
> W8JI and K4TAX have similar experience. Before I spent ANY money on an
> outboard box for a ham rig, I would first follow all of those elements of
> good engineering practice.
>
> 73,
>
> Jim Brown K9YC
>
>
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Re: W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

Bob McGraw - K4TAX
In reply to this post by ab2tc
And do remember, more compression brings up background noise between
words by the amount of the compression value.   Hence with 10 dB of
compression, a background noise level that would normally produce and
output of 1 watt will then sound like 10 watts of noise.

73
Bob, K4TAX

>
> On the K3 what would be the approximate setting for 10dB compression?
>
> AB2TC - Knut
>
>
> Jim Brown-10 wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>> In a noisy environment, it always helps to work close to the mic. It is
>> ALWAYS good practice to use the minimum mic gain needed to get good
>> modulation, use no more than about 10dB of compression/processing, and
>> roll off the low frequency content. It's good engineering practice for
>> the
>> highest quality broadcast stations, and it's good practice for ham
>> radio.
>> <snip again>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/W2IHY-8-band-equalizer-and-EQ-Plus-tp4959845p4964331.html
> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Compression and noise - was W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

John King-10
 
>
> And do remember, more compression brings up background noise between
> words by the amount of the compression value.   Hence with 10 dB of
> compression, a background noise level that would normally produce and
> output of 1 watt will then sound like 10 watts of noise.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>

Bob's comment above is right on the money and is well worth re-reading.

Professional announcers use proper mic technique *and* they work in
sound booths or acoustically inert studios. Sports announcers who must
work in noisy environments use headsets with high quality noise-canceling
mics inches from their lips, followed by processors far more sophisticated
than any used by hams.

A tip to the phone contest fellows: prepare your CQ loops in a quiet
room well in advance of the event. I am always astounded at the poor
quality of the CQ loops in contests - many from the well known big
gun stations who should know better. I wonder about the impact on the
Q-rate when the listeners (especially those whose native language is
other than English) have difficulty understanding the CQ loop.  

73,
  john WA1ABI
 
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Re: Compression and noise - was W2IHY 8 band equalizer and EQ Plus

Jim Brown-10
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 21:24:09 -0400, John King wrote:

>I wonder about the impact on the
>Q-rate when the listeners (especially those whose native language is
>other than English) have difficulty understanding the CQ loop.

And things seem to be getting worse with every contest. At least 10% of the
SSB signals I hear are so badly processed that the audio is so badly
distorted that I can't copy the call sign, even if I listen to it a dozen
times. And yes, some of these lids consider themselves big guns.

Several times in the last month or so, R1FJM has been spotted on 20M SSB. I'd
like to work him, and I can hear him, but his audio is so awful I can't
understand a word. If someone knows him, please tell him.

73,

Jim K9YC


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