Will there be a K4

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Re: Will there be a K4

NK7Z
Put a web server in the K4, and control it that way via IP...  Also put
in JSON for radio status, and add some IP based controls for everything.

73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon

On 3/25/19 4:59 AM, Mike Markowski wrote:

> Eric,
>
> On the computer side of things, how about:
>
> 1. Ethernet, socket-based communication with rig.  Imagine AUTO INFO
> replies direct to IP/port!  No more clashing programs.
> 2. Everything controllable by commands (like RF gain).
> 3. Info directly gettable.  E.g., no need to 'decode' display.
> 4. State directly settable. No need to emulate series of button pushes.
> 5. Pixel based display can convey much info when used with care. (Graphs,
> block diagram showing what is affected by a control.  Things like, but
> better & more compact than, my old K2DSP code:
> http://udel.edu/~mm/ham/elecraft/k2filter/ )
>
> 73,
> Mike ab3ap
>
> On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
>>> Inquiring minds want to know:
>>> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?
>>>
>>> Eric
>>> elecraft.com
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Will there be a K4

W2xj
In reply to this post by Mike Markowski-2
This would be well suited for the use of SNMP.

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 7:59 AM, Mike Markowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Eric,
>
> On the computer side of things, how about:
>
> 1. Ethernet, socket-based communication with rig.  Imagine AUTO INFO
> replies direct to IP/port!  No more clashing programs.
> 2. Everything controllable by commands (like RF gain).
> 3. Info directly gettable.  E.g., no need to 'decode' display.
> 4. State directly settable. No need to emulate series of button pushes.
> 5. Pixel based display can convey much info when used with care. (Graphs,
> block diagram showing what is affected by a control.  Things like, but
> better & more compact than, my old K2DSP code:
> http://udel.edu/~mm/ham/elecraft/k2filter/ )
>
> 73,
> Mike ab3ap
>
> On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
>>> Inquiring minds want to know:
>>> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?
>>>
>>> Eric
>>> elecraft.com
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Re: Will there be a K4

Doug Person-5
In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft

1.) The K3s and P3 combined in one box.

1.) A 7" touch screen with spectrum display, fully configurable for
operations and with access to setup menu.

2.) The hybrid analog/digital technology of the K3s. It's so good as it
is I would hate to see it change.

3.) Options for 4 meters, 2 meters and 70cm that would make it possible
to operate satellites with appropriate external PAs and preamps

4.) Optional built-in server for direct remote access via internet (No
connection to am external PC required for remote access).

5.) Optional 200 watt PA with 200 watt ATU


Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/24/2019 7:14 PM, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

> Inquiring minds want to know:
> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?
>
> Eric
> elecraft.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

--
73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Re: Will there be a K4

Doug Person-5
In reply to this post by rich hurd WC3T
I think you misunderstand open source. Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 7:37 AM, rich hurd WC3T wrote:

> "integrated FT8" will never happen.  If I'm not mistaken, FT8 is open
> source and incorporating that software with its licensing requirements
> could expose Elecraft to all sorts of exposure; as their software is NOT
> open-source.
>
> At least I believe I read that somewhere.   That's my belief.    Sort of
> the same reason HRD or other licensed, closed-source apps do not
> incorporate FT8 or any of those derivatives into their software.   They
> simply can't.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 1:08 AM Martin Sole <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few
>> things, though in no particular order of merit:
>>
>> Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.
>>
>> ‘Proper’ band stacking registers.
>>
>> Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.
>>
>> Individual mode buttons.
>>
>> AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.
>>
>> More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable software as
>> digi modes develop.
>>
>> Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.
>>
>> 50V minimum PA.
>>
>> Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.
>>
>> Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.
>>
>> Bigger rotary controls with more space.
>>
>> RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.
>>
>> Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.
>>
>> PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU (KPA500/KAT500).
>>
>> I/Q output.
>>
>> Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is
>> already the leader there).
>>
>> More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio
>> can do from a computer.
>>
>> Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head
>> used from where you need to be.
>>
>> More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).
>>
>>
>> Martin, HS0ZED
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
>>> Inquiring minds want to know:
>>> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?
>>>
>>> Eric
>>> elecraft.com
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
--
73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Re: Will there be a K4

K9MA
In reply to this post by Doug Person-5
The top of my list would include a really effective noise blanker. 
Those of us who don't live way out in the countryside are often plagued
with power line noise, which a good noise blanker can largely eliminate.
Many older transceivers have noise blankers which are very effective on
impulse noise, but only as long as there are no strong signals within
5-10 kHz of the desired signal.

The "K4" noise blanker would have the ability to use a second receiver,
with a wide IF bandwidth, tuned to a nearby quiet segment, to control
the noise blanker in the primary receiver(s). It would be able to
automatically find that clear segment. To be effective, the noise
blanker receiver has to have a bandwidth of at least 15 kHz, and there
can be no strong signals within that bandwidth.

Perhaps direct sampling would allow this to be done in software, if the
dynamic range were large enough, but it would have to work as well as a
hardware version.

73,

Scott K9MA

--
Scott  K9MA

[hidden email]

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Re: Will there be a K4

Doug Person-5
In reply to this post by K8TE
The P3 is far superior to the spectrum display on the 7610? In what way?
Are you sure you understand how to configure the 7610 display?

Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 8:51 AM, K8TE wrote:

> I will visit a friend to operate his station again for the CQ WW WPX SSB
> Contest this coming weekend.  We use these opportunities to motivate and
> train new contesters.  His main rig is an IC-7610.  I will bring my KPA1500
> to substitute for his 600 Watt amplifier and tuner since neither provides
> the kind of integration the K-Line can.
>
> I greatly prefer operating my K3/P3 over the IC-7610!  The P3 is a far
> better panadaptor than the IC-7610's!  The K3's user interface is much
> simpler and more effective to operate than the IC-7610's.  BTW, this his the
> second IC-7610 in my friend's shack as the first failed 46+ times during
> last November's ARRL SS-SSB Contest (we may have missed counting some).
> Icom had the radio for several weeks and found no trouble.  I give them
> credit for replacing it after the November debacle, no questions asked.  The
> replacement didn't fail during the ARRL DX-SSB Contest in February.
>
> The K4, when it comes, I assert, will not be about aesthetics, but
> performance and features serious hams want.  If you haven't been paying
> attention, a significant number of those hams have replaced their K3S radios
> with the Flex 6700.  Their feature set and performance have set a standard
> the K4 will need to excede.  I am confident it will.
>
> The K3S is definitely NOT "dated" with regard to performance.  Check out Rob
> Sherwood's, NC0B, receiver performance listing:
> http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.  The K3S is #2 for transceivers with the
> upgraded K3 immediately behind it.  Elecraft's challenge is to provide a
> significant improvement in performance which depends upon both hardware and
> engineering.  That is more difficult than ever before.  The K3 was a
> game-changer.  I suspect we won't see a K4 until it too can change the game.
>
> I am amused by some of the Luddite comments regarding touch screens and
> computer interfacing.  Yes, the K3S is an awesome stand-alone rig and the
> K-Line abely performs without a computer in sight.  However, most of us have
> progressed from contesting and DX'ing using paper and pen.  Don't use a
> computer if you don't want, but don't knock the many advantages a computer
> in the shack provides.  After all, it is 2019.  Read your equipment manuals,
> get KE7X's books, and see what else you can do with your Elecraft gear.
> Most of all, have fun.
>
> I recall watching the KPA1500 poster go up on the wall at the IDXC in
> Visalia.  I look forward to seeing the K4 poster there or in Xenia!  After
> all, it's just my kids' inheritance I'm spending and enjoying.
>
> 73, Bill, K8TE
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
--
73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Re: Will there be a K4

Neil Zampella
In reply to this post by Doug Person-5
FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.

Neil, KN3iLZ

On 3/25/2019 11:57 AM, Doug Person wrote:

> I think you misunderstand open source. Doug -- KJ0F
>
> On 3/25/2019 7:37 AM, rich hurd WC3T wrote:
>> "integrated FT8" will never happen.  If I'm not mistaken, FT8 is open
>> source and incorporating that software with its licensing requirements
>> could expose Elecraft to all sorts of exposure; as their software is NOT
>> open-source.
>>
>> At least I believe I read that somewhere.   That's my belief. Sort of
>> the same reason HRD or other licensed, closed-source apps do not
>> incorporate FT8 or any of those derivatives into their software.   They
>> simply can't.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 1:08 AM Martin Sole <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few
>>> things, though in no particular order of merit:
>>>
>>> Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.
>>>
>>> ‘Proper’ band stacking registers.
>>>
>>> Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.
>>>
>>> Individual mode buttons.
>>>
>>> AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.
>>>
>>> More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable
>>> software as
>>> digi modes develop.
>>>
>>> Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.
>>>
>>> 50V minimum PA.
>>>
>>> Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.
>>>
>>> Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.
>>>
>>> Bigger rotary controls with more space.
>>>
>>> RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.
>>>
>>> Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.
>>>
>>> PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU
>>> (KPA500/KAT500).
>>>
>>> I/Q output.
>>>
>>> Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is
>>> already the leader there).
>>>
>>> More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio
>>> can do from a computer.
>>>
>>> Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head
>>> used from where you need to be.
>>>
>>> More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).
>>>
>>>
>>> Martin, HS0ZED
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
>>>> Inquiring minds want to know:
>>>> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?
>>>>
>>>> Eric
>>>> elecraft.com
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>

---
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Re: Will there be a K4

Edward R Cole
In reply to this post by w5sum
Re: K4 with touch-pad.

Not all will want that.  I suggest it made as and add-on accessory in
matching cabinet and include spectrum display (of course).  On the
main radio a simple screen on/off switch to go from manual controls
to touch-screen.  Maybe it could do double-duty as remote panel with
IP interface.

Keep diversity dual-Rx  and provide I/Q interface for both Rx or
include a top-end ADC's for computer I/F (suggest you look at the
UADC4 to see a top-end unit).  An ext I/Q connection as alternate to
internal ADC is another option.  Soundcards are old fashion way do
ADC and most fall short of the performance spec of the radio.

Please keep the K4/10 option vs K4/100.  KXPA100 works well with both
my K3/10 and KX3.  If you do a K4/500 please make that an option.
Kit versions such as done with K3 would be nice.

Trying to embed digital mode sw is not a good idea as there is
constant upgrading to many.  Unless you intend to install a dedicated
micro internal to the radio (please shield well for digital
noise).  Then either mouse/keyboard or touch screen keyboard is needed.

If direct-conversion SDR is to be used can freq range include 2m.  If
you want to play in the satellite market then also need 432-438 MHz
and crossband duplex with 144-MHz.  Also ensure freq range extends to
630m band.

A better approach to covering 144/222/432/900/1296 would be a
transverter accessory box.  Consider PLL LO's referenced to 10-MHz
std. At least 25w on VHF+.  Please use N-connectors on 144+.

Better NB/NR

Others have covered the rest, so not going to repeat all.

73, Ed - KL7UW
   http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
   [hidden email]

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Re: Will there be a K4

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by NJ8M
On 3/25/2019 6:15 AM, Morgan Bailey wrote:
> SO2R with out ground loop problems ..or Rock solid SO2R solution...for k3s
> or other radios. I have the MK2R+ and I want a better solution.

Simple solution -- implement proper bonding in your station. Described here

http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf

and in N0AX's recent ARRL book on the topic.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: Will there be a K4

Richard Lamont
In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
On 25/03/2019 00:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

> Inquiring minds want to know:
> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Something like the Flex / Anan SDRs, but with RX performance to match
the K3S. So maybe a 24-bit direct-sampling SDR, if such a thing is even
possible, with a open-source cross-platform application to drive it.
(For me, Windows = showstopper.)

73,
Richard G4DYA

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Re: Will there be a K4

Doug Person-5
In reply to this post by Neil Zampella
Even if it's just an application installed into an integrated computer?
This would not be folding the source into other code. It's just
installing it into a computer that happens to be inside another device.
It wouldn't be firmware. It would be the same as when I run it on my
Raspberry Pi.

Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 12:01 PM, Neil Zampella wrote:

> FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
> License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:
>
> "You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
> The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
> redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
> GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
> making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."
>
> So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
> v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.
>
> Neil, KN3iLZ
>
> On 3/25/2019 11:57 AM, Doug Person wrote:
>> I think you misunderstand open source. Doug -- KJ0F
>>
>> On 3/25/2019 7:37 AM, rich hurd WC3T wrote:
>>> "integrated FT8" will never happen.  If I'm not mistaken, FT8 is open
>>> source and incorporating that software with its licensing requirements
>>> could expose Elecraft to all sorts of exposure; as their software is
>>> NOT
>>> open-source.
>>>
>>> At least I believe I read that somewhere.   That's my belief. Sort of
>>> the same reason HRD or other licensed, closed-source apps do not
>>> incorporate FT8 or any of those derivatives into their software.   They
>>> simply can't.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 1:08 AM Martin Sole <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few
>>>> things, though in no particular order of merit:
>>>>
>>>> Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.
>>>>
>>>> ‘Proper’ band stacking registers.
>>>>
>>>> Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.
>>>>
>>>> Individual mode buttons.
>>>>
>>>> AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.
>>>>
>>>> More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable
>>>> software as
>>>> digi modes develop.
>>>>
>>>> Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.
>>>>
>>>> 50V minimum PA.
>>>>
>>>> Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.
>>>>
>>>> Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.
>>>>
>>>> Bigger rotary controls with more space.
>>>>
>>>> RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.
>>>>
>>>> Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.
>>>>
>>>> PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU
>>>> (KPA500/KAT500).
>>>>
>>>> I/Q output.
>>>>
>>>> Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is
>>>> already the leader there).
>>>>
>>>> More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio
>>>> can do from a computer.
>>>>
>>>> Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head
>>>> used from where you need to be.
>>>>
>>>> More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Martin, HS0ZED
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
>>>>> Inquiring minds want to know:
>>>>> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric
>>>>> elecraft.com
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Re: Will there be a K4

Elecraft mailing list
In reply to this post by Neil Zampella
Hi Neil:
I haven't read the fine print of the various software licenses, but it seems to me that FT8 is a "digital mode" and it might possibly be able to generate FT8 compatible reception and transmission in multiple ways.Or, it might be possible to include a tiny linux computer inside a K4, into which you can load the FT8 software, so it would always be in it's own universe... and not part of the radio's OS.
I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular idea.  Having said that, I'm pretty much a CW guy now... although I find it fun to be able to send and receive RTTY and PSK31 with my KX3.
73 de RayK2ULRKX3 #211FN20kg


-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Zampella <[hidden email]>
To: elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Mar 25, 2019 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.

Neil, KN3iLZ


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Re: Will there be a K4

k6dgw
In reply to this post by Doug Person-5
Ummm ... I think there are two issues here: The algorithms, coding, and
modulation schemes for transmitting and receiving what has come to be
known as FT8, and separately, the source code to implement all of that. 
The second is subject to the terms of the GPL V3 license, the first
would not seem to be.  So, all Elecraft would have to do is re-invent
the WSPR-X FT8 their own proprietary way for whatever processor they
use.  Just a few lines of code, should take about a week. :-)

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 3/25/2019 12:38 PM, Doug Person wrote:

> Even if it's just an application installed into an integrated
> computer? This would not be folding the source into other code. It's
> just installing it into a computer that happens to be inside another
> device. It wouldn't be firmware. It would be the same as when I run it
> on my Raspberry Pi.
>
> Doug --KJ0F
>
> On 3/25/2019 12:01 PM, Neil Zampella wrote:
>> FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
>> License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:
>>
>> "You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
>> The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
>> redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
>> GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
>> making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."
>>
>> So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
>> v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.
>>
>> Neil, KN3iLZ
>>

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Re: Will there be a K4

Edward R Cole
In reply to this post by w5sum
Page Two: of my K4 ideas.

After writing my last post on this topic, it dawned on me the K3
architecture already uses a separate screen box which is the P3.  So
just expand that to being a touch screen controller with P3
embedded.  Then its a option for those that want one.  Main radio
remains with buttons and knobs and LCD screen which works
independently, if desired, or with Touchscreen if desired.  The new
touchscreen/p3 would make a nice remote rig controller.  So
interconnect with some kind of IP connection (ethernet, I
suppose).  I'm not a computer guy so leave details to others.  Could
such a "critter" work with my K3?

Maybe the two units could couple together mechanically to make a
single radio unit for those that want that.

One of the deciding factors for me choosing the K3 over the existing
Flex radio (in 2010) was having a real VFO knob and physical controls.

I currently have a 7-inch color-LCD touchscreen in use with a
Rasp-Pi3 for controlling antenna tracking.  Fortunately does not
require frequent touching as my fat fingers do not do well with
it.  I guess I need a stylus which is another thing to get lost on my
messy radio table.

Frankly, my upgraded-K3 is fully satisfactory for me.  My home
station is a jungle of wiring but lets me configure as I want.
details: http://www.kl7uw.com/

73, Ed - KL7UW
   http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
   [hidden email]

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Re: Will there be a K4

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list
On 3/25/2019 1:55 PM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:
> I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular idea.

I think it's a terrible idea, if for no other reason that Joe Taylor's
modes have always evolved over the years to make them better. Also, it's
trivially easy to connect computer audio to the radio audio and control
the radio from the USB or serial port, and VOX is all you need for T/R
switching.

I do agree with K4ZRJ's request for easier control of the sub-RX.

And I have no interest in a touch screen.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: Will there be a K4

W2xj
It is easy to run FT8 or other digital modes on a Raspberry PI. Very inexpensive and very small.

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 6:11 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 3/25/2019 1:55 PM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:
>> I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular idea.
>
> I think it's a terrible idea, if for no other reason that Joe Taylor's modes have always evolved over the years to make them better. Also, it's trivially easy to connect computer audio to the radio audio and control the radio from the USB or serial port, and VOX is all you need for T/R switching.
>
> I do agree with K4ZRJ's request for easier control of the sub-RX.
>
> And I have no interest in a touch screen.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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Re: Will there be a K4

Richard Eversole
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Touch screens on something in the K3 form factor are of little use...
Also own 7100 and that screen is troublesome to use and makes me wish I had
gone with K3X and another separate 2m/440

FT8 mode would mean many firmware updates plus not clear how you get all
the useful display information... it would just be trouble and not really
worth it in the radio. Unlike PSK or RTTY where it is more obvious which
signal is being worked... the flexible channel like behavior is just too
much for the radio form factor... I like big screens and I just cant deny
....

Rick "The Rhino" N6RNO
@San Benito October 6-7 2018
Where will you be?

http://www.cqp.org


On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 3:12 PM Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 3/25/2019 1:55 PM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:
> > I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular
> idea.
>
> I think it's a terrible idea, if for no other reason that Joe Taylor's
> modes have always evolved over the years to make them better. Also, it's
> trivially easy to connect computer audio to the radio audio and control
> the radio from the USB or serial port, and VOX is all you need for T/R
> switching.
>
> I do agree with K4ZRJ's request for easier control of the sub-RX.
>
> And I have no interest in a touch screen.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Will there be a K4

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft
Administrator
Folks - Let's end the "Will there be a K4?" , "Touchscreen" and related threads
now. Very interesting suggestions and comments, but we are waaaay past the
reasonable number of allowed posts on a topic :-) .

I was tied up most of the day here and just now got back on reading my email.  
Wow!

We apologize for those overloaded by the flood of emails.

-threads closed-

73,
Eric
Moderator and all sorts of other duties at..
/elecraft.com/

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Re: Will there be a K4

Doug Person-5
In reply to this post by k6dgw
If the FT8 program is running on a separate "loosely coupled" computer
that is internal, I don't see a problem.

Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 3:59 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> Ummm ... I think there are two issues here: The algorithms, coding,
> and modulation schemes for transmitting and receiving what has come to
> be known as FT8, and separately, the source code to implement all of
> that.  The second is subject to the terms of the GPL V3 license, the
> first would not seem to be.  So, all Elecraft would have to do is
> re-invent the WSPR-X FT8 their own proprietary way for whatever
> processor they use.  Just a few lines of code, should take about a
> week. :-)
>
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 3/25/2019 12:38 PM, Doug Person wrote:
>> Even if it's just an application installed into an integrated
>> computer? This would not be folding the source into other code. It's
>> just installing it into a computer that happens to be inside another
>> device. It wouldn't be firmware. It would be the same as when I run
>> it on my Raspberry Pi.
>>
>> Doug --KJ0F
>>
>> On 3/25/2019 12:01 PM, Neil Zampella wrote:
>>> FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General
>>> Public
>>> License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:
>>>
>>> "You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
>>> The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
>>> redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could
>>> incorporate
>>> GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
>>> making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."
>>>
>>> So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
>>> v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the
>>> firmware.
>>>
>>> Neil, KN3iLZ
>>>
>
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--
73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Re: Will there be a K4

wayne burdick
Administrator
Me either.

Wayne

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 7:02 PM, Doug Person <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If the FT8 program is running on a separate "loosely coupled" computer that is internal, I don't see a problem.
>
> Doug --KJ0F



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