Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

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Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Rich-4
I am sure many will be required to update Win10 to the supported
version.  I think 10/19 is the drop dead date on the current version for
support, not exactly sure.

Any who,  I did mine yesterday and of course it hosed up my nicely
labeled Codec audio entries in the Windows Sound Control Panel.   It was
not hard to get back in business and rename them, but as a note to
others it recognized mine as Mono audio devices, hence I needed to
change them manually to a stereo device (2 channel is the windows term)
in the Sound Control Panel.

My K3s was not connected to the computer USB when I did the update.   I
am now curious if this issue would be resolved if the K3 USB was indeed
plugged into the computer during the update.  I am going to try it
during the next update.

I hope this may save some others,  some pain during the update process

Rich

K3RWN

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Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

ANDY DURBIN
"I hope this may save some others,  some pain during the update process"

I avoided all the Win 10 pain by not installing it.  I can only assume that those who think Win 10 is wonderful do not use USB audio devices.   it seems that, at least once a week, someone reports having their USB audio configuration trashed by Win 10.

Andy, k3wyc
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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

alaparos@w2cs.net
I have had a different experience here.  

Windows 10 Pro is one of the systems I use.  Recently, I discovered that, while I was getting the usual windows updates, those updates would cease in September.  Upon further reflection it seemed that the base Windows system was at a level of March 2018, or in Microsoft-speak, 1803.  I had to force an update to 1907, the current base, by going to microsoft.com and following the instructions.

All is well and all apps seem to work as well as they did before.  

I did all this because I was uncomfortable having a network-attached Windows system without security updates.  YMMV.  

73, Gary W2CS



> On Jul 30, 2019, at 3:02 PM, Andy Durbin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> "I hope this may save some others,  some pain during the update process"
>
> I avoided all the Win 10 pain by not installing it.  I can only assume that those who think Win 10 is wonderful do not use USB audio devices.   it seems that, at least once a week, someone reports having their USB audio configuration trashed by Win 10.
>
> Andy, k3wyc
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN
On 7/30/2019 12:02 PM, Andy Durbin wrote:
> I avoided all the Win 10 pain by not installing it.

YES! For exactly this reason, I've paid extra to buy computers with Win7
rather than Win10 for radio.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Steve Glickstein
In reply to this post by Rich-4
Rich, my experience is that even with USB devices plugged in, major
updates to my Win10 Pro system scramble various port assignments for
comm and audio. I keep a document on my hard drive with the a port
assignment list so I can restore them and run my ham software without
any hiccups.

73, Steve W4FMD


On 7/30/2019 2:13 PM, Rich wrote:

> I am sure many will be required to update Win10 to the supported
> version.  I think 10/19 is the drop dead date on the current version
> for support, not exactly sure.
>
> Any who,  I did mine yesterday and of course it hosed up my nicely
> labeled Codec audio entries in the Windows Sound Control Panel. It was
> not hard to get back in business and rename them, but as a note to
> others it recognized mine as Mono audio devices, hence I needed to
> change them manually to a stereo device (2 channel is the windows
> term) in the Sound Control Panel.
>
> My K3s was not connected to the computer USB when I did the update.  
> I am now curious if this issue would be resolved if the K3 USB was
> indeed plugged into the computer during the update.  I am going to try
> it during the next update.
>
> I hope this may save some others,  some pain during the update process
>
> Rich
>
> K3RWN
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Barry-2
In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN
Andy,
     Two points. First I have used Win10 since it was available and had
only one problem; I do use Windows compliant drivers. Second, YOU DO NOT
have to upgrade all the time. There are some settings in the windows
that allows you to opt out of auto upgrades. However, the upgrades also
upgrade security on your system, and in today's world, you need the best
security you can find.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Andy Durbin" <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 7/30/2019 3:02:28 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

>"I hope this may save some others,  some pain during the update process"
>
>I avoided all the Win 10 pain by not installing it.  I can only assume that those who think Win 10 is wonderful do not use USB audio devices.   it seems that, at least once a week, someone reports having their USB audio configuration trashed by Win 10.
>
>Andy, k3wyc
>______________________________________________________________
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>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
If your radio computers must be connected to the internet, as mine are for DX clusters, Club Log, firmware updates, etc., etc., then this may not be a good idea, since older systems are targets for malware. When MS stops supplying security patches, the situation will become even worse.

Victor 4X6GP

> On 30 Jul 2019, at 23:49, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 7/30/2019 12:02 PM, Andy Durbin wrote:
>> I avoided all the Win 10 pain by not installing it.
>
> YES! For exactly this reason, I've paid extra to buy computers with Win7 rather than Win10 for radio.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Jim Brown-10
On 7/30/2019 9:19 PM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:
> If your radio computers must be connected to the internet, as mine are for DX clusters, Club Log, firmware updates, etc., etc., then this may not be a good idea, since older systems are targets for malware.
It's a great idea NOW, as long as the OS is supported. I WANT updates,
but on MY schedule, not automatically.  I have three Win7 machines, and
they all get updated when I get the on-screen alert to do so -- IF I'm
not in the middle of a contest or other operating activity. :)
> When MS stops supplying security patches, the situation will become even worse.

I'll pay the extra support fee for my shack computer.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

john@kk9a.com
In reply to this post by Rich-4
I stuck with Windows XP until the end. I have also purchased computers  
with Windows 7 when 10 was available and they all work very well. I  
have updates set to notify so I can install them at my leisure as the  
loading and reboots always seem to come at in inconvenient time.  Can  
you imagine getting an update when you're running 200+ QSOs per hour  
in a contest. Also the Windows 7 updates to not appear to require  
software reloads like Windows 10 does with Writelog and maybe others  
or cause any sound card setting changes. Unfortunately Microsoft is  
ending support of Windows 7 on January 14, 2020.

John KK9A




Jim Brown K9YC wrote:


> I avoided all the Win 10 pain by not installing it.

YES! For exactly this reason, I've paid extra to buy computers with Win7
rather than Win10 for radio.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Bob McGraw - K4TAX
With Windows 10 the user can select when updates are applied and can be
notified when updates are available.   Thus there is no interruption and
no restarts and installation is your choice. Use what's provided by the
system.   Again, it is YOUR choice to use updates efficiently.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 7/31/2019 6:49 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I stuck with Windows XP until the end. I have also purchased computers
> with Windows 7 when 10 was available and they all work very well. I
> have updates set to notify so I can install them at my leisure as the
> loading and reboots always seem to come at in inconvenient time.  Can
> you imagine getting an update when you're running 200+ QSOs per hour
> in a contest. Also the Windows 7 updates to not appear to require
> software reloads like Windows 10 does with Writelog and maybe others
> or cause any sound card setting changes. Unfortunately Microsoft is
> ending support of Windows 7 on January 14, 2020.
>
> John KK9A
>
>
>
>
> Jim Brown K9YC wrote:
>
>
>> I avoided all the Win 10 pain by not installing it.
>
> YES! For exactly this reason, I've paid extra to buy computers with Win7
> rather than Win10 for radio.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

---
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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Rich-4
In reply to this post by Steve Glickstein
Thanks that is good to know.

Rich

On 7/30/2019 18:11 PM, Steve Glickstein wrote:

> Rich, my experience is that even with USB devices plugged in, major
> updates to my Win10 Pro system scramble various port assignments for
> comm and audio. I keep a document on my hard drive with the a port
> assignment list so I can restore them and run my ham software without
> any hiccups.
>
> 73, Steve W4FMD
>
>
> On 7/30/2019 2:13 PM, Rich wrote:
>> I am sure many will be required to update Win10 to the supported
>> version.  I think 10/19 is the drop dead date on the current version
>> for support, not exactly sure.
>>
>> Any who,  I did mine yesterday and of course it hosed up my nicely
>> labeled Codec audio entries in the Windows Sound Control Panel. It
>> was not hard to get back in business and rename them, but as a note
>> to others it recognized mine as Mono audio devices, hence I needed to
>> change them manually to a stereo device (2 channel is the windows
>> term) in the Sound Control Panel.
>>
>> My K3s was not connected to the computer USB when I did the update.  
>> I am now curious if this issue would be resolved if the K3 USB was
>> indeed plugged into the computer during the update.  I am going to
>> try it during the next update.
>>
>> I hope this may save some others,  some pain during the update process
>>
>> Rich
>>
>> K3RWN
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Bill Frantz
In reply to this post by Rich-4
I'll have to admit, the "best" of these was when I saw a Windows
update start to load during a PowerPoint presentation.

As a Mac user, I've never had a problem with the 2 USB <-> RS232
cables I have, one for the K3 and the other for the KX3. The Mac
always gets them right, even when I change USB hubs etc. If you
want to beat on Microsoft to fix their bug, here's some ammo.
And you do have my profound sympathy for having to deal with the situation.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 7/31/19 at 4:49 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

>Can you imagine getting an update when you're running 200+ QSOs
>per hour in a contest.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz        | Since the IBM Selectric, keyboards have gotten
408-356-8506       | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards.
www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse?

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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Steve Boles
In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX
Has anyone tried UBUNTU (Linux)    ...  73 - Steve (ARS: WB4SED)

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 8:47 AM Bob <[hidden email]> wrote:

> With Windows 10 the user can select when updates are applied and can be
> notified when updates are available.   Thus there is no interruption and
> no restarts and installation is your choice. Use what's provided by the
> system.   Again, it is YOUR choice to use updates efficiently.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 7/31/2019 6:49 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > I stuck with Windows XP until the end. I have also purchased computers
> > with Windows 7 when 10 was available and they all work very well. I
> > have updates set to notify so I can install them at my leisure as the
> > loading and reboots always seem to come at in inconvenient time.  Can
> > you imagine getting an update when you're running 200+ QSOs per hour
> > in a contest. Also the Windows 7 updates to not appear to require
> > software reloads like Windows 10 does with Writelog and maybe others
> > or cause any sound card setting changes. Unfortunately Microsoft is
> > ending support of Windows 7 on January 14, 2020.
> >
> > John KK9A
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Brown K9YC wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I avoided all the Win 10 pain by not installing it.
> >
> > YES! For exactly this reason, I've paid extra to buy computers with Win7
> > rather than Win10 for radio.
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Elecraft mailing list
In reply to this post by Rich-4
Re:-

If your radio computers must be connected to the internet, as mine are for DX clusters, Club Log, firmware updates, etc., etc., then this may not be a good idea, since older systems are targets for malware. When MS stops supplying security patches, the situation will become even worse.

Victor 4X6GP

------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALL systems are targets for malware, and crypto currency mining, be
aware of that.

As for security, well, Windows 7 is OK "Now", but after Feb' next year,
as has happened within days of Win2k and XP being cast adrift, some
"new" (previously known to hackers, but unreported to MS) vulnerability
will be leveraged against Win7.   Win 10 (& perhaps 8.x) will be
patched, but 7, ?

Depends on what % of the web is still populated by W7 I guess, MS have
pushed out one or two updates to XP long after they otherwise cast it,
purely due to the severity of the issue, and the damage even a small %
of such population could cause.   The recent RDP issue I think being one
of them.

So long as your border gateway device is secure, and correctly
configured (UPnP disabled) updated and so on, you could survive running
Windows 9x, so long as you never "went anywhere bad" on the 'net, and
that's the problem.

You have in practice, little control where your browser goes.  OK, you
my point it at an otherwise trustworthy site (QRZ, QSL, clublog and so
on.)  But they have adverts on there that are served up by external sites.

Worse, many are animated to catch your eye, and also respond to the
mouse cursor moving across them.  ANYTHING that moves on screen is
running code, and THAT IS where the issue is.  That code can do anything
it wants, as well as what you see it doing.  Someone will probably know
you moved (even unconsciously) your mouse pointer over their add.

Some third party tools ("Ublock Origin" etc) can block many, but not all
of such things.  But many genuine sites that rely on the ad's to provide
revenue to cover running costs, may then block your access to the site
you want.

~ ~ ~

Re your border gateway devices...   Be prepared for some firmware
updates in the near future.  One of the popular embedded OS's used
"VxWorks" has been found to have (at least) 11 critical vulnerabilities,
and this stuff runs in billions of devices world wide, designed to be
interconnected via the web too.

See:- https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-725-notes.pdf  Then scroll down to page
9 or 10 (depending on your reader)

Note too:  New problems for exposed NAS devices, that many people are
unknowingly showing to the world!

73.

Dave G0WBX.

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:

______________________________________________________________
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Bill K9YEQ
Totally agreed.  Issues with Win 10 are, in my IT experience, usually user created problems.  Yes port assignments can change, even by replugging a usb port.  To me this is of little bother, unless I was removing, then would need remote access to correct which isn't that difficult.

Bill
920-421-1172

________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Dave B via Elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 4:15:01 AM
To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Re:-

If your radio computers must be connected to the internet, as mine are for DX clusters, Club Log, firmware updates, etc., etc., then this may not be a good idea, since older systems are targets for malware. When MS stops supplying security patches, the situation will become even worse.

Victor 4X6GP

------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALL systems are targets for malware, and crypto currency mining, be
aware of that.

As for security, well, Windows 7 is OK "Now", but after Feb' next year,
as has happened within days of Win2k and XP being cast adrift, some
"new" (previously known to hackers, but unreported to MS) vulnerability
will be leveraged against Win7.   Win 10 (& perhaps 8.x) will be
patched, but 7, ?

Depends on what % of the web is still populated by W7 I guess, MS have
pushed out one or two updates to XP long after they otherwise cast it,
purely due to the severity of the issue, and the damage even a small %
of such population could cause.   The recent RDP issue I think being one
of them.

So long as your border gateway device is secure, and correctly
configured (UPnP disabled) updated and so on, you could survive running
Windows 9x, so long as you never "went anywhere bad" on the 'net, and
that's the problem.

You have in practice, little control where your browser goes.  OK, you
my point it at an otherwise trustworthy site (QRZ, QSL, clublog and so
on.)  But they have adverts on there that are served up by external sites.

Worse, many are animated to catch your eye, and also respond to the
mouse cursor moving across them.  ANYTHING that moves on screen is
running code, and THAT IS where the issue is.  That code can do anything
it wants, as well as what you see it doing.  Someone will probably know
you moved (even unconsciously) your mouse pointer over their add.

Some third party tools ("Ublock Origin" etc) can block many, but not all
of such things.  But many genuine sites that rely on the ad's to provide
revenue to cover running costs, may then block your access to the site
you want.

~ ~ ~

Re your border gateway devices...   Be prepared for some firmware
updates in the near future.  One of the popular embedded OS's used
"VxWorks" has been found to have (at least) 11 critical vulnerabilities,
and this stuff runs in billions of devices world wide, designed to be
interconnected via the web too.

See:- https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-725-notes.pdf  Then scroll down to page
9 or 10 (depending on your reader)

Note too:  New problems for exposed NAS devices, that many people are
unknowingly showing to the world!

73.

Dave G0WBX.

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:

______________________________________________________________
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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Elecraft mailing list
Hi.

You can "fix" regular USB<>Serial devices, to always show up at the same
COM port, when the system (re)starts, or you (re)plug something.   
Plenty of instructions on the interweb, including this which I had a
part in, that seems to work with Windows 10 & earlier.

http://www.w1hkj.com/doku/doku.php?id=howto:taming_the_wild_comport_in_windows

For Linux users, you can use "udev rules" to do the same (and more.)

I have no idea re MAC's, but you could ask about the issue on any of the
*BSD mailing lists.

73.

Dave G0WBX.


On 02/08/2019 02:02, Bill Johnson wrote:

> Totally agreed.  Issues with Win 10 are, in my IT experience, usually
> user created problems.  Yes port assignments can change, even by
> replugging a usb port.  To me this is of little bother, unless I was
> removing, then would need remote access to correct which isn't that
> difficult.
>
> Bill
> 920-421-1172
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [hidden email]
> <[hidden email]> on behalf of Dave B via Elecraft
> <[hidden email]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 1, 2019 4:15:01 AM
> *To:* [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio
>  
> Re:-
>
> If your radio computers must be connected to the internet, as mine are
> for DX clusters, Club Log, firmware updates, etc., etc., then this may
> not be a good idea, since older systems are targets for malware. When
> MS stops supplying security patches, the situation will become even worse.
>
> Victor 4X6GP
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ALL systems are targets for malware, and crypto currency mining, be
> aware of that.
>
> As for security, well, Windows 7 is OK "Now", but after Feb' next year,
> as has happened within days of Win2k and XP being cast adrift, some
> "new" (previously known to hackers, but unreported to MS) vulnerability
> will be leveraged against Win7.   Win 10 (& perhaps 8.x) will be
> patched, but 7, ?
>
> Depends on what % of the web is still populated by W7 I guess, MS have
> pushed out one or two updates to XP long after they otherwise cast it,
> purely due to the severity of the issue, and the damage even a small %
> of such population could cause.   The recent RDP issue I think being one
> of them.
>
> So long as your border gateway device is secure, and correctly
> configured (UPnP disabled) updated and so on, you could survive running
> Windows 9x, so long as you never "went anywhere bad" on the 'net, and
> that's the problem.
>
> You have in practice, little control where your browser goes.  OK, you
> my point it at an otherwise trustworthy site (QRZ, QSL, clublog and so
> on.)  But they have adverts on there that are served up by external sites.
>
> Worse, many are animated to catch your eye, and also respond to the
> mouse cursor moving across them.  ANYTHING that moves on screen is
> running code, and THAT IS where the issue is.  That code can do anything
> it wants, as well as what you see it doing.  Someone will probably know
> you moved (even unconsciously) your mouse pointer over their add.
>
> Some third party tools ("Ublock Origin" etc) can block many, but not all
> of such things.  But many genuine sites that rely on the ad's to provide
> revenue to cover running costs, may then block your access to the site
> you want.
>
> ~ ~ ~
>
> Re your border gateway devices...   Be prepared for some firmware
> updates in the near future.  One of the popular embedded OS's used
> "VxWorks" has been found to have (at least) 11 critical vulnerabilities,
> and this stuff runs in billions of devices world wide, designed to be
> interconnected via the web too.
>
> See:- https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-725-notes.pdf  Then scroll down to page
> 9 or 10 (depending on your reader)
>
> Note too:  New problems for exposed NAS devices, that many people are
> unknowingly showing to the world!
>
> 73.
>
> Dave G0WBX.
>
> --
> Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and
> open source software:
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:

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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Bill Frantz
As far as I know, Macs don't have this problem. Those trying to
solve it in Linux might try to understand how Apple addresses
it. With some luck, the Apple approach is in the open source
part of MacOS, making it easy to study. Windows users might
approach Microsoft saying that other OSs have solved the
problem, why does your OS still have it?

73 Bill AE6JV

On 8/2/19 at 2:52 AM, [hidden email] (Dave B via
Elecraft) wrote:

>You can "fix" regular USB<>Serial devices, to always show up at the same
>COM port, when the system (re)starts, or you (re)plug something.   
>Plenty of instructions on the interweb, including this which I had a
>part in, that seems to work with Windows 10 & earlier.
>
>http://www.w1hkj.com/doku/doku.php?id=howto:taming_the_wild_comport_in_windows
>
>For Linux users, you can use "udev rules" to do the same (and more.)
>
>I have no idea re MAC's, but you could ask about the issue on any of the
>*BSD mailing lists.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz        |"After all, if the conventional wisdom was
working, the
408-356-8506       | rate of systems being compromised would be
going down,
www.pwpconsult.com | wouldn't it?" -- Marcus Ranum

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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Mark Musick
I believe this problem has been solved in Windows 10.
I've not had a problem with com ports changing with Windows 10 updates.
The problem has been with audio settings changing. The setting its self doesn't change, but the audio level at that setting changes.  When upgrading to version 1903 I had to increase the PWR (really an audio output) setting in FT8 and increase the line setting on the K3S to get 4 bars solid with the fifth bar flickering.
I think it was Don, W3FPR that mentioned some time ago that the com port assignment problem had been resolved in Windows 10. Of course I could be mistaken. If I am, someone will correct me.

73,
Mark, WB9CIF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Bill Frantz
Sent: Friday, August 2, 2019 13:09
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

As far as I know, Macs don't have this problem. Those trying to solve it in Linux might try to understand how Apple addresses it. With some luck, the Apple approach is in the open source part of MacOS, making it easy to study. Windows users might approach Microsoft saying that other OSs have solved the problem, why does your OS still have it?

73 Bill AE6JV

On 8/2/19 at 2:52 AM, [hidden email] (Dave B via
Elecraft) wrote:

>You can "fix" regular USB<>Serial devices, to always show up at the
>same COM port, when the system (re)starts, or you (re)plug something.
>Plenty of instructions on the interweb, including this which I had a
>part in, that seems to work with Windows 10 & earlier.
>
>http://www.w1hkj.com/doku/doku.php?id=howto:taming_the_wild_comport_in_
>windows
>
>For Linux users, you can use "udev rules" to do the same (and more.)
>
>I have no idea re MAC's, but you could ask about the issue on any of
>the *BSD mailing lists.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz        |"After all, if the conventional wisdom was
working, the
408-356-8506       | rate of systems being compromised would be
going down,
www.pwpconsult.com | wouldn't it?" -- Marcus Ranum

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Bob McGraw - K4TAX
F Y I -  I pass along from another source.

73

Bob, K4TAX

I am beginning, rather belatedly, to understand the source of the many
users reporting low Tx audio levels with the 64-bit MS Windows version
of WSJT-X. I stated above that "Pwr" slider in WSJT-X directly controls
the Windows audio mixer control for the chosen audio output device. That
is no longer the case for the 64-bit version of WSJT-X on... Windows
(built with Qt v5.12.4), instead the "Pwr" control is adjusting a
digital attenuator before the mixer control.

There is no fix available from the Qt team because this change was
deliberate, the problem they were solving is that the level on a Qt
audio output stream is supposed to be separately and individually
adjustable, that's fine if there is only one output stream to the audio
device but if there are multiple streams then using the per-process
mixer level is not going to work since it will adjust the level of every
stream from that process.

To get back to the required level you must set the mixer control for the
WSJT-X application to exactly the level of the master volume for the
output device, do not just set it to maximum as that will potentially
push the master level to above 0dB if your soundcard has an amplifier
stage. To adjust the mixer level you must first initiate a transmission,
a short "Tune" is sufficient to reveal the mixer control for the WSJT-X
application.

I will write up a procedure, tomorrow when I am less tired, that
explains how to do the one time setup for the audio level with the
64-bit Windows version of WSJT-X.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 8/2/2019 8:28 AM, Mark Musick wrote:

> I believe this problem has been solved in Windows 10.
> I've not had a problem with com ports changing with Windows 10 updates.
> The problem has been with audio settings changing. The setting its self doesn't change, but the audio level at that setting changes.  When upgrading to version 1903 I had to increase the PWR (really an audio output) setting in FT8 and increase the line setting on the K3S to get 4 bars solid with the fifth bar flickering.
> I think it was Don, W3FPR that mentioned some time ago that the com port assignment problem had been resolved in Windows 10. Of course I could be mistaken. If I am, someone will correct me.
>
> 73,
> Mark, WB9CIF
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Bill Frantz
> Sent: Friday, August 2, 2019 13:09
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio
>
> As far as I know, Macs don't have this problem. Those trying to solve it in Linux might try to understand how Apple addresses it. With some luck, the Apple approach is in the open source part of MacOS, making it easy to study. Windows users might approach Microsoft saying that other OSs have solved the problem, why does your OS still have it?
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 8/2/19 at 2:52 AM, [hidden email] (Dave B via
> Elecraft) wrote:
>
>> You can "fix" regular USB<>Serial devices, to always show up at the
>> same COM port, when the system (re)starts, or you (re)plug something.
>> Plenty of instructions on the interweb, including this which I had a
>> part in, that seems to work with Windows 10 & earlier.
>>
>> http://www.w1hkj.com/doku/doku.php?id=howto:taming_the_wild_comport_in_
>> windows
>>
>> For Linux users, you can use "udev rules" to do the same (and more.)
>>
>> I have no idea re MAC's, but you could ask about the issue on any of
>> the *BSD mailing lists.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz        |"After all, if the conventional wisdom was
> working, the
> 408-356-8506       | rate of systems being compromised would be
> going down,
> www.pwpconsult.com | wouldn't it?" -- Marcus Ranum
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
______________________________________________________________
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Re: Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

Mark Musick
Thanks Bob.

73,
Mark, WB9CIF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Friday, August 2, 2019 14:25
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio

F Y I -  I pass along from another source.

73

Bob, K4TAX

I am beginning, rather belatedly, to understand the source of the many users reporting low Tx audio levels with the 64-bit MS Windows version of WSJT-X. I stated above that "Pwr" slider in WSJT-X directly controls the Windows audio mixer control for the chosen audio output device. That is no longer the case for the 64-bit version of WSJT-X on... Windows (built with Qt v5.12.4), instead the "Pwr" control is adjusting a digital attenuator before the mixer control.

There is no fix available from the Qt team because this change was deliberate, the problem they were solving is that the level on a Qt audio output stream is supposed to be separately and individually adjustable, that's fine if there is only one output stream to the audio device but if there are multiple streams then using the per-process mixer level is not going to work since it will adjust the level of every stream from that process.

To get back to the required level you must set the mixer control for the WSJT-X application to exactly the level of the master volume for the output device, do not just set it to maximum as that will potentially push the master level to above 0dB if your soundcard has an amplifier stage. To adjust the mixer level you must first initiate a transmission, a short "Tune" is sufficient to reveal the mixer control for the WSJT-X application.

I will write up a procedure, tomorrow when I am less tired, that explains how to do the one time setup for the audio level with the 64-bit Windows version of WSJT-X.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 8/2/2019 8:28 AM, Mark Musick wrote:

> I believe this problem has been solved in Windows 10.
> I've not had a problem with com ports changing with Windows 10 updates.
> The problem has been with audio settings changing. The setting its self doesn't change, but the audio level at that setting changes.  When upgrading to version 1903 I had to increase the PWR (really an audio output) setting in FT8 and increase the line setting on the K3S to get 4 bars solid with the fifth bar flickering.
> I think it was Don, W3FPR that mentioned some time ago that the com port assignment problem had been resolved in Windows 10. Of course I could be mistaken. If I am, someone will correct me.
>
> 73,
> Mark, WB9CIF
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Bill Frantz
> Sent: Friday, August 2, 2019 13:09
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Windows Update and the K3 USB Audio
>
> As far as I know, Macs don't have this problem. Those trying to solve it in Linux might try to understand how Apple addresses it. With some luck, the Apple approach is in the open source part of MacOS, making it easy to study. Windows users might approach Microsoft saying that other OSs have solved the problem, why does your OS still have it?
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 8/2/19 at 2:52 AM, [hidden email] (Dave B via
> Elecraft) wrote:
>
>> You can "fix" regular USB<>Serial devices, to always show up at the
>> same COM port, when the system (re)starts, or you (re)plug something.
>> Plenty of instructions on the interweb, including this which I had a
>> part in, that seems to work with Windows 10 & earlier.
>>
>> http://www.w1hkj.com/doku/doku.php?id=howto:taming_the_wild_comport_i
>> n_
>> windows
>>
>> For Linux users, you can use "udev rules" to do the same (and more.)
>>
>> I have no idea re MAC's, but you could ask about the issue on any of
>> the *BSD mailing lists.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz        |"After all, if the conventional wisdom was
> working, the
> 408-356-8506       | rate of systems being compromised would be
> going down,
> www.pwpconsult.com | wouldn't it?" -- Marcus Ranum
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
>
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