fix toroids in KX3

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fix toroids in KX3

Rooby
This post was updated on .
Hello

I saw that on the KX3 and KXPA100 none of the toriods are fixed or glued to the PCB.
Is there a reason why this was not done by elecraft? After some time the wire will brake if the toroids vibrate especially when transporting the KX3. Normally they should be fxed. I don't think the inductance will change much if they will be fixed with a small dop of glue.
Has someone done this already or will elecraft do this in the future?


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Re: fix toroids in KX3

Don Wilhelm-4
Elecraft specifically warns that fixatives of any kind not be used on
toroids.
I don't know if that statement appears in the KX3 or KXPA100 documents,
but it appears in all manuals where the toroids are wound by the builder.
The toroids are adequately supported by their leads alone.
For one example, I built a K2 for an over-the-road truck driver, and I
know he used it mobile in his truck for more than 3 years.  No fixatives
were used on the toroids, and no failures were experienced because of
the high vibration environment.

As another example, I repair the KX1, K1, and K2 transceivers - they are
shipped to me by either the postal system or UPS.  In over 1000 repairs,
I have never found any case where the toroid leads have been broken.

Fixatives are not necessary, and I believe using them in the KX3 or
KXPA100 will void your warranty.
Many fixatives will change the inductance and Q of the toroids.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/27/2014 6:10 AM, Rooby wrote:

> Hello
>
> I saw that on the KX3 and KXPA100 none of the toriods are fixed or glued to
> the PCB.
> Is there a reason why this was not done by eleraft? Because After some time
> the wire will brake if the toroids vibrate especially when transporting the
> KX3. Normally they should be fxed. I don't think the inductance will change
> much if they will be fixed with a small dop of glue.
> Has someone done this already or will elecraft do this in the future?
>
>

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Re: fix toroids in KX3

Dave KW4M
In reply to this post by Rooby
For most normal means of transportation this is not an issue.

However, I have experienced this exact failure mode in radios and a switching-mode AA battery charger while traveling on my motorcycle, which is certainly a high vibration environment.  I've found that glue from a hot melt glue gun will provide the needed mechanical support and will not detune RF circuits.

I have not transported any Elecraft equipment on the bike yet but I do not see why it would be any different.
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Re: fix toroids in KX3

Rooby
Thans for the replies and experiences.
I have also seen broken wires on coils (not elecraft) which were not fixed on the PCB. I was wondering about this when I was assembling the KX3 and KXPA100.
Most electronic manufactures tighten their coils and even some capacitors with silicone glue.
I don't think that some glue will affect the magnetic field since most of the field is anyway inside the toroid.
It may change a bit the capacitance and resonant frequency.
I don't kow if elecraft just skip this extra efford or if there is some good reason not to do.
I see some of the toroid coils are quite loosy and have small wires compared to their mass.
Would be good to know if the warranty will be void if I fix at least some of the coils with a bit of glue.
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Re: fix toroids in KX3

Don Wilhelm-4
The KX3 will be covered under the warranty if the toroid wires break -
*unless* some fixative has been added.
I would suggest waiting until the end of your warranty period before
doing anything like adding fixatives.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/27/2014 9:32 AM, Rooby wrote:

> Thans for the replies and experiences.
> I have also seen broken wires on coils (not elecraft) which were not fixed
> on the PCB. I was wondering about this when I was assembling the KX3 and
> KXPA100.
> Most electronic manufactures tighten their coils and even some capacitors
> with silicone glue.
> I don't think that some glue will affect the magnetic field since most of
> the field is anyway inside the toroid.
> It may change a bit the capacitance and resonant frequency.
> I don't kow if elecraft just skip this extra efford or if there is some good
> reason not to do.
> I see some of the toroid coils are quite loosy and have small wires compared
> to their mass.
> Would be good to know if the warranty will be void if I fix at least some of
> the coils with a bit of glue.
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/fix-toroids-in-KX3-tp7591651p7591657.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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Re: fix toroids in KX3

Rooby
This post was updated on .
Don Wilhelm-4 wrote
I would suggest waiting until the end of your warranty period before
doing anything like adding fixatives.
Yes I agree. But it would be nice if anyone from elecraft could comment why they see no need for fixing the coils.
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Re: fix toroids in KX3

Phil Wheeler-2
I suspect they have many times. Try going to
http://marc.info/?l=elecraft and checking Subject
with toroid entered into the Search box.

Phil W7OX

On 7/27/14, 9:40 AM, Rooby wrote:
> Don Wilhelm-4 wrote
>> I would suggest waiting until the end of your warranty period before
>> doing anything like adding fixatives.
> Yes I agree. But it would be nice if anyone from elecraft could commet why
> they see no need for fixing the coils.
>
>
>
>

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Re: fix toroids in KX3

turnbull
In reply to this post by Rooby
Gentlemen,
     If Elecraft has so little trouble then why do it.    After all it might
make repairs more problematic.   I do understand that someone using a KX3 on
a motor bike may have a need but this is not a common application.  

      It is a good question though, so please do not take this as being
critical of it being posed.

      73 Doug EI2CN   K3, KX3, KX1



-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rooby
Sent: 27 July 2014 16:41
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] fix toroids in KX3

Don Wilhelm-4 wrote
> I would suggest waiting until the end of your warranty period before
> doing anything like adding fixatives.

Yes I agree. But it would be nice if anyone from elecraft could commet why
they see no need for fixing the coils.




--
View this message in context:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/fix-toroids-in-KX3-tp7591651p7591661.ht
ml
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: fix toroids in KX3

Elecraft mailing list
In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2
So far, the first 14 had nothing to do with anything other than this discussion, or toroids that were damaged by heat because they had power (DC) fed to the output of the radio.  

Then there was a toroid that was wound incorrectly... in a K2 kit, purchases of cores,  Antenna discussions of an end fed.... Running power fed to the radio through a toroid, Then a K2 with a problem with drift. And then several involving wall warts that were broadcasting. An older pa making noise (relays).. signalink distortion, and 2 messages about "over the years the toroids used have changed...."

Not a lot of trouble with toroids, I'd say.




 
KK4QDZ - Now with Extra Class Priv's, and a tiny KX3 to enjoy them!


________________________________
 From: Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] fix toroids in KX3
 

I suspect they have many times. Try going to
http://marc.info/?l=elecraft and checking Subject
with toroid entered into the Search box.

Phil W7OX




On 7/27/14, 9:40 AM, Rooby wrote:
> Don Wilhelm-4 wrote
>> I would suggest waiting until the end of your warranty period before
>> doing anything like adding fixatives.
> Yes I agree. But it would be nice if anyone from elecraft could commet why
> they see no need for fixing the coils.
>
>
>
>

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