kx3 aircraft radio

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kx3 aircraft radio

glen@worstell.com
Message: 29
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:42:15 -0500
From: "James Meade" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 Avionics Receive
Message-ID: <op.wul28pfriyp58p@tower>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;
        delsp=yes
...

1.  As I posted in the OP, I have an experimental aircraft and therefore
do not need a TSO'd radio, per FAR 91.205.  This position is well
documented in experimental aircraft and avionics circles so I won't repeat
it all here, just note it for the benefit of those more familiar with
standard certificated airplanes which do have to meet FAR 91.205.  I
would, of course, be sure the radio complied with FCC rules per CFR Title
47 Part 87, which talks to airplane stations, especially 87.131.

---------------------------------

mars frequencies are usually close to ham band edges.

aircraft transceiver frequencies are not even close (118-136 MHz).

the kx3 would require extensive mods to work on those frequencies. Not
worth the effort, imho.

It might be feasible to build a transverter, tho.

BTW, for certified aircraft it would be legal to use an non-tso'd radio
for emergency communications only. If your backup radio is intended for
use only when your main radio craps out you may feel OK doing that, but
I'd remove the radio during annual inspections.

Glen, KG0T
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Re: kx3 aircraft radio

Mark Bayern
As was pointed out earlier, the problem is not the FAA regulations,
but the FCC regulations.

Mark  AD5SS (and a handful of commercial FCC licenses)



On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 7:42 PM, glen worstell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Message: 29
> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:42:15 -0500
> From: "James Meade" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 Avionics Receive
> Message-ID: <op.wul28pfriyp58p@tower>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;
>         delsp=yes
> ...
>
> 1.  As I posted in the OP, I have an experimental aircraft and therefore
> do not need a TSO'd radio, per FAR 91.205.  This position is well
> documented in experimental aircraft and avionics circles so I won't repeat
> it all here, just note it for the benefit of those more familiar with
> standard certificated airplanes which do have to meet FAR 91.205.  I
> would, of course, be sure the radio complied with FCC rules per CFR Title
> 47 Part 87, which talks to airplane stations, especially 87.131.
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> mars frequencies are usually close to ham band edges.
>
> aircraft transceiver frequencies are not even close (118-136 MHz).
>
> the kx3 would require extensive mods to work on those frequencies. Not
> worth the effort, imho.
>
> It might be feasible to build a transverter, tho.
>
> BTW, for certified aircraft it would be legal to use an non-tso'd radio
> for emergency communications only. If your backup radio is intended for
> use only when your main radio craps out you may feel OK doing that, but
> I'd remove the radio during annual inspections.
>
> Glen, KG0T
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Re: kx3 aircraft radio

David Christ
See April 2013 QST page 20.  

David K0LUM

On Mar 27, 2013, at 10:01 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
But, according to a recent pose on this reflector, at least one commercial
airplane pilot Ham licensee uses the cockpit radio to work Ham stations on
the Ham bands when making long flights. That was surprise to me given my
experience with the limitations imposed on shipboard radio systems.

73 Ron AC7AC


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Re: kx3 aircraft radio

Mark Bayern
> See April 2013 QST page 20.

OK, I checked. Apparently this is not an April fool's article.

However, the operator uses an aircraft HF radio for his amateur
contacts. He does not put an amateur radio on the aircraft freqs,
which is the subject of this thread.

I do wonder what US Airways and the FAA think about a pilot engaging
in a hobby while flying an A330 full of passengers? Being distracted
while flying has been an issue:
<http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/03/15/wayward.pilots.licenses/index.html?_s=PM:TRAVEL>


Mark  AD5SS



On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, David Christ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> See April 2013 QST page 20.
>
> David K0LUM
>
> On Mar 27, 2013, at 10:01 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> But, according to a recent pose on this reflector, at least one commercial
> airplane pilot Ham licensee uses the cockpit radio to work Ham stations on
> the Ham bands when making long flights. That was surprise to me given my
> experience with the limitations imposed on shipboard radio systems.
>
> 73 Ron AC7AC
>
>
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Re: kx3 aircraft radio

KENT TRIMBLE
Two years ago I took a K3 and a KPA500 to a Scouting retreat at Our Lady
of Sorrows Shrine in Starkenburg, Missouri, to demonstrate Amateur
Radio.  One of our 20-meter SSB contacts that weekend was with the
captain of a Boeing 757 at 35,000 feet over Nebraska en route to Dallas.
Imagine the thrill that brought to those kids.  Imagine the thrill it
brought to the six old guys in our radio club who helped me that day!  
And it wasn't a hello/goodbye kind of QSO either.  He talked one-on-one
with several of the Scouts, answered their questions, and repeatedly
encouraged them to explore Amateur Radio has a great way for young
people to prepare for a multitude of disciplines and vocations.

As for safety and distracted flying . . . I'd fly with that captain
anywhere anytime.

73,

Kent Trimble, K9ZTV
Jefferson City, MO



On 3/27/2013 10:46 PM, someone wrote:
> I do wonder what US Airways and the FAA think about a pilot engaging
> in a hobby while flying an A330 full of passengers? Being distracted
> while flying has been an issue

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Re: kx3 aircraft radio

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by Mark Bayern
On 3/27/2013 8:46 PM, Mark Bayern wrote:
> I do wonder what US Airways and the FAA think about a pilot engaging
> in a hobby while flying an A330 full of passengers? Being distracted
> while flying has been an issue:

There are several well trained pilots on commercial airline flights, and
under "normal" conditions, I suspect things are pretty boring in the
cockpit. It's when things go wrong that those guys earn their money.
Many years ago, I worked as a photographer for a guy who was a pilot for
American Airlines, and who shot lots of great photography from the
cockpit. His part time gig was running his own A/V production company,
where I was his employee.

In today's world with a fixation on security and extensive scrutiny of
even the slightest fault, we should remember that it was not always
thus. There were, for example, instances of hams taking rigs on board an
airliner and receiving permission of the captain to use them. And there
have always been pilots with ham tickets who have fired up their ham
rigs when things are slow enough to justify doing so.

Yes, the OFFICIAL use of radio equipment on board an aircraft for
purposes of operating that aircraft requires type acceptance, but last I
looked, the Captain of an aircraft (or ship) could authorize use of
other radio gear onboard for other purposes. It's a judgement call, and
requires that the captain be technically competent and able to assess
that the passenger is also.

Many is the time that I've used a pocket portable FM RX onboard a
commercial flight to tune in NPR stations on the bottom 4 MHz of the FM
band, understanding that my local oscillator would be below the
frequencies used for navigation, and thus incapable of causing
interference to inflight communications. I wouldn't have dreamed of
tuning higher in the band, both because the local oscillator could
interfere, and because I had zero interest in the crap those stations
transmit. :)

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: kx3 aircraft radio

Rich Ardolino
In reply to this post by Mark Bayern


I have heard WQ3W doing qso's on 17 & 20meters  from an Airbus A330  while in flight  many times,

  and he gave my K2 a 59+ on the one occasion I called him....he usually has a pile up.



Rich  K2CPE

K2 #1102



----- Original Message -----


From: "Mark Bayern" <[hidden email]>
To: "David Christ" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 11:46:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] kx3 aircraft radio

> See April 2013 QST page 20.

OK, I checked. Apparently this is not an April fool's article.

However, the operator uses an aircraft HF radio for his amateur
contacts. He does not put an amateur radio on the aircraft freqs,
which is the subject of this thread.

I do wonder what US Airways and the FAA think about a pilot engaging
in a hobby while flying an A330 full of passengers? Being distracted
while flying has been an issue:
<http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/03/15/wayward.pilots.licenses/index.html?_s=PM:TRAVEL>


Mark  AD5SS



On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, David Christ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> See April 2013 QST page 20.
>
> David K0LUM
>
> On Mar 27, 2013, at 10:01 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> But, according to a recent pose on this reflector, at least one commercial
> airplane pilot Ham licensee uses the cockpit radio to work Ham stations on
> the Ham bands when making long flights. That was surprise to me given my
> experience with the limitations imposed on shipboard radio systems.
>
> 73 Ron AC7AC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft 
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
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Re: kx3 aircraft radio

Bob Baxter-5
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Boy, this is all news to me.  As a career airline mechanic, since retired, I'm unaware of any HF radio equipment on board that is capable of operating on the ham bands.  The only HF carried on our airplanes was Automatic Direction Finding and that was receive only and emergency only.  Some Canadian airliners carried HF due to the distance between stations.  But what do I know, I've been retired 25 years.

 
Yes, the OFFICIAL use of radio equipment on board an aircraft for purposes of operating that aircraft requires type acceptance, but last I looked, the Captain of an aircraft (or ship) could authorize use of other radio gear onboard for other purposes. It's a judgement call, and requires that the captain be technically competent and able to assess that the passenger is also.

 
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Re: kx3 aircraft radio

Mark Bayern
>>"The only HF carried on our airplanes was Automatic Direction Finding ...

HF is used for long over water flights when you are out of range of
any VHF stations.

>>"the Captain of an aircraft (or ship) could authorize use of other radio gear onboard for other purposes.

Yes, but once again that is using the equipment as it was certified.
Amateur equipment on amateur frequencies.


It is probably time to let this topic die off. If we continue I expect
we'll be hearing from Eric.  :)


Mark  AD5SS




On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Bob Baxter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Boy, this is all news to me.  As a career airline mechanic, since retired, I'm unaware of any HF radio equipment on board that is capable of operating on the ham bands.  The only HF carried on our airplanes was Automatic Direction Finding and that was receive only and emergency only.  Some Canadian airliners carried HF due to the distance between stations.  But what do I know, I've been retired 25 years.
>
>
> Yes, the OFFICIAL use of radio equipment on board an aircraft for purposes of operating that aircraft requires type acceptance, but last I looked, the Captain of an aircraft (or ship) could authorize use of other radio gear onboard for other purposes. It's a judgement call, and requires that the captain be technically competent and able to assess that the passenger is also.
>
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Re: kx3 aircraft radio

Gary Smith-2
In reply to this post by glen@worstell.com
I remember a Delta pilot who used to get on HF on his cross country
flights, talked about a lot of DX up there. Used the radio in the
cabin.

Back in the mid 80's I took a trip to Florida from St. Louis and
asked permission to use my 2M handie and was granted permission by
the captain. Held the antenna against the glass & I could trip many
repeaters at the same time from 5 miles up. I made quite a few
simplex QSOs as well.

K3 Content - Thanks for the on & off list help with my SSB issue.
While I still haven't had an opinion from someone with a scope, I've
been getting better signal reports after making some suggested
settings changes.

Gary
KA1J

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Re: kx3 aircraft radio

vk2rq
In reply to this post by Mark Bayern
On 29/03/2013, at 12:48 AM, Mark Bayern <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It is probably time to let this topic die off. If we continue I expect
> we'll be hearing from Eric.  :)

Agreed, and the whole topic is academic anyway, since the KX3 can't even receive aircraft band, let alone transmit on it.

73, Matt VK2RQ
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Re: kx3 aircraft radio

W5RDW
I use to run phone patches (remember those?!) in the 70's for a commercial airline pilot who was a ham. He would contact me when he left San Francisco for his regular run from SF to Hawaii to LA and talked to his wife on a number of occasions. I think he was flying for Braniff.
Roger W5RDW
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Re: kx3 aircraft radio

R Thompson
In reply to this post by Bob Baxter-5
As a current Canadian Avionics E licenced mechanic with over 30 years
experience, including quite a bit of HF, I can tell you that there are
many makes and models of HF gear, including Collins, Bendix/King,
Sunaire,... that could be directly channelled from the cockpit.  All HF
gear for a couple of decades now have used antenna autotuners.  Its not
then a matter of ability but whether its permitted.  Given the number of
known incidents of cockpit crew falling asleep during long flights, I
would think that being able to chat on HF might help at least one of the
pilots stay awake.

      Ron VE8RT

On Thu, 2013-03-28 at 06:15 -0700, Bob Baxter wrote:

> Boy, this is all news to me.  As a career airline mechanic, since retired, I'm unaware of any HF radio equipment on board that is capable of operating on the ham bands.  The only HF carried on our airplanes was Automatic Direction Finding and that was receive only and emergency only.  Some Canadian airliners carried HF due to the distance between stations.  But what do I know, I've been retired 25 years.
>
>  
> Yes, the OFFICIAL use of radio equipment on board an aircraft for purposes of operating that aircraft requires type acceptance, but last I looked, the Captain of an aircraft (or ship) could authorize use of other radio gear onboard for other purposes. It's a judgement call, and requires that the captain be technically competent and able to assess that the passenger is also.
>
>  
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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