new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

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new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

KD8NNU
Gents,

I wish to get a new computer for the shack and want to have one that is RF quiet and has real serial ports.

I am guessing that others have purchased some PC’s recently and would have some suggestions on some that are HAM friendly with a K3.  

I use a K3, KAT500, W2 and HRD for rig control.

Any thoughts suggestions before I purchase something would be greatly appreciated.


~73
Don
KD8NNU
-.- -.. ---.. -. -. ..-
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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Richard E Neese
99.8% of all new computers will no longer have serial ports USB is the
standard now.

there  are ways to get around this get a usb to serial cable or look at
edge port usb to multi serial port units they came in 2/4/8 port units.

and then look at heavy duty usb cables with the good shielding in them.
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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

daleputnam
And be sure to investigate carefully before plugging that usb to serial cable directly intothe back of your Elecraft equipment, for example, the K2 may not like a usb/serial cable.

Have a great day,
 
 
--...   ...--
Dale - WC7S in Wy
 
 


> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 09:12:27 -0400
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3
>
> 99.8% of all new computers will no longer have serial ports USB is the
> standard now.
>
> there  are ways to get around this get a usb to serial cable or look at
> edge port usb to multi serial port units they came in 2/4/8 port units.
>
> and then look at heavy duty usb cables with the good shielding in them.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
     
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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Mike K2MK
In reply to this post by KD8NNU
Hi Don,

It's been 5 years since I purchased a computer but the approach I followed then should still be relevant. If you buy a desktop style PC there will be a means for adding additional cards in slots. Then just buy a serial card on Amazon.com with the same bus nomenclature and you'll be rewarded with 2 or 4 real serial DB9 connectors with real numbers such as com 1, com 2, etc..

73,
Mike K2MK

Goldtr8 (KD8NNU) wrote
Gents,

I wish to get a new computer for the shack and want to have one that is RF quiet and has real serial ports.

I am guessing that others have purchased some PC’s recently and would have some suggestions on some that are HAM friendly with a K3.  

I use a K3, KAT500, W2 and HRD for rig control.

Any thoughts suggestions before I purchase something would be greatly appreciated.

~73
Don
KD8NNU
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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Richard E Neese
if you use a pci card serial its just like using a usb to serial or a
edge port serial port replicator.

its a add on.

I use usb to serial cables with my devices and have no issue.
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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

tomb18
Hi
USB to serial port cables are not like they used to be when drivers were immature. Now a days, most will work fine.. I have keyspan adapters which have certified drivers but I also picked up a no name prolific cable that works fine in XP win 7 and 8.
I would be more concerned about noise potential having a board added to my pc that with these cables that can be wrapped with some ferrites.
That being said use a good quality FTDI based USB to serial adapter and you are good to go.
On the pc side stay away from the cheap house brands unless they use a good power supply such as the pc power and cooling brand.
Get a decent monitor from Samsung or dell for example. No rfi in my experience.

Regards, Tom
va2fsq.com

Sent from my iPhone

On 2013-08-10, at 10:47 AM, Richard Neese <[hidden email]> wrote:

> if you use a pci card serial its just like using a usb to serial or a edge port serial port replicator.
>
> its a add on.
>
> I use usb to serial cables with my devices and have no issue.
> ______________________________________________________________
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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Bob-270
In reply to this post by Richard E Neese
In addition to the Edge Ports I had favorable results with one of these:

http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Serial-Cards-Adapters/8-Port-USB-to-RS232-Serial-DB9-Adapter-Hub~ICUSB2328 
<http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Serial-Cards-Adapters/8-Port-USB-to-RS232-Serial-DB9-Adapter-Hub%7EICUSB2328>

Uses the FTDI chipset.  I got mine for $67 new in box on EBay. Have 7 ports in
use with no problems and 1 more on the true serial ports on the desktop. No more
swapping cables or issues, was plug and play...    When I was hunting even the
used Edge Port units were going  for far more.

Since it would be on the end of a 15 ft USB cable and 10 ft serial cables back
to the gear I did use an external supply for it. It has a plug for that option.
   No ingress or egress RFI issues that I could detect even though it is just a
plastic box.

73,
Bob
K2TK  ex KN2TKR (1956) &  K2TKR


On 8/10/2013 10:47 AM, Richard Neese wrote:
> if you use a pci card serial its just like using a usb to serial or a edge
> port serial port replicator.
>
> its a add on.
>
> I use usb to serial cables with my devices and have no issue.

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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Don,

Another approach you might take is find a company local to your QTH that
will custom-build you a computer.  There are several such companies near my
metro Atlanta home, and prices will vary based on the options you choose.
This allows you to specify how many serial ports you want, which can be
included as add-on cards during the build.  You also get to specify just how
much memory, how powerful a CPU, how much hard drive space, etc., your
computer will have.  This also allows you to specify what base operating
system and other software is installed on the system, so you can avoid much
of the bloat-ware that comes on readily available off-the-shelf systems
built by the popular manufacturers and available from the big-box stores.

73,

-- Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688, KPA500 #1468
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 12:00 PM
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

In addition to the Edge Ports I had favorable results with one of these:

http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Serial-Cards-Adapters/8-Port-USB-to-R
S232-Serial-DB9-Adapter-Hub~ICUSB2328
<http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Serial-Cards-Adapters/8-Port-USB-to-
RS232-Serial-DB9-Adapter-Hub%7EICUSB2328>

Uses the FTDI chipset.  I got mine for $67 new in box on EBay. Have 7 ports
in use with no problems and 1 more on the true serial ports on the desktop.
No more
swapping cables or issues, was plug and play...    When I was hunting even
the
used Edge Port units were going  for far more.

Since it would be on the end of a 15 ft USB cable and 10 ft serial cables
back to the gear I did use an external supply for it. It has a plug for that
option.
   No ingress or egress RFI issues that I could detect even though it is
just a plastic box.

73,
Bob
K2TK  ex KN2TKR (1956) &  K2TKR


On 8/10/2013 10:47 AM, Richard Neese wrote:
> if you use a pci card serial its just like using a usb to serial or a
> edge port serial port replicator.
>
> its a add on.
>
> I use usb to serial cables with my devices and have no issue.

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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Mike Harris-9
In reply to this post by tomb18
Nothing wrong with add on boards.  I've fitted a two port to my latest
Dell PC.  I also use home made serial cables made from CAT-6 to the Jim
Brown K9YC recipe.  Similarly no rfi and not a ferrite in sight.

Using one of the original Prolific adapters from Elecraft resulted in
some noise on 6m.  Interestingly, placing my home made cable in between
the adapter and the K3 killed off the noise.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

On 10/08/2013 12:03, Tom wrote:
> Hi
> USB to serial port cables are not like they used to be when drivers were immature. Now a days, most will work fine.. I have keyspan adapters which have certified drivers but I also picked up a no name prolific cable that works fine in XP win 7 and 8.
> I would be more concerned about noise potential having a board added to my pc that with these cables that can be wrapped with some ferrites.
> That being said use a good quality FTDI based USB to serial adapter and you are good to go.
> On the pc side stay away from the cheap house brands unless they use a good power supply such as the pc power and cooling brand.
> Get a decent monitor from Samsung or dell for example. No rfi in my experience.
>
> Regards, Tom
> va2fsq.com
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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Nicklas Johnson
In reply to this post by KD8NNU
I built my own last PC, and though it isn't RF-quiet, it's pretty close,
but partially by serendipity.  The only thing "noisy" about it are the
ethernet ports, and some big snap-on chokes have greatly mitigated that
problem.

The way I stumbled upon a fairly quiet PC has to do with some design
motives that I had.  What I wanted was an audibly-quiet PC that used very
minimal power.  Quite by accident this also resulted in an RF-quiet PC.

Here's what I bought: a horzontally-oriented "home theater PC" case from
Antec; these are designed to contain audible noise well, and they're also
quite sturdy, and, more importantly for us, metal all the way around.  The
exact case I bought is no longer on the market, but there is probably an
equivalent successor to it.  Mine is an "NSK2400".

In this case I mounted a micro-ATX Intel motherboard.  They only make a few
micro-ATX boards, and you sacrifice a little bit of raw processing speed
and expansion slots for a compact form factor and, more importantly, lower
power consumption.  The good news is that their recent micro-ATX boards
have a ton of USB slots, so although you have fewer PCI slots, you also
don't need many, especially if you can get by with the integrated video.
 I'm not much of a gamer, so I just use the on-board video, and it is fine
for everything I've ever wanted to do.  It would probably not be that great
for playing a full-motion first-person shooter game, but it'll run HRD or
FlDigi/FlRig just fine.  The motherboard I'm using is an Intel DQ67SW,
though it is now several years old, and something newer/better is probably
available by now.

After a while, I blew the power supply that came with the motherboard, and
at that time I replaced it with a "green" Antec power supply.  These have
higher efficiency, and, it seems, less noise.  They also seem to be
grounded properly.

So my suggestion would be to build a "home theater PC" or look for one
pre-built in a nice steel case.  It's a bit more work to build your own,
but if you built a K3, putting a PC together should be totally doable...
and this way you get to be choosy about your components.  Then get one of
the many USB-to-DB9 cables available out in the wild for your serial ports,
or get one of the PCI serial port boards to put in.  I doubt you'll have a
very easy time finding any motherboards these days that still have DB9
headers or connectors.

Of course the big downside to building your own PC is that you have to buy
a copy of Windows if you want to use it, though OEM versions are available
online for a bit less than what the consumer versions cost if you don't or
won't require Microsoft support.

Hope this helps,

   Nick





On 10 August 2013 05:59, Goldtr8 (KD8NNU) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Gents,
>
> I wish to get a new computer for the shack and want to have one that is RF
> quiet and has real serial ports.
>
> I am guessing that others have purchased some PC’s recently and would have
> some suggestions on some that are HAM friendly with a K3.
>
> I use a K3, KAT500, W2 and HRD for rig control.
>
> Any thoughts suggestions before I purchase something would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
>
> ~73
> Don
> KD8NNU
> -.- -.. ---.. -. -. ..-
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html




--
*N6OL*
Saying something doesn't make it true.  Belief in something doesn't make it
real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not
worth supporting.
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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
A seller can legally provide an OEM version if you buy it along with
computer hardware -- so you might want to avoid buying the hardware and
then getting Windows as an afterthought, or spreading your hardware
purchases and software across several vendors.

Of course, you could run Ubuntu or Puppy or something that wasn't
produced in Redmond.

On 8/10/2013 10:19 AM, Nicklas Johnson wrote:
> Of course the big downside to building your own PC is that you have to buy
> a copy of Windows if you want to use it, though OEM versions are available
> online for a bit less than what the consumer versions cost if you don't or
> won't require Microsoft support.

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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

W6ODJ
Just to throw an alligator into the discussion, you might consider a Mac Mini.  I use all Mac hardware with my K3 and other stuff, and it works well.  Besides the usual OSX stuff, you get a BSD Unix box that will also run X-windows.  And you can dual boot MS Windows if you have a copy, for those few but vital programs that are only available in Windows.  You can even dual boot Linux, although with a Unix box there is less need to do so.

Oliver
W6ODJ


On 10 Jan. 2013, at 11:01 AM, "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A seller can legally provide an OEM version if you buy it along with computer hardware -- so you might want to avoid buying the hardware and then getting Windows as an afterthought, or spreading your hardware purchases and software across several vendors.
>
> Of course, you could run Ubuntu or Puppy or something that wasn't produced in Redmond.
>
> On 8/10/2013 10:19 AM, Nicklas Johnson wrote:
>> Of course the big downside to building your own PC is that you have to buy
>> a copy of Windows if you want to use it, though OEM versions are available
>> online for a bit less than what the consumer versions cost if you don't or
>> won't require Microsoft support.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Bill Frantz
Please allow me to hijack this thread to ask about low power
draw computers for use with the K3.

Last field day I set up our club's digital station with a K3/10,
SignaLink USB, and a MacBook Pro. The combination worked very
well, but the MacBook Pro, connected through the Apple power
adapter and a Radio Shack inverter drew 3 to 4 times as much
power as all the rest of the system. I used the Elecraft USB
<--> RS232 cable for rig control.

So I am looking for a computer that runs on 12 volts and draws a
minimum amount of current. It should be low noise and all those
other good things as well. My OS preferences are in order: MacOS
-- because I know it, flavors of Linux -- so I won't have to
configure a Windows system and deal with Microsoft's license
verification, and finally Windows.

On the MacBook Pro I was running cocoaModem and RUMped. I expect
on other OSes I will run fldigi and a contest logger to be names later.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz        |The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506      |is there are so many to choose| 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |from.   - Andrew Tanenbaum    | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Richard E Neese
well look at a netbook .  or a small tablet pc and use a external
battery and not a inverter.

I have talked to people that use as netbook and a 12v 7Ah batt and spend
almost 9 hours contesting.

and on a 12v 17Ah deep cycle marine battery.  you can go a day or 2 with
a kx3 and a netbook.



--
R.Neese
KB3VGW

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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Matt Zilmer
In reply to this post by Bill Frantz
You might try the various automotive multimedia PCs.  All of them are
12V, and some have pretty decent power savings modes.

Here's an example from Mini Box:
http://www.mini-box.com/VoomPC-2-Car-PC-with-Intel-Atom-D2700DC-board?sc=8&category=1543
That one can run Win7-32.

73,
matt W6NIA

On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 06:27:48 -0700, you wrote:

>Please allow me to hijack this thread to ask about low power
>draw computers for use with the K3.
>
>Last field day I set up our club's digital station with a K3/10,
>SignaLink USB, and a MacBook Pro. The combination worked very
>well, but the MacBook Pro, connected through the Apple power
>adapter and a Radio Shack inverter drew 3 to 4 times as much
>power as all the rest of the system. I used the Elecraft USB
><--> RS232 cable for rig control.
>
>So I am looking for a computer that runs on 12 volts and draws a
>minimum amount of current. It should be low noise and all those
>other good things as well. My OS preferences are in order: MacOS
>-- because I know it, flavors of Linux -- so I won't have to
>configure a Windows system and deal with Microsoft's license
>verification, and finally Windows.
>
>On the MacBook Pro I was running cocoaModem and RUMped. I expect
>on other OSes I will run fldigi and a contest logger to be names later.
>
>Does anyone have any suggestions?
>
>Cheers - Bill, AE6JV
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Bill Frantz        |The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle
>(408)356-8506      |is there are so many to choose| 16345
>Englewood Ave
>www.pwpconsult.com |from.   - Andrew Tanenbaum    | Los Gatos,
>CA 95032
>
>______________________________________________________________
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>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Richard E Neese
In reply to this post by Bill Frantz
You can also look at linux on a beaglebone black or a raspi..... wich
are low power arm pc..

--
R.Neese
KB3VGW

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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

David Sanders W4DES
In reply to this post by Bill Frantz
You might like to use a Macbook Air.  12 hrs on a charge.

73,
David W4DES
K3 #7409






On Aug 12, 2013, at 9:27 AM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Please allow me to hijack this thread to ask about low power draw computers for use with the K3.
>
> Last field day I set up our club's digital station with a K3/10, SignaLink USB, and a MacBook Pro. The combination worked very well, but the MacBook Pro, connected through the Apple power adapter and a Radio Shack inverter drew 3 to 4 times as much power as all the rest of the system. I used the Elecraft USB <--> RS232 cable for rig control.
>
> So I am looking for a computer that runs on 12 volts and draws a minimum amount of current. It should be low noise and all those other good things as well. My OS preferences are in order: MacOS -- because I know it, flavors of Linux -- so I won't have to configure a Windows system and deal with Microsoft's license verification, and finally Windows.
>
> On the MacBook Pro I was running cocoaModem and RUMped. I expect on other OSes I will run fldigi and a contest logger to be names later.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>
> Cheers - Bill, AE6JV
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz        |The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle
> (408)356-8506      |is there are so many to choose| 16345 Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com |from.   - Andrew Tanenbaum    | Los Gatos, CA 95032
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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Richard E Neese
http://www.ewayco.com/ 
<http://www.ewayco.com/51-embedded-systems-100-PC-mini-ITX-low-cost/11-tk-800mhz-low-cost-pc-embedded-system.html>

  R.Neese KB3VGW
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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Peter Wollan-2
In reply to this post by Bill Frantz
Pignology has a wifi interface that makes an iPad feasible as a
logging/controlling computer.  There's a version of Rumlog for iPad, as
well as Pignology's Hamlog.  Android tablets reportedly work as well.

Peter W0LLN


On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 8:27 AM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Please allow me to hijack this thread to ask about low power draw
> computers for use with the K3.
>
> Last field day I set up our club's digital station with a K3/10, SignaLink
> USB, and a MacBook Pro. The combination worked very well, but the MacBook
> Pro, connected through the Apple power adapter and a Radio Shack inverter
> drew 3 to 4 times as much power as all the rest of the system. I used the
> Elecraft USB <--> RS232 cable for rig control.
>
> So I am looking for a computer that runs on 12 volts and draws a minimum
> amount of current. It should be low noise and all those other good things
> as well. My OS preferences are in order: MacOS -- because I know it,
> flavors of Linux -- so I won't have to configure a Windows system and deal
> with Microsoft's license verification, and finally Windows.
>
> On the MacBook Pro I was running cocoaModem and RUMped. I expect on other
> OSes I will run fldigi and a contest logger to be names later.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>
> Cheers - Bill, AE6JV
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> -----------
> Bill Frantz        |The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle
> (408)356-8506      |is there are so many to choose| 16345 Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com |from.   - Andrew Tanenbaum    | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>
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Re: new computer advice suggestions for using with a K3

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
In reply to this post by Richard E Neese
I love the Via C7 "Eden" processor, but unless you have one around to
test, I wouldn't buy one for this application without doing a lot of
testing.

Why?  Floating Point performance is lousy, and I think that'll show with
fldigi and other digital mode software.

Look to the Intel Atom CPUs for good floating point and a low-power
processor.

I use the C7 in routers and servers that don't do anything beyond
integer math.  They're incredibly good.

On 8/12/2013 7:00 AM, Richard Neese wrote:

> http://www.ewayco.com/ 
> <http://www.ewayco.com/51-embedded-systems-100-PC-mini-ITX-low-cost/11-tk-800mhz-low-cost-pc-embedded-system.html>
>
>
>  R.Neese KB3VGW
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